Making tactical lights waterproof?

fivebyfive

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Okay, I understand surefire and streamlight make mostly tactical lights and make them mainly for law enforcement and military applications. What I don't understand is why these $30(surefire G2) through $300(surfire m6) aren't at least waterproof? I mean, I own a surefire Z3($65) and the best it can do is "water resistant". I'm sure a $20 mag-lite can do better than a $60 surefire when it comes to waterproofness. Yes, I know the surefire 6N is waterproof, but these are expensive lights that should do better in wet conditions than other least expensive lights. With that in mind, has anyone modded any of their lights to make them waterproof? Thanks.
 

paulr

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Mags are not very waterproof either. If you want a waterproof light, get a dive light.
 

OddOne

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I have a dead 3D Mag here that is proof of the absence of waterproofness in Mags. It was dropped in knee-deep water and that was all she wrote.

oO
 

Double_A

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I turned my minimag on and took it with me an an 18 inch deep kiddie pool, five minutes later it was filled water.

Would water resistance depth would you like?

You see if they said "waterproof" and someone took it down to 100 feet as a dive light and it leaked some jacka$$ would sue them. The FTC have very stringent restrictions on the word "waterproof"

Unless I made a dive light I would NEVER use the word "waterproof"

GregR
 

Joe Talmadge

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At minimum, you should be able to take the light in a drenching rain, or accidently drop it in a puddle, and have it survive. I'd say water resistance to at least a foot or two should be a minimum standard.
 

Double_A

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Joe-

I agree and would go a bit further.

I think all of these lights ought to survive a dunk at swimming/diving pool depths, say 15 feet (about 5 meters)

GregR
 

Size15's

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SureFires are designed to be certified waterproof if required. Noteworthy exceptions are the Rechargeable models, and the stock G2.

When SureFire gives a waterproof rating, it means that individual flashlight has been physically tested to earn the "N" Navy designation.

Al
 

dougmccoy

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The physical design of any Surefire except the rechargeables and G2's (as per Al's description) are theoretically designed to resist the ingress of water. The siting of 'O'rings and bezels seals are proof that Surefire has attempted to think through where water will enter and do something to avoid it.Unfortunately quality control has not yet evolved to the point where individual production line tolerances are so uniform that all surefire products are capable of being certified waterproof.
This is where the 'N'rating comes in. Individual lights are exposed to pressure testing to eliminate those units which are not up to the highest QC standards.
Unfortunately the failures doing this cost the company money and so you have to pay a premium price for the term 'N' certified.
Me, well I make sure that everything is lubed correctly and trust in fate (and the Surefire Guarantee)to ensure that my lights are at least weatherproof!

Doug
 

outlaw918692000

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Think of it this way. How many people spend $200 to $400 on a cell phone are they waterproof ? Yet they are EDC and no one is jumping up and down about it. If you want waterproof, buy a dive light. If on the other hand if you want a tough reliable light buy a surefire. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif
 

Joe Talmadge

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On the other hand, no one is selling tactical cell phones. You want to sell a phone -- or a light -- and claim it's suitable for tactical use, you should make sure ensure the light can withstand the challenges it's sure to face. Unless someone can guarantee me that it never rains and there are never puddles when a police officer, soldier, or civilian defending his home might use the light, it should be waterproof to a foot or two, period. I do agree that any deeper requirements than that are beyond what's reasonable (though perhaps still nice to have).

Joe
 

fivebyfive

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Good point made by Joe. I want to clarify the points I'm trying to make in my original post.

1) We have paid more for these "tactical lights" than the average flashlight, so shouldn't we expect a feature such as waterproofness to be standard on them?

2)Has anyone modded their tactical lights to be waterproof?

As a reminder, I do own a surefire Z3 combat light and just recently bought the KL3 for it. So I do like surefires. This post is about what we should expect as "consumers" of products that we all have paid a lot for. I don't want to turn this post into a "surefire sucks" post. This isn't my intention.
 

Rothrandir

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i'm a litte late to the game, and my head hurts too bad to read all of what's already here, but from what i can see of my e2e (not sure about other models), it seems that with a few changes the waterproofness could be improved.
maybe there are issues i'm not aware of that have been considered by sf, but maybe not /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 

paulr

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I don't know about tactical cell phones, but there are certainly tactical 2-way radios, and generally speaking they are not waterproof. Splash resistant, yes, but so are the SF flashlights. Neither is designed for diving.
 

d_clark

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Don't forget ARC.

From the Faq page :

Arc LS 50 feet water proof
Arc AAA Waterproof to 50 feet (tested 100% to 340 feet)
Arc AA Waterproof to 50 feet

Edited to add the AA.
 

paulr

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I'm really skeptical that the Kroll boot on the Arc LS can keep out 50 feet of water reliably.
 

chamenos

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paulr: apparently peter gransee sent the lights for testing, and those were the results he got. the arc LSH i had never leaked /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

with regards to surefires, as dougmccoy pointed out, they definitely are designed to be waterproof. its QC issues that cause the occasional light off the shelf to leak. in the event that happens, surefire will replace the defective part and other components that might have been damaged as a result of the leak.

of course, one's expectation of the water-resistance a non-dive light should be within reason. my C2, A2, G2Z, and the M3 and 6P i used to have all went to at least 2 feet of water for a few hours without leaking (i test all my lights for water-resistance). my C2 even went through a full cycle in the washing machine without leaking one drop. i did have an M2 and E2e that had leaking bezels, but they were replaced free of charge by surefire. surefires are definitely designed to be more water resistant than maglites. i've found mini maglites to be pretty water resistant, and the D and C cell maglites resist rain fine (they tend to leak through the switch seal if submerged).
 

Deanster

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I've been posting on this issue a fair bit lately, so I'll keep it brief. My problem is that I have no idea what to expect from my Surefires around the water - is mine a little water resistant, a lot water resistant, or will it die after 5 seconds in a puddle?

I'll carry Pelican, UKE, Arc, or several other quality lights without concern, but I never carry a Surefire near the water or on our boat without another light in my pocket, as I just don't know if I can count on the Surefire.

Great lights, but this seems like an easily fixable flaw. The electronics industry often uses the IPX7 standard for submersible equipment - it should function for 30 minutes submerged to 1 meter - I'd love to be able to count on my Surefires for this level of function.
 

Rothrandir

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paul, the krolls provide a remarkable seal.
not only is the inside protected (as with an oring), but the kroll being rubber, it protects around the top of the lip also.
 

chamenos

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deanster: what i do is test all my surefires for water-resistance before actually using them. that way i would dare to use them without fearing a leak /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif simply remove the batteries and lamps, and submerge the lights in a pail or basin for as long as you'd like. if water leaks in through any of the O-ring seals, a simple cleaning and lubing (or removal or excess lube) would fix the problem. if it leaks through the lens seal on the bezel, then you'll have to contact surefire for a replacement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Lithead

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I guess I'm off to dunk my lights in the bathtub.

Tho I want them to function at the bottom of a normal (10-12') swimming pool.

When I asked the Surefire guys about the "N" option two years ago they said "huh?" Always thought it was for military contracts only.
 
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