Firefly and Moonbeam Party. High intensity is not welcome.

Insomnia hit. I finally got up at 3am and there was nothing for it.

It's flashlight time.

I finally put my 9v Paklite through its paces on high and low mode (I have the GITD variant.) It compared quite favorably to my 1.2v-3.7v P60 ultra-low 3-mode in a plastic ultra-budget AAx2 China host ($1.50.) That thing can't be pushing more than 10 lumens on high. To use its low mode, I need pitch-black and a good 30 minutes for my eyes to adjust.

I have an old low-tech cool-white, non-ir, non-UV showerhead 5mmx21 "Special Forces" flashlight (yes, I'm slightly gagging at the name when typing this) that actually stood the runtime, firefly, and vampire challenge. I spent the night feeding it different combinations of "dead batteries." It easily defeated a Nebo Redline on low-mode when it used both nimh rechargables and alkie primaries. This was a surprise. I even took the batteries out of the Redline once it crapped-out and put them in the "SF" flashlight. They proceeded to then run in firefly/moonbeam until the end of the test (approximately sometime 5ish. I wasn't paying close attention.) Apparently, once the Nebo RL drops out of regulation... that's about it. No fangs at all in that driver style, it seems. Nebo Redline versus 5mmx21 "SF" showerhead light in a vampire firefly contest? The Nebo lost hard.

My several gens and releases of the Fenix PD-20 laughed along all night in a high quality fashion on 10 lumen low mode. I have 3 of them of varying age. Factory specs tend to mostly claim 50+ hours on low mode with cr123x1 primary, across the gens. I completely lit one room with white ceiling bounce for the three of them. Yes, they have gotten progressively brighter. The current PD-20 is better than what you used to be able to get. Anyway, this was the brightest light of the test.

I also compared with a SIMDx3 6v "automotive bulb" (please autolight Scheinwerferman, don't have me banned) powered by alkie AAAx4 in a radio-shack (made in China) enclosure. Man, that 180 degree vampiric-mule goodness was a sight to behold. In the indoor pitch-black, you're easily getting 20 feet of 180 degrees of cool white. You see everything. My only complaint is the tint. You can actually carve out the enclosure to take the smallest base 12V SIMD "auto bulbs" under 3.7v lithium ions while still using 4 cells. I've had good luck "overdriving" both 12v and 6v -rated micro LED bulbs. Several of my past (and those of others) have sacrificed a cell for internal electrics. I just wouldn't use them in a car for safety-related lighting. Anyway, this thing ate dead batteries with ease... it just smoothly dims. I love those tiny BA-base bulbs for a home made light when you're stacking 4 cells. No Joule Thief to test.

I guess I had a good time. Non-flashy people think I'm weird for playing with flashlights. These are the same people that go driving during a power outage to find D-alkies to power ancient incans. I'm betting my worst flashlight is better than their best.

Anyway, ITT we post and talk about our best low mode lights. We're talking runtime, we're talking vampires. We're talking lights that run off of "dead" smoke alarm batteries.

I fully expect Reppans to weigh in.

TL;DR, it was a low-mode dead-battery-swap moonbeam/firefly party.

Sorry this post needed so many edits. I was sleep deprived.

My original Solitaire should be just fine in firefly mode...!

I only have a single light with a true moonlight mode. Unfortunately it only uses 2X protected 18650s in parallel, so it's not like it can just use any battery.

I`m overstuffed with moonlight mode lights...5 and one more on the way. One thing I don`t care for are lights that give you a moonlight mode...then give you 4 or 5 lumen for a low. A waste in my opinion. In a 4 mode light, next one up from moon needs to be at least 10 lumen...30 better...my opinion anyways.

I've got a couple of Milky Candles and a few Joule Thief lanterns which run on otherwise 'dead' cells, and suck them truly dry. The Milky's eat Lithium and the JT's eat alkaline. I don't know if they have any lumens at all, but they have a nice glow.

Does a Zebralight SC52 and 52w fit in this party?

argleargle said:

I guess I had a good time. Non-flashy people think I'm weird for playing with flashlights. These are the same people that go driving during a power outage to find D-alkies to power ancient incans. I'm betting my worst flashlight is better than their best.

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Let me start by saying that I'm 56 years old. So 46 years ago if I had owned a flashlight that could do what my Fenix PD22 can accomplish just on low, people would have been stunned.

Think is, lots of people are still using lights that are only marginally better performance wise than what I had 46 years ago. Sure they might be LED lights, but honestly there are a lot of crappy LED flashlights out there. Lights that provide 30 lumen for 90 minutes using 9 LEDS And people think that they have something fantastic.

Like most people I started going for lumens and throw. 190lm, then 280, then 335, then 400, then 740.

Lately I've been collecting lights that support the lower power settings. Turn on Fenix on a 10 lumen setting in a movie theater and it looks like one of the spotlights over London during WWII.

I tried out a sub-lumen light and while I could navigate at night in the house, that was about all I could do with it. For me the sweet spot seems to be between 1-4 lumens. In the past 2 months I picked up a 47's Mini-ML gen 2(3.6 lm); a 47's Quark QTLC gen 2(0.25/4.8 lms); a iTP A2 EOS (1.5 lm) and I just ordered a Zebralight SC52W (0.01/0.06/0.34/2.7 lms).

If my eyes were 20 years younger I would probably appreciate the sub-lumen modes a lot more. Inside the house I use the single digit setting most of the time, and when outside I like the 8-18 range that many if these lights offer.

Mostly I just use the higher range modes 100+ when I'm bored and just playing around with the light.

argleargle said:

I fully expect Reppans to weigh in.

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Hmmm, not sure what to say given such a broad subject, other than my own individual preferences.

I have about a dozen different sub-lumen lights and find I prefer the "brightish" moonlights around 0.3-0.5 lumens which are bright enough to be usable as my normal "low" modes with dark-adapted eyes, and I feel just about perfect for book reading, and close task work, and my personal favorite, will run ~200 hrs on an Alk, NiMh or 14500 (did I mention I'm a runtime freak?). I like floody XML emitters in small EDC flashlights which have large, low lux hotspots that don't blow your night vision too much. Course NW is preferred, but nice CWs are fine too - definitely rather have the right lumen level, than the right tint, when it comes to sub-lumen modes.

Quark AA-Xs and D25A-Xs (2012) hit the sweetspot for me with 0.3 lms (from my light meter) and ~ 200 hrs/AA. I have a D40A 1,000 lumen thrower with a 0.8 moonlight mode - it's too focused and bright to use the beam directly, but it makes a great lantern on moonlight and low with my DIY diffuser and will run ~ 500/50 hrs respectively. I tried a 4-mode L10 N219 but it measured 0.04 lumens and so went for the 3-mode instead - this light is very efficient, but the durability of the sponge spring bugs me. The Thrunite T10 wins my value award, although its firefly mode (I measure at 0.13 lms) is about as low I care to go on moonlight.

Interestingly my ZL's (the CPF sub-lumen favorite) have been the most disappointing lights for me. I have a 1st Gen H51w spec'd at 0.2 lms (which measures a very nice 0.25 lumens) but its PWM is so slow it gives me a headache. I was really looking forward to my SC52 spec'd at 0.34 lms, but find it meters at a useless-for-me 0.08 lumens (least I understand how ZL gets 3x the runtime as the Quark and D25) - I appreciate some folks like dimmer moonlight modes, but to have three choices below 0.1 lumens doesn't make any sense. ZL also continues to claim its 1.5v lights will perform as well as my 3v lights - it doesn't come close (measuring with a light meter and stopwatch) and further adds to my disappoint, along with its warranty and customer service policies. I guess I just ain't a ZL guy.

donn_ said:

I've got a couple of Milky Candles and a few Joule Thief lanterns which run on otherwise 'dead' cells, and suck them truly dry. The Milky's eat Lithium and the JT's eat alkaline. I don't know if they have any lumens at all, but they have a nice glow.

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Hey, thanks for mentioning the Milky Candle! Somehow I'd missed that one. If anyone else hasn't heard of it, just search CPF or Google.
Review here: http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/fifteen/milky.htm
Neat! Since I seem to have missed out on the MC 2, I can't wait for the Milky Candle MC3! Someone PM me if I miss it!

reppans said:

and my personal favorite, will run ~200 hrs on an Alk, NiMh or 14500 (did I mention I'm a runtime freak?).

I have a D40A 1,000 lumen thrower with a 0.8 moonlight mode - it's too focused and bright to use the beam directly, but it makes a great lantern on moonlight and low with my DIY diffuser and will run ~ 500/50 hrs respectively.

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So is the Sunway D40A is your favorite? What's the one you were talking about first with the 200hr runtime and takes alkie, nimh, and lion? That sounds really cool. I'm in the market for vampires and super-long-runtimes at the moment.

Anyone with any thoughts on the lowest modes of the Armytek Predator and Viking series? I've been giving them the eye as well, but understand that you should top up rechargable lithium ion cells and not totally vamp them down to nothing (or cutoff, whicher happens first.)

argleargle said:

So is the Sunway D40A is your favorite? What's the one you were talking about first with the 200hr runtime and takes alkie, nimh, and lion? That sounds really cool. I'm in the market for vampires and super-long-runtimes at the moment.

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No, sorry if I was unclear, my favorite is the Quark AA2-X (QP2A-X) run on an optional 1xAA tube run with a 14500, 3v CRAA Lithium Primary, or Eneloop... this gives me an honest useable 0.3 lm moonlight with ~200 hr runtime.... I have other battery tubes as well and so can lego 2xAA, 1xCR123/16340 and 1x17670s. If you don't mind 1/4 the moonlight lumens, the Zebralight SC52 will probably run ~500 hrs on an Alk, NiMh or 14500 on its "0.34" lumen mode.... and probable much longer with its even dimmer modes.

The D40A is a large 4xAA power thrower and falls into the fun/toy category for me.

I've tested these lights with a light meter and stopwatch watch, and find them more or less equally efficient on a lumen hour basis, it just depends on which "formula" you like the best.

That's really weird on the Foursevens site how they say that the currently available Quark Pro XP-G2 head gen 2 has a 720 hour max firefly runtime on AAx2 and the Quark Pro XM-L2 "X" head has a 360 hour max AAx2 runtime... but they both have the same output on low mode?

Weird... Typo? I almost pulled the trigger on the non "X" head with all of the body tubes, but I think I need to read more now.

argleargle said:

That's really weird on the Foursevens site how they say that the currently available Quark Pro XP-G2 head gen 2 has a 720 hour max firefly runtime on AAx2 and the Quark Pro XM-L2 "X" head has a 360 hour max AAx2 runtime... but they both have the same output on low mode?

Weird... Typo? I almost pulled the trigger on the non "X" head with all of the body tubes, but I think I need to read more now.

Click to expand...

Different drivers?

FWIW, there's a typo on their site - the X's summary chart says "0.2" while the detail specs say "0.3". I have an XPG-S2 and a few XML (v1s) and measure the moonlight's to be 0.17 lms and 0.33 lms, respectively. I've also run a side-by-side runtime test on a AAAA (from a 9v) and got 100 hrs and 50 hrs respectively (about 400 hrs and 200 hrs on AA equivalent). So I believe it's about double the output and half the runtime on moonlight (equal efficiency on a lumen-hour basis). Lastly, I believe 47s has gotten a bit more conservative with the more recent releases of its XML lights... you might want to check out the user runtime testimonial thread HERE.

Lastly, I believe the XPGs use an older driver which have greater risks of high-output pre-flash and long reset times on high voltage cells (some potential Quark "quirks").

Here's some of my sub-lumen lights, and the measurements I took (shown in B&W to eliminate tint differences, L to R):

QAAXML - 0.33
QAAXPGS2 - 0.17
TN T10 - 0.13
SC52 - 0.08 (0.34 mode)
QAAXML NW - 0.33
D25AXML NW- 0.33
H51W - 0.25

The spill is the best indicator of brightness as that's illumination straight off the emitter, and not impacted by the reflector - all the hotspots (except the SC52) are overexposed and cannot express relative brightness accurately in this photo.

I have several. A pair of Firefly Thrunite Ti's; a Quark-X AA2 Tactical Neutral with 1xCR123 body; D25C Neutral XM-L; NB/Joule-Thief 219 P60 in an L2M; HDS HiCRI Executive EDC Clicky.
I haven't done direct comparisons, but some are certainly brighter in moonlight than others.
The D25C I've used as a night light on several occasions. With some use at med and med-hi, but 8-10 hours on moon, it runs about a week on a single CR123A.
The JouleThief had an old battery in it, but still put out significant output. I left it on overnight just last week, and when I got up there was no output. I compared it to the D25 and HDS, and shined it right in my eye, to make sure it wasn't just overwhelmed by the (early morning) ambient light. There was NOTHING. I thought it would have run, dimmer, for a lot longer. It drained the SF CR123 down to 1/2 a volt, though.
I've never killed a battery in the HDS or Quark. By the time they won't give me medium-low, I replace the battery because, as much as I value a moonlight mode, it my environment it doesn't do me much good as my only mode.

A heartfelt and sincere THANK YOU to everyone so far at the Firefly and Moonbeam party! This is the GOOD STUFF!

Funny, knowledgeable, and informative... This is the best of the Internet.

if you can't learn about the Power of the Dark Side (long runtime low mode) here, you're not even trying. Love it!

So anyway, I hooked 18 obsolete red 5mm led in a shower head config to an 18ah lithium power tool battery and was not dissappointed. When the power outage hits, it's one of my go-to lights. It's unusual in that I've never fully discharged the battery! Of course my new Paklite 9v also now has that distinction.

The 18v red shower head also acts as a gooseneck lamp due to the thick wires and the fact that most power tool batteries will naturally tail stand.

My quark turbo sits on my nightstand in moonlight mode next to my sig 229 stainless 40s&w for things that go bump in the night. Moonlight mode is perfect for tactical situations where I can use momentary on to spot check before punching holes...

i love moonlight mode.
I'm still on the hunt for a aaa light with moonlight mode and a tail click...

Which light is that? Sounds perfect to me. A moonlight mode and a 3 lumen HIGH is all I usually use anyways.

Badbeams3 said:

I`m overstuffed with moonlight mode lights...5 and one more on the way. One thing I don`t care for are lights that give you a moonlight mode...then give you 4 or 5 lumen for a low. A waste in my opinion. In a 4 mode light, next one up from moon needs to be at least 10 lumen...30 better...my opinion anyways.

Click to expand...

Liteflux LF2XT



You'll thank me later!

LightOnAHill said:

i love moonlight mode.
I'm still on the hunt for a aaa light with moonlight mode and a tail click...

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My best low light long run time lights I can deploy are the tritium vials I got from Mercava.

During the day...I can't even tell they are glowing. If the one on my keychain is on the nightstand...at 3 am, I can see the soft glow lighting up the room, casting shadows of the stuff on the nightstand onto the wall behind it and the ceiling, etc.

It will run for decades at that level, with no cells, no charging, etc.