No runtime races?

Seems there is a never ending lumens race among flashlight manufacturers. Why is there no runtime race? Is that next? For small handheld lights, how much more power do we really need. I get that runtime isn't as sexy as raw power, but for many daily users, runtime seems more important. At least to me it does. I want to see a 100 lumen 2AA light with 10 hrs runtime. Now that would be sexy. It seems with the increasing efficiency of LED technology, this should be possible. I know they have this in CR123 lights, but I would like I see those at 100 lumens for 20-25 hours. What do you guys think?

I don't think you'll be seeing efficiency like that any time soon, at least not if your looking for flat regulation. I did a few runtime tests on my HDS when I had it and I was getting about 2 hours and 15 minutes on a single cr123 at the 85 lumen setting and I believe that's considered very good. Newer LEDs are more efficient but not by that much more.

The Malkoff m61ll gets 80 regulated lumens for 10 hrs on 2 cr123's with longer runtime unregulated after that. Not too far fetched. Just thinking that if the focus shifted to efficiency over power, we could see longer and longer run times. The surefire e2l gets 125 lumens for 7 hrs.

That's true. It will even run longer with a MD3 and 3 cr123s. An MD4 with two 18650s and the same dropin gets you even closer. The SF lights runtime rates are generally until they reach 10% output, although not in all cases. It all depends on various factors such as power source and measurement method.

surefire's E2L-AA and its newer model E2LA-AA gives you around 100 lumens for about 10 hours using 2 lithium AA. and it also gives you around 90 hours of runtime on low.

100 lumens for 25 hours would be very nice:thumbsup:
the lower output malkoff modules, although not design for 2xAA batteries runs fine with them.

Fenix claims the PD22 with xpg2 will run 105 lumens for 5 hours but I dont know if it steps down or not. The Fenix PD32 xpg2 is rated 70 lumens for about 14 hours and 135 lumens for about 8 hours but that's probably on a 18650 and I don't know if there is any step down in output.

I guess with most people, lumen number sells. Maybe until the day where LEDs could be efficient enough you will probably never see a light running 100 lumens for 25 hours on a CR123, and even if so the manufacturers would probably max out the output rather than offer a longer run time all because lumen output sells. But I hear you. I love lights that offer long runtimes and would definitely purchase one if available.

pjandyho said:

I guess with most people, lumen number sells. Maybe until the day where LEDs could be efficient enough you will probably never see a light running 100 lumens for 25 hours on a CR123, and even if so the manufacturers would probably max out the output rather than offer a longer run time all because lumen output sells. But I hear you. I love lights that offer long runtimes and would definitely purchase one if available.

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See. That's what I'm talking about. A lot of people that use their flashlights daily would benefit from increased runtime over increased brightness. For most the 65 lumen 6P was the cat's meow for almost everything. Even I we could just see 65 lumens in a 2 cr123 light with 25 hrs runtime that would be fantastic.

My next light will most likely be the MD2 with the m61wll in it. Simple 1 mode with enough light with good runtime. But I would like to see even longer runtimes. 5 years ago a 320 lumen 6PX with 2.5 hrs runtime would have seemed insane.

I really thing there is a market available for such a light with daily users. Especially the cost savings. You could run primaries without killing your bank account and reap the safety benefits without worrying so much about battery safety etc.

I like modern lights for their runtime, not high output. Due to the logarthmetic way we perceive light, doubling perceived brightness means ~ quarter the runtime; but by the same token, halving the perceived brightness will get you ~ 4x the runtime (laws of diminishing returns vs increasing gains). One of the reasons I've become a low-lumen/sub-lumen fan.

Sadly, after starting to test my lights with a light meter and stopwatch, I find manufacturer "ANSI" marketing specs to differ (lumen-hours efficiency) by about a factor of 2x for what are equally efficient lights, between the conservative and liberal manufacturers (incl a CPF favorite brand). The ANSI interpretations are wide enough to drive a truck through - you either have overlay Selfbuilt's output/runtime graphs (if he's even tested a light), or test them yourself to know the truth.

Food for thought, in multi mode lights, today's mediums are the same output as yesterday's highs, but you're getting so much more runtime.....

SoldMyHat said:

I want to see a 100 lumen 2AA light with 10 hrs runtime. Now that would be sexy. It seems with the increasing efficiency of LED technology, this should be possible. I know they have this in CR123 lights, but I would like I see those at 100 lumens for 20-25 hours. What do you guys think?

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Jetbeam claims that their SA10 will run 11 hours on ONE AA when set at 100 lumens. . . . I would love to see someone buy that light and do a real run time (100%->50% lumen) test on it. Lets just say I'm a bit suspicious of Jetbeams claim unless they are measuring the run time between 100 lumens -> 0 lumens. . .

defloyd77 said:

Food for thought, in multi mode lights, today's mediums are the same output as yesterday's highs, but you're getting so much more runtime.....

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I'm a happy flashaholic.

defloyd77 said:

Food for thought, in multi mode lights, today's mediums are the same output as yesterday's highs, but you're getting so much more runtime.....

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Yup!

Fenix TK15 "turbo mode" 337 lumen for 1:50 OR Fenix PD32 "turbo mode" 315 lumen for 2:00

And just a year or two later

Fenix PD32UE in Medium is 400 lumen for 2:40 and the PD35 is 450 lumen for 2:30

Using Fenix because they use the ANSI standard and measure all their lights the same way. . .

wjv said:

Yup!

Fenix TK15 "turbo mode" 337 lumen for 1:50 OR Fenix PD32 "turbo mode" 315 lumen for 2:00

And just a year or two later

Fenix PD32UE in Medium is 400 lumen for 2:40 and the PD35 is 450 lumen for 2:30

Using Fenix because they use the ANSI standard and measure all their lights the same way. . .

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I think the PD35 runs 450 lumens for 30 minutes then steps down to the next lowest level, it will not run 450 lumens for 2:30. I think the PD32's do the same.

LightWalker said:

I think the PD35 runs 450 lumens for 30 minutes then steps down to the next lowest level, it will not run 450 lumens for 2:30. I think the PD32's do the same.

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Yes, but Fenix quotes accumulated time.

So if you shut it off and turn it back on, it goes back to turbo brightness.

wjv said:

Yes, but Fenix quotes accumulated time.

So if you shut it off and turn it back on, it goes back to turbo brightness.

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But will it run at 450 lumens for 2:30 if you don't let it step down?

LightWalker said:

But will it run at 450 lumens for 2:30 if you don't let it step down?

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That's the claim. . Accumulate time, 30 minutes at a time. . .

wjv said:

That's the claim. . Accumulate time, 30 minutes at a time. . .

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Ok, so the 850 mode runtime is the only mode that is not accumulated?

defloyd77 said:

Food for thought, in multi mode lights, today's mediums are the same output as yesterday's highs, but you're getting so much more runtime.....

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Agreed big time. All those lights from a few years back where you were getting say 150-250 lumens on an 18650 for 90-120 minutes and people were generally quite happy with that. Now you have a choice of getting twice or more output for similar runtimes or keeping that ~200 lumen output for way longer. Take my Armytek Predator for example, you can now have 200 throwey lumens for 6 hours. Or take the newest iTP A3 with XP-G2 and non-PWM driver. You can have near 20 lumens for 8+ hours, on a single AAA. That is a very long runtime of usable light for such a tiny cell.

What you are really getting now is more choice. You can have super high output for an hour if you like, or you can have a very useful medium (that is in line with older max settings) and get way more runtime. Current lights usually are capable of much more than we really need for most work. Though I admit I am bad for using max modes when I don't really need it, though I understand the need to dial back if I need the long runtime.

wjv said:

That's the claim. . Accumulate time, 30 minutes at a time. . .

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I found a graph showing accumulated runtime for the PD32UE at http://www.fenixlight.com/ProductexperienceMore.aspx?id=8&cid=2