Light does not contain an XM-L2!

Hi Collective!

Keeping this hypothetical for now, as am giving the manufacturer a chance to explain or put right.

However - a light claims to be an XM-L2'er - but upon opening it, the LED, which is sitting on a copper base with a white layer above, has writing in black on a white base, with XM-L written under the LED. It has something else written on the other 90-degree side - but I think that gives the name away.

What would you do - how scandalous is this?

I'm hoping that it's a dodgy batch with the wrong LED - rather than an out-&-out attempt to cash in on XM-L2 'upgraditis' by selling a light only claiming to have that in it.

I note an Eagletac thread citing a similar issue - but is this a completely toys-out-of-pram demand-ten-free-lights in compensation affair? Or do we have to accept that 'Eastern' lights may well be made and described according to the ethics sometimes associated with that sector of the world.

This is supposed to be one of the more highly-regarded brands in the scheme of things.


And please - no posts trying to guess which brand, I need to keep their slate 100% clean until they prove to fail to address the issue.


Arif

If the LED PCB (base) is green it's an XM-L. XM-L2's are silver.

Can you tell?

Ah - perfect! Indeed I can sir - it's silver! So there was nothing untoward going on at all.

And I've only just logged in now to add that I've just taken apart a Jetbeam PA10 to see the difference - and there is what you describe (green base), and also the 'striped' effect on what would be the XM-L's die-surface.

I know it's super-anal for a customer to take apart a light to see the truth or otherwise of stated claims - but I only noticed incidentally to taking it apart for other reasons!

I can now also get off the fence and say that it was a Klarus ST11 - and I should've trusted them, shouldn't I!!??


Thank you buddy for a rapid and extremely useful response - exactly what I was after.

I can now also retract my 'Feedback' e-mail to my dealer (I wanted the dealer to take it up with Klarus, I didn't blame the dealer).

Very almost-silly though that you have a label on an emitter, but it doesn't say what it 'should'. Anyhoo - that's between Cree and their clients. Nothing untoward going on at all.


Arif

No worries, but your fears where misguided...

Why not just post a pic of the emitter, asking what it was, rather than posting innuendous slander? This all seems a bit unnecessary to me.

mvyrmnd said:

Why not just post a pic of the emitter, asking what it was, rather than posting innuendous slander? This all seems a bit unnecessary to me.

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How on Earth do you decide that something pitched in COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS terms can even remotely amount to 'slander' (notwithstanding the fact that it is libel you mean, not slander)??!!

Further - I have never figured out how to post pictures on any forum, given the circuitous means of having to do so ('hosted elsewhere').

I 'bet' based on the visible label that it was a fair chance that the emitter was an XM-L, hence the rest of the post being about how 'bad' this might be.

ledmitter_nli said:

No worries, but your fears where misguided...

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They were indeed sir - and many thanks again for your rapid and erudite response.

Just as an FYI, I think that the "proper" parts-code(s) for the XM-L2 are " XMLB .... "

I would bet that they used an XML star since they are an exact match. Is there such think as an XM-L2 star anyway? I just bought a bunch of XM-L2 emitters and XML sinkpads, so my lights will display the same inconsistency!

Remember that the metal PCB which the LED is attached to isn't actually part of the emitter, but something which the emitter is reflowed onto by the manufacturer. PCBs are often marked with what type of emitter they will accomodate, but you will often find them marked with what was available at the time that they were manufactured. The writing on the PCB is therefore no guarantee of what the emitter actually is, you may even find Nichia 219s soldered onto PCBs marked XP-E, as they have the same size 'footprint'.

Arif,
like mentioned before,look at the base of the diod on your flashlight. If the base is silver it is a XM-L2 LED. If it´s green,it is a XM-L LED.


XM-L2 LED.


XM-L LED.

You can compare your flashlight with the pictures,then you will know for sure which diod you have. In some cases when flashlight companies upgrades the diods there might be a misstake selling an old version but label it as an upgraded one.This has not yet happened to me,but it could happen. If so,then you can return your flashlight and you will receive an upgraded one.

NorthernStar said:

like mentioned before,look at the base of the diod on your flashlight. If the base is silver it is a XM-L2 LED. If it´s green,it is a XM-L LED.

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Nice explanation and an easy way for lay people like me, to tell whats what

ledmitter_nli said:

No worries, but your fears where misguided...

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Unfounded, yes..... misguided, no. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-L2-But-looks-like-I-got-the-older-XM-L-model

It seems there has been at least one case of an XM-L being sold as an XM-L2, so it's certainly not unjustified to question which emitter is actually being used. I'm glad that in this threads case it turned out to be as advertised.

RedForest UK said:

Remember that the metal PCB which the LED is attached to isn't actually part of the emitter, but something which the emitter is reflowed onto by the manufacturer. PCBs are often marked with what type of emitter they will accomodate, but you will often find them marked with what was available at the time that they were manufactured. The writing on the PCB is therefore no guarantee of what the emitter actually is, you may even find Nichia 219s soldered onto PCBs marked XP-E, as they have the same size 'footprint'.

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A fantastic explanation for something otherwise completely inexplicable! Completely explains why I saw what I saw.

schizeckinosy said:

I would bet that they used an XML star since they are an exact match. Is there such think as an XM-L2 star anyway? I just bought a bunch of XM-L2 emitters and XML sinkpads, so my lights will display the same inconsistency!

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What's this 'star' thing then?! If you mean the collar that sits around the dome, and which then helps centralise the neck of the reflector - then for me it wasn't the same object.

The XM-L 'star' as used by Nitecore in the P25 for example, leaves the PCB exposed, such that you can determine that it's green.

The 'star' as used by Klarus on the ST11 - completely covers the PCB - such that without taking the light apart (which in my case I did), all you've got to go by is the dome itself. That's slightly ironic, given that Cree clearly silverised the PCB given that it was often exposed and therefore played a 'role' in the reflector (increasing reflectance).

In hindsight though - that's just about enough to tell the difference, given the visibility of the 'connections' in the die, and the 'stripes' in the older XM-L.

The board color is hard to see on some lights because it is covered. Easiest way to determine XM-L2 is to count the bond wires. XM-L has 3. XM-L2 has 2 wires.

Arif said:

What's this 'star' thing then?!

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I think he meant the MCPCB itself. Often the shape of a 20mm PCB is a star, this was especially true a few years back. So the word 'star' became somewhat synonymous with PCB even though they aren't always star-shaped.

Another way to differentiate between an XM-L and XM-L2 (if other methods are not feasible) is to take a REALLY close look at the emitter itself. This may require a magnifying glass. Anyway, if the emitter looks like it has six segments, it's an XM-L. If it's unsegmented (ie just a solid square), it's an XM-L2.

StorminMatt said:

Another way to differentiate between an XM-L and XM-L2 (if other methods are not feasible) is to take a REALLY close look at the emitter itself. This may require a magnifying glass. Anyway, if the emitter looks like it has six segments, it's an XM-L. If it's unsegmented (ie just a solid square), it's an XM-L2.

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Good eye, you can kind of see that in the pics above by NorthernStar.

Arif said:

How on Earth do you decide that something pitched in COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS terms can even remotely amount to 'slander' (notwithstanding the fact that it is libel you mean, not slander)??!!

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I believe the reference may have been to this ignorant remark:

Arif said:

Or do we have to accept that 'Eastern' lights may well be made and described according to the ethics sometimes associated with that sector of the world.

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It wasn't necessary and is kind of ironic as I bet you own a ton of products, which you're happy with, from this so called "Eastern" part of the world which is apparently so shady.

As soon as you have an issue, borderline racism is acceptable?