MBI #4 - Get Ready to meet Zeus™

[sticktodrum]

I have to ask... Have you thought about a 16340 light?

Not that I'm already looking for it, but I'm sure you're thinking way ahead anyway. Couldn't hurt to ask.

A Zeus X would likely be my perfect light. That is, if the Torp doesn't already do that for me. I'm already imagining the email updates for the Zeus X preorders and whatever mindnumbingly awesome extravaganza awaits.

[mcbrat]

I have to ask... Have you thought about a 16340 light?

Not that I'm already looking for it, but I'm sure you're thinking way ahead anyway. Couldn't hurt to ask.

A Zeus X would likely be my perfect light. That is, if the Torp doesn't already do that for me. I'm already imagining the email updates for the Zeus X preorders and whatever mindnumbingly awesome extravaganza awaits.

+1

[think2x]

Very nice, it's in my wish list. Subscribed and off to inform my bank account now.

[lensman]

I am going to be all over these. The only unfortunate thing is the timing, but I can always hope... Is there a chance these will make it to production in time for me to buy them as gifts before the end of the year? Then again, maybe the Torpedoes would make better gifts. Hmm...

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Count me in I just ordered and Torpedo Hooah !!!

Thanks xXgenoXx

So the next form factor will be called "Thor"?

_____________________________________
Alan

Hi Alan,
Nop, next up will most likely be the Alien Tech series

I'll take on in SS or Ti!

Thanks Raze

I am in for the Al. Is there no one left I will take the ss.

Thanks very much tino79

I have to ask... Have you thought about a 16340 light?

Not that I'm already looking for it, but I'm sure you're thinking way ahead anyway. Couldn't hurt to ask.

A Zeus X would likely be my perfect light. That is, if the Torp doesn't already do that for me. I'm already imagining the email updates for the Zeus X preorders and whatever mindnumbingly awesome extravaganza awaits.

Hi sticktodrum,
Thanks for the question and feedback
16340 > yes of course, I've thought about it plenty (and then some battery sizes not yet invented).
AA makes sense as my next platform and possibly even battery, as its perhaps the most universally available battery size, but...
Zeus a lot of flexibility, much of which will be covered in the extravaganza subscriber update when the time comes.

+1

Thanks mcbrat

Very nice, it's in my wish list. Subscribed and off to inform my bank account now.

Hi think2x,
Thanks so much and wish you success with your bank account

I am going to be all over these. The only unfortunate thing is the timing, but I can always hope... Is there a chance these will make it to production in time for me to buy them as gifts before the end of the year? Then again, maybe the Torpedoes would make better gifts. Hmm...

Hi lensman,

Thanks very much for the feedback

I'm working mighty hard towards an early December shipping date, but I still need some buy-in and confirmation from various partners in the manufacturing chain as it's a busy time for them and need to be sure they can commit to the timelines.
It's looking like the date is reachable for a version 1 release, so perhaps more a question of which options/configs will make it in time.

Tgwnn

[timbo114]

AA is my fav.
This one looks great ... I'm down for a Copper unit.

[cactux]

IMO it will be nice to have HF, HF-R, Torpedo, and Zeus side by side in table to have a better visibility about their differences. BTW what kind of glass this bb is going to use ?

[Norm]

I'm guilty of not reading every reply in this thread, so forgive me if I'm going over old ground, for me the biggest improvement for this light would be the inclusion of a firefly mode. I currently EDC a three level AA light, my most used modes are high and firefly.

Norm

[the_guy_with_no_name]

AA is my fav.
This one looks great ... I'm down for a Copper unit.

Thanks timbo

IMO it will be nice to have HF, HF-R, Torpedo, and Zeus side by side in table to have a better visibility about their differences. BTW what kind of glass this bb is going to use ?

Hi cactux,

Thanks, its a good idea
HF, HF-R, Torpedo is doable.
Zeus..all in good time.

I'm guilty of not reading every reply in this thread, so forgive me if I'm going over old ground, for me the biggest improvement for this light would be the inclusion of a firefly mode. I currently EDC a three level AA light, my most used modes are high and firefly.

Norm

Hi Norm,
Thanks for posting

Version 1 won't have firefly mode but will be doable as an option/drop-in.

Tgwnn

[cactux]

Do you think that the Zeus target price will be similar to the torpedo? Would you consider a Ti version once the final design is ready?. Beside the firefly mode, what are the big difference and benefits in the Zeus vs the Torpedo? How many lumens are you considering for the low/high modes?
What are the actual dimensions? It will be nice if you use the Greek goods names for your new flashlights ;-)

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Do you think that the Zeus target price will be similar to the torpedo? Would you consider a Ti version once the final design is ready?. Beside the firefly mode, what are the big difference and benefits in the Zeus vs the Torpedo? How many lumens are you considering for the low/high modes?
What are the actual dimensions? It will be nice if you use the Greek goods names for your new flashlights ;-)

Hi cactux,

Thanks for the post and some really good questions

Just a quick mention that I started this thread just a little sooner than planned, to focus & track the discussion in one place and make sure it didn't become the main topic of the other MBI threads, so there are some things I can't give specifics on for perhaps another 2 weeks.

Target price:
When I started working on the Torpedo, I'd been asked that so I set one (a target price).
But since then, I've learned that the price, is the last thing I worry about in my design process and usually the last spec to be calculated.
I focus on making something that I really want myself, and aim to do it at the highest level and quality possible, and after all of it, I have a rough price.

So to be totally honest, I had no target in mind, whatsoever.

As we are quite close and many parts have been worked out, prototyped, I have an idea of range for the moment which will potentially be between $130 - $160 and will depend on final default configs and options.

I hope that's of help.

Ti Version:
100% yes. Its been on the cards from the start of the design.
Because Zeus is larger and there will be options, etc, titanium would have been hard on the machinery and mistakes very costly to start with but once things are firmed down, I'll definitely do a run in titanium, but they will not land till next year.

Benefits of and difference to the Torpedo:
That's a long one but with Zeus the key ones are size, power, runtime, UI, ruggeness, tacticability (if that's a word - meaning configurable for tactical use), Lego-ability.

Lumens:
Not quite ready to offer the details until I get verification on the new circuit PCB/Driver.
On AA (alkaline/Nimh) the power will be lower than with a li-ion which is standard but I found the high mode even with a AA to be very adequate.

Dimensions:
For a AA, Zeus is over engineered to be tough and feel solid in your hand and that makes it on the bigger side of a single AA perhaps in its default config (compared to the smaller ones). I will share more detailed dimensions in the coming weeks (still confirming some final tweaks).

Thanks,
Tgwnn

[cactux]

Thanks a lot Guy for your replay :-).

[sticktodrum]

I'm not sure if you'd thought about it, but since you mentioned lego-abililty, it might be good to have a smaller tailcap in addition to a rear mech clicky for the sake of size. Just a thought, since I've never really been a tail clicky kind of guy.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Thanks a lot Guy for your replay :-).

Hi cactux,

Of course my pleasure and thanks for the great questions.

I'm not sure if you'd thought about it, but since you mentioned lego-abililty, it might be good to have a smaller tailcap in addition to a rear mech clicky for the sake of size. Just a thought, since I've never really been a tail clicky kind of guy.

Hi sticktodrum,
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "rear mech clicky"?
At present, the clicky in the tail is mechanical.

I may offer a smaller tail though in the future for more compact configs.


Lens:
I think the lens was mentioned and I forgot to reply.
Sapphire glass should be doable for production but I'm weighing the advantage of strength over the potential loss in transparency vs ultra clear, toughened, shatter resistant glass which whilst not as strong as sapphire, lets more of the lumens through.

The lens is protected by 2 o-rings and a solid bezel with plenty of buffer to protect the lens, any feedback is welcome of course.

Tgwnn

[DBCstm]

Sapphire is cool for a watch, but where an AR coating is needed it may not be the best way to go. In the smaller form factors especially, since it is so much more difficult to break a glass lens when the diameter is below 30mm or so. The whole purpose of sapphire is it's strength, the property it has to resist scratches. Why bother to put a sensitive easily scratched AR coating on a scratch resistant lens? If an AR coating could be applied to the inside only, then I would say it'd have an advantage. But again, at 20mm or so it's just not going to be likely to break the glass lens. So an UCL AR coated 2 sides lens will allow virtually all of the available light to pass through.

FWIW, an extreme situation that would break a thick small lens will shatter sapphire.

Add this information to a dime and you'd have 10 cents worth of knowledge.

D³

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Sapphire is cool for a watch, but where an AR coating is needed it may not be the best way to go. In the smaller form factors especially, since it is so much more difficult to break a glass lens when the diameter is below 30mm or so. The whole purpose of sapphire is it's strength, the property it has to resist scratches. Why bother to put a sensitive easily scratched AR coating on a scratch resistant lens? If an AR coating could be applied to the inside only, then I would say it'd have an advantage. But again, at 20mm or so it's just not going to be likely to break the glass lens. So an UCL AR coated 2 sides lens will allow virtually all of the available light to pass through.

FWIW, an extreme situation that would break a thick small lens will shatter sapphire.

Add this information to a dime and you'd have 10 cents worth of knowledge.

D³

Hi Dale,

Thanks so much.
Take into account the cost of making a custom sized sapphire lens, add some coating, field test it, calculate all the time,
and I think it comes to 10 cents x multiple zero's worth of knowledge

Tgwnn

[SuLyMaN]

Will the high mode on an eneloop beat the current KOTH sc52? hehe

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Will the high mode on an eneloop beat the current KOTH sc52? hehe

Hi SuLyMaN,

Thanks for the question.

Actually I had no idea about that number...

If its a requirement, then beating it should be no problem as the thermal path in the Zeus head is going to be easily more efficient and then its only a matter of ensuring the circuit is at least as efficient and the lens is UCL.

In the test results that came back comparing a bunch of off-the-shelf direct to copper, thermally bonded pcb's (sinkpad's, ledtech, etc...)
running direct drive, at the 120second mark after switching on, the raw lumen output with the pill designed for Zeus was just shy of 30% higher compared to the ones mounted with an off-the-shelf pcb (all measure in an IS)

For the first version though, I had the lumen output set slightly lower for a standard AA (eg. eneloops) as beating ZL was not really my criteria (but it won't take very much to tempt me to beat it hahaha ) though I might save it for V2 (upgradable drop-in).

I'm think we'll be doing some friendly whipping with a li-ions and if I recall reading somewhere the SC52 will run for 1min on high before shifting down a mode with a li-ion? No such requirement for Zeus.

All that said, I really do like ZL's!
Perhaps my favorite 90degree angle flashlight, a breeze to use and quality has always been good for me.

...and all that, should be no indication of the final output of Zeus first run, maybe DD maybe CC, gotta wait and see

Tgwnn

[RCantor]

Zoom head and infinitely variable output later on?

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Zoom head and infinitely variable output later on?

Hi RCantor,

Definitely a head with throw to follow later on, I want to maintain waterproofing and not sure yet how well that can be done with a zoomable head. Expect something new/unique though when the time comes

IVO, its a possibility but not yet on my "must do" list, though its on my "can do" list.
If I release an IVO option for Zeus, the UI would have to be something spectacular (I've got something in mind) but with plenty of things in-the-works right now, my guess is that an IVO option would not surface in the first half of next year.

Tgwnn

[RCantor]

Hi RCantor,

Definitely a head with throw to follow later on, I want to maintain waterproofing and not sure yet how well that can be done with a zoomable head. Expect something new/unique though when the time comes

IVO, its a possibility but not yet on my "must do" list, though its on my "can do" list.
If I release an IVO option for Zeus, the UI would have to be something spectacular (I've got something in mind) but with plenty of things in-the-works right now, my guess is that an IVO option would not surface in the first half of next year.

Tgwnn

+1 on waterproofing

Second half of next year is like tomorrow. "Count me in!"

[DBCstm]

Some very bold information in all that, can't wait to see it in action! I've spoiled myself and gone to the zone of 3000+ lumen single emitter efficiency, now everything else just isn't impressive anymore. The old saying "be careful what you wish, you just might get it!" comes to mind! lol

Yes, I took an MT-G2 in a P-60 sized light to over 8A. Somewhere in the midst of the glorious reality I found some tiny bit of reason and backed back down to just over 4A. Nothing will ever be the same again.

Copper, it's a wonderful thing!

DBC_August 16, 2013_160048-2 by genie in a black box, on Flickr

[TEEJ]

Some very bold information in all that, can't wait to see it in action! I've spoiled myself and gone to the zone of 3000+ lumen single emitter efficiency, now everything else just isn't impressive anymore. The old saying "be careful what you wish, you just might get it!" comes to mind! lol

Yes, I took an MT-G2 in a P-60 sized light to over 8A. Somewhere in the midst of the glorious reality I found some tiny bit of reason and backed back down to just over 4A. Nothing will ever be the same again.

Copper, it's a wonderful thing!

DBC_August 16, 2013_160048-2 by genie in a black box, on Flickr

Sweet!

Is that direct drive, or did you find a driver for it?

[DBCstm]

It was direct drive on a pair of Samsung INR18650 20R when it was making over 3000 lumens. I stepped back to 4.05A with a reconfigured QLite 105c style driver, using a pair of Panasonic NCR18650PD cells. This is in a modified Solarforce K3 head. That chunk of copper fills the top end of the L2P host.

Point being, the Zeus is going even one step further with the copper to emitter connection....should be some serious business going on there! This one has the Noctigon pad re-flowed to the copper heat sink at the same time the MT-G2 was re-flowed to the pcb. Guy had the thermal path removed from the pcb and the copper pill machined to rise up through it, so that the emitter thermal pad is directly mounted to the sink. The hard way, the absolute most efficient way! The MBI way

[the_guy_with_no_name]

+1 on waterproofing

Second half of next year is like tomorrow. "Count me in!"

Thanks RCantor

Some very bold information in all that, can't wait to see it in action! I've spoiled myself and gone to the zone of 3000+ lumen single emitter efficiency, now everything else just isn't impressive anymore. The old saying "be careful what you wish, you just might get it!" comes to mind! lol

Yes, I took an MT-G2 in a P-60 sized light to over 8A. Somewhere in the midst of the glorious reality I found some tiny bit of reason and backed back down to just over 4A. Nothing will ever be the same again.

Copper, it's a wonderful thing!

Hi Dale,

That is a totally wicked build and some amazing numbers you have going

It was direct drive on a pair of Samsung INR18650 20R when it was making over 3000 lumens. I stepped back to 4.05A with a reconfigured QLite 105c style driver, using a pair of Panasonic NCR18650PD cells. This is in a modified Solarforce K3 head. That chunk of copper fills the top end of the L2P host.

Point being, the Zeus is going even one step further with the copper to emitter connection....should be some serious business going on there! This one has the Noctigon pad re-flowed to the copper heat sink at the same time the MT-G2 was re-flowed to the pcb. Guy had the thermal path removed from the pcb and the copper pill machined to rise up through it, so that the emitter thermal pad is directly mounted to the sink. The hard way, the absolute most efficient way! The MBI way

Zeus' thermal path is going to be very efficient but V1 (version 1) is an XM-L2, single cell so best to clarify that it won't match the 7V+ double battery output of the MT-G2, but it will definitely be shorter (lol).
I'm still about a week away from confirming the final on-paper specs for V1 and then roughly 1-2 weeks to verify the circuit mounted inside Zeus. It's complex but there's a lot more space to work with in a light this size.

Tgwnn

[sticktodrum]

Hi sticktodrum,
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "rear mech clicky"?
At present, the clicky in the tail is mechanical.

I may offer a smaller tail though in the future for more compact configs.

Most tail clickies are mechanical, but I've seen some Spark lights and Eagletacs that use an electronic switch in the tail. It requires a standby current, but they're usually very small and flat as opposed to a mechanical switch.

Since I saw those, my mind just needs to make the distinction out loud... Heh.

[ThirstyTurtle]

I'm interested in EVERY MBI light but, but for the life of me I can't figure out if they're available to be ordered or how to order them.

[stevenkelby]

I'm interested in EVERY MBI light but, but for the life of me I can't figure out if they're available to be ordered or how to order them.

http://www.matchboxinstruments.com/products.html

[ThirstyTurtle]

http://www.matchboxinstruments.com/products.html

What about the Zeus and Torpedo?

[stevenkelby]

No worries, the links are in Guys signature.

What about the Zeus and Torpedo?

Not available yet. Torpedo is soon to be released in experimental run (x run). If you follow the link I posted you see Torpedo at the bottom of the page. Click that link. Halfway down that page is a link for info on the torpedo x run. On that page you can order one of the x run torpedos if you want. Or just wait for the production version.

The Zeus is not released yet. Subscribe to the MBI updates on any of the pages in the link I posted and you'll get more info when it is available.

Meanwhile we hang out here and speculate, and Guy listens to us