MBI #4 - Get Ready to meet Zeus™

[ThirstyTurtle]

Thanks for the details! I've subscribed and I'll be buying one or the other :-)

[stevenkelby]

Thanks for the details! I've subscribed and I'll be buying one or the other :-)

No worries, you will be impressed

[OneBigDay]

Looks nice. This has really great potential. I would be interested in Stainless Steel or Titanium if available.

You must have a trick up your sleeve with the beam profile. An XML2 in a standard reflector this size would most likely be more flood than throw, but you've got it listed the other way. Optic Maybe?

[climberkid]

Looks nice. This has really great potential. I would be interested in Stainless Steel or Titanium if available.

You must have a trick up your sleeve with the beam profile. An XML2 in a standard reflector this size would most likely be more flood than throw, but you've got it listed the other way. Optic Maybe?

My thought is TIR but that seems to be a lot of potential loss

[DBCstm]

How do you figure that Alex? There are TIR's out there with 94% efficiency, and very few reflectors come close to that.

[climberkid]

Well there you go. It wasn't any research I did just went on the assumption of the style of optic versus a normal reflector.

[DBCstm]

TIR optics are pretty good with efficiency but not known to be throwers. There are a few that have a pretty decent hot-spot, that I've seen, but typically a reflector is better at achieving throw. I would think, with today's computer programs, that reflectors would be narrowing down that gap and becoming more efficient and give us options on beam profiles. We'll see. Perhaps as the emitters reach peaks, manufacturers will have to resort to better reflectors and optics to fine tune the light.

TIR's usually give the benefit of a shorter flashlight head, where a reflector needs to be wider and deeper to get that throw a lot of folks want. Trade-offs, everywhere you go! lol

[TEEJ]

I think wider helps throw...depth doesn't really help the same way...........there's a point of diminishing return.

[DBCstm]

I read a fantastic article on it once upon a time, but with my memory what I get out of it is lacking. From what I can recall, it's about a 1:1 ratio...probably wrong on that. But there IS a formula for achieving maximum throw and while large diameter has a lot to do with it, depth plays it's part as well. Smaller emitters have a proportionally smaller lens that works for them. Perhaps I should put an XP-G2 in an HF and see what that looks like.

Quoted from Dr. Jones at http://lux.yi.org/throw/

Text deleted - Norm

Rule #5.Posting articles and links
Articles from other sources are welcome. Links to other websites are welcome. Do NOT post the entire article on CPF! 9 times out of 10, this would be an infringement on copyright. Limit what you post to around 100 words and then post a link to the original source. Always post a link to the original source!

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Most tail clickies are mechanical, but I've seen some Spark lights and Eagletacs that use an electronic switch in the tail. It requires a standby current, but they're usually very small and flat as opposed to a mechanical switch.

Since I saw those, my mind just needs to make the distinction out loud... Heh.

Hi sticktodrum,
Thanks for confirming and makes sense now

I'm interested in EVERY MBI light but, but for the life of me I can't figure out if they're available to be ordered or how to order them.

Hi ThirstyTurtle,
Thanks so much for posting. Looks like stevenkelby got you covered

No worries, the links are in Guys signature.
Not available yet. Torpedo is soon to be released in experimental run (x run). If you follow the link I posted you see Torpedo at the bottom of the page. Click that link. Halfway down that page is a link for info on the torpedo x run. On that page you can order one of the x run torpedos if you want. Or just wait for the production version.

The Zeus is not released yet. Subscribe to the MBI updates on any of the pages in the link I posted and you'll get more info when it is available.

Meanwhile we hang out here and speculate, and Guy listens to us

Hi Steven,

Thanks so much

Thanks for the details! I've subscribed and I'll be buying one or the other :-)

Thanks again

Looks nice. This has really great potential. I would be interested in Stainless Steel or Titanium if available.

You must have a trick up your sleeve with the beam profile. An XML2 in a standard reflector this size would most likely be more flood than throw, but you've got it listed the other way. Optic Maybe?

Hi OneBigDay,
Thanks for posting.

I should clarify that the throw-iness of Zeus is more due to the power/punch of the XML (XML2 in this case).
There is some spill and flood but plenty of punch so whilst I wouldn't define it as a thrower per se' (until the Throw Head is released) its the reason for the description of the beam profile.

Also, the optic is a reflector rather than TIR or beam shaping lens.

My thought is TIR but that seems to be a lot of potential loss

Hi Alex,
No TIR for the moment but I'd like to do a custom TIR head at some point in time.

How do you figure that Alex? There are TIR's out there with 94% efficiency, and very few reflectors come close to that.

Hi Dale,

A huge range of possible optics combo's. V1 is reflector
more in a moment...

Tgwnn

[the_guy_with_no_name]

TIR's usually give the benefit of a shorter flashlight head, where a reflector needs to be wider and deeper to get that throw a lot of folks want. Trade-offs, everywhere you go! lol

Hi Dale,

From the design perspective, the main advantage of a TIR is size as you mentioned, the ability to get short.
TIR is about harnessing the light. Once its harnessed, a TIR can be custom made to collimate the beam, just the way an aspheric does, so a thrower would be possible.
I've check up on custom made TIR's already and they are mighty expensive for something fancy.
I did want to design one for the Torpedo originally, even the HF's to shed some length. Maybe sometime in the near future

I think wider helps throw...depth doesn't really help the same way...........there's a point of diminishing return.

Hi TEEJ,
Actually either wider or deeper, can both potentially have the exact same impact on throw if the shape/profile of the reflector is correct.
The main point being distance from the emitter (which can be achieved by either going wide, or going deep) and then the angle to the reflector to ensure the projected beam is going the right way

I read a fantastic article on it once upon a time, but with my memory what I get out of it is lacking. From what I can recall, it's about a 1:1 ratio...probably wrong on that. But there IS a formula for achieving maximum throw and while large diameter has a lot to do with it, depth plays it's part as well. Smaller emitters have a proportionally smaller lens that works for them. Perhaps I should put an XP-G2 in an HF and see what that looks like.

Hi Dale,

Thanks, that quote was an interesting read and seems generally correct, but IMHO not entirely accurate in the absolute sense.
Actually I think your summary is more accurate than the quote

I have an HF with XPG somewhere, similar to the nichia219 version, a more pronounced hotspot.

"While depth does not have a direct influence per se, it reduces the size of the 'dead hole' "

For most reflectors, depth may not be the main influencer of throw but that doesn't mean it can not be the main influencer.
The most important factor when it comes to a reflector's size (assuming the shape is optimally designed) is distance (of the reflective surface) from the light source which is usually achieved by going wide, but with the right shape, can also be achieved by going deep (at least theoretically).

Not wanting to turn this into an "all about throw" thread, because there already are some great ones here, including one started by Saab,
but in the simplest analysis, its comes down to these two factors:
1. Surface Brightness of the light source (at a single, theoretical, non-measurable, infinite point (or dot) eg. where two lines converge)
2. Efficiently Harnessing / Redirecting (focusing) the light source

Everything else falls into either 1 or 2.
Bare emitters (with zero optics) will all throw the exact same distance if their surface brightness is the same, regardless of size.
So working on anything that improves either 1. (eg. by better thermal path, allowing for greater power and therefore surface brightness),
of 2. (eg. more efficient optics, collimated beam profile, light collars, parabolics, etc).

Of course, this is purely my take/opinion so always best to double check facts (and I'm always happy to be learning/corrected), but it is based on countless hours researching, experimenting, forgetting what I discovered, then doing it over again.

Tgwnn

[th8tredude]

Hey all, I just thought I'd ask another question. I work with theatrical lights for a living. I'm curious if anyone in the flashlight community has tried using a combo of reflector and lens. We use Ellipsoidal reflector spotlights. The reflector actually focuses the beam at a point in front of the lamp to an exact point where there are then Plano convex or convex lens(or lenses, depending on desired beam angle) used to determine beam angle/ throw. Most modern fixtures have identical reflectors, and all we do is change the lens barrel. I would think one could do something similar in a flashlight. And, the possibility of just swapping a lens tube to shape a beam and/or increase throw seems intriguing.
Has anybody seen anything like this in a flashlight?

Th8tredude





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[OneBigDay]

Looks like my speculation on an optic fueled it's own discussion. Sorry to have taken that off topic a bit. It wasn't my intention. I did learn something from this though. This makes sense and I'd never seen it put this way. I had always thought it was the depth of a reflector that makes it a thrower.

...
Actually either wider or deeper, can both potentially have the exact same impact on throw if the shape/profile of the reflector is correct.
The main point being distance from the emitter (which can be achieved by either going wide, or going deep) and then the angle to the reflector to ensure the projected beam is going the right way
...
For most reflectors, depth may not be the main influencer of throw but that doesn't mean it can not be the main influencer.
The most important factor when it comes to a reflector's size (assuming the shape is optimally designed) is distance (of the reflective surface) from the light source which is usually achieved by going wide, but with the right shape, can also be achieved by going deep (at least theoretically).
...

Tgwnn

Back on topic, It looks like you are going to start with a small batch, but I do hope there are enough made so that we don't have to beg for them

[DBCstm]

Uh, Dude, the link to the original source, as well as credit to Dr. Jones, is plainly posted. I DID NOT quote the entire entry, only the relevant part! Geesh, someone's awfully high handed!

[th8tredude]

Hey OneBigDay, I'm not sure you took anything off topic. Guy is just starting to look at all the possibilities of things he can build for the Zeus. (Not trying to speak for you Guy!). He's planning on the ultimate "Lego-ability", which means to me, if we have potential ideas towards that end, that this is not a bad place to bring stuff up for discussion. Just my thoughts on the subject...
Th8tredude

[the_guy_with_no_name]

My quote button is going wonka's... must be time to sleep but just quickly...

Th8tredude,
I've not seen that in a flashlight "yet"
Sure makes sense though.

Dale,
Sorry, not meaning to sound pompous if thats what high handed meant
I didn't go and read the original source by Dr.J, only the parts you posted, which were of course perfectly relevant and glad you posted them.

and, I was only meaning that throw.... is such a passion filled, long and deep discussion (and possibly wide too)
that it truly is deserving of its own thread, there's just so very much to discuss, which was what I was intending to mean but then perhaps even I got carried away with the throw stuff

So I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it (lol)
and no high hands for a while as my shoulder is a little out


OneBigDay,
No apologies needed here, I, we, appreciate all feedback, viewpoints and posts.
There's no monopoly on good ideas

Th8tredude,
Thanks for the summary and no problems at all, you have the concept nailed

Tgwnn

[ico]

This is very nice guy! I'm guessing its gonna be the best 1AA light ever.

Finally, a 1AA light that operates like an E1B. This looks good on SS or Ti. Ofcourse on aluminim as well
Hope to join your independent GAWs

[RCantor]

If you really want just throw with no spill an aspheric seems to work best from the collection of TIRs and reflectors that I have on XP-E emitters. If you want a little spill with your throw then you have to define what you want

[DBCstm]

I'm hoping that Zeus will have a slightly larger diameter head than is typical with 14500 lights, and also a deeper than standard reflector. Nice throw combined with enough spill to be practical, neither floody nor pencil in nature. Is that too much to hope for?

[Jonnor]

This sounds very promising. Have not even received my X-Torpedo yet and already excited about a new MBI light

As others have noted I would like an option of customizing output levels as well, I find my self almost never using max (which I guess will occupy one of the two modes) and then one more mode is perhaps to little to cover both general use and bedtime use if not programmable. For me low-med-high would be better than just low-high.

This is just my initial thought, I will follow this thread as the development goes along. I am sure it will turn out as a great light independent of modes.

Keep up your great work Guy!

[CaptainRogersUK]

This sounds very promising. Have not even received my X-Torpedo yet and already excited about a new MBI light

As others have noted I would like an option of customizing output levels as well, I find my self almost never using max (which I guess will occupy one of the two modes) and then one more mode is perhaps to little to cover both general use and bedtime use if not programmable. For me low-med-high would be better than just low-high.

This is just my initial thought, I will follow this thread as the development goes along. I am sure it will turn out as a great light independent of modes.

Keep up your great work Guy!

I ordered my torpedo x ultimate, page kept refreshing and canceling my nukes and charger :-(...

def count me in for at least 1 and May be 2.

Did I miss a thread, but did Guy ever produced a light with a throw upto 200m plus. yet...

keep up the good work

guy if you read this I am the dog hander who chats to you in pm...

a trit or two . on the tail end would be awesome two . that way if you drop it in the dark when not lit it help locating if emitter r
nd is down.

[Parker VH]

I'm in for one in aluminum as first choice or will take stainless.
Thanks.

[windstrings]

I'm in for one in aluminum as first choice or will take stainless.
Thanks.

I hope Santa is making a list!

_____________________________________
Alan

[Parker VH]

I hope Santa is making a list!

_____________________________________
Alan

I need to quit diggin around these other forums, they just cost me more money.

[KDM]

I'll take one! I would really like a firefly mode. I use sub lumen mode checking on the little ones at night. The location of the trits look awesome! Quick question, where are you located? Don't know if I need to opt for international shipping not knowing where you are.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Thanks for all the posts

I'll be back to reply in more detail but just wanted to let you know that Zeus is coming along just wickedly.

Between hammering away at the Torpedo project, and Zeus I've been clocking up hours like they are minutes.
I was able to get confirmation on implementing some of yet to be revealed features that I know you will LOVE and if there was another level above capital letters I'd be using that..

Not purposely meaning to be "too" sneaky about it but I must complete filing of some paper work and...want to be a few minutes away from shipping before I can reveal it in all its glory, but...
Just wait and see

"Zeus"

Tgwnn

[th8tredude]

I can hardly wait Guy!!!
Th8tredude


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[DBCstm]

Send me a prototype and I'll make up an introduction poster.

[gunga]

Hmmm. Was going to buy some stuff. Will wait to see more about the Zues!

[the_guy_with_no_name]

This is very nice guy! I'm guessing its gonna be the best 1AA light ever.

Finally, a 1AA light that operates like an E1B. This looks good on SS or Ti. Ofcourse on aluminim as well
Hope to join your independent GAWs

Thanks ico,

That's a pretty tall feat to accomplish but its definitely going to be monumental,
and its definitely going to have some functions I've never seen anywhere else.

If you really want just throw with no spill an aspheric seems to work best from the collection of TIRs and reflectors that I have on XP-E emitters. If you want a little spill with your throw then you have to define what you want

Hi RCantor,
Agree with it all

I'm hoping that Zeus will have a slightly larger diameter head than is typical with 14500 lights, and also a deeper than standard reflector. Nice throw combined with enough spill to be practical, neither floody nor pencil in nature. Is that too much to hope for?

Hi Dale,
Slightly larger diameter = Yes
Deeper reflector = Yes
Too much to hope for = No

This sounds very promising. Have not even received my X-Torpedo yet and already excited about a new MBI light

As others have noted I would like an option of customizing output levels as well, I find my self almost never using max (which I guess will occupy one of the two modes) and then one more mode is perhaps to little to cover both general use and bedtime use if not programmable. For me low-med-high would be better than just low-high.

This is just my initial thought, I will follow this thread as the development goes along. I am sure it will turn out as a great light independent of modes.

Keep up your great work Guy!

Thanks for the feedback Jonnor,

Zeus will make a nice body guard to sleep with, especially the SS version.
The low is practical and Version 1 will be 2mode but there will definitely be a drop-in with more modes coming and customization is where Zeus will truly standout.

I ordered my torpedo x ultimate, page kept refreshing and canceling my nukes and charger :-(...
def count me in for at least 1 and May be 2.
Did I miss a thread, but did Guy ever produced a light with a throw upto 200m plus. yet...
keep up the good work

guy if you read this I am the dog hander who chats to you in pm...
a trit or two . on the tail end would be awesome two . that way if you drop it in the dark when not lit it help locating if emitter r
nd is down.

Hi Captain,
Thanks for the post
Congrats on your Torpedo X and thanks for joining.
>>Guy ever produced a light with a throw up to 200m plus
Oh that, yes of course I've just never told anybody
Trits in the tail, already there

I'm in for one in aluminum as first choice or will take stainless.
Thanks.

Thanks Parker

I hope Santa is making a list!

_____________________________________
Alan

Hi Alan,
I hope so too!

I need to quit diggin around these other forums, they just cost me more money.

I agree (lol) (on the costing money part, but don't stop till ya get enough)

I'll take one! I would really like a firefly mode. I use sub lumen mode checking on the little ones at night. The location of the trits look awesome! Quick question, where are you located? Don't know if I need to opt for international shipping not knowing where you are.

Hi KDM,
Thanks very much for the post.
firefly not scheduled for version 1 but a low/low will be available as an upgrade.
I'm based in Japan.

I can hardly wait Guy!!!
Th8tredude

Hi th8tredude,
To be very very honest...
ME TOO!!!

Send me a prototype and I'll make up an introduction poster.

Thanks Dale,
Very very tempting

Hmmm. Was going to buy some stuff. Will wait to see more about the Zues!

Hi gunga,


If its only stuff, then waiting a little longer could be worthwhile
and well, if its more than just stuff, you'll still want one.


I'm not sure how much I can cram into version 1 but the upgrade path for Zeus will be vertical (a straight line into the heavens).

Tgwnn