Part of advertising, Maybe? Misleading[?], Absolutely!

I think this is common with most if not all Flashlight manufacturers.I will get to "This" in a moment

I have Two Fenix Flashlights and was thinking of getting a third. I have the TK-75 and the TK-35. I like both of them a lot. A minor issue with the TK-75 that is now resolved and the TK-35 has had no issues!

So, I was thinking of getting a Third Fenix light, the PD-35.A very popular light that people seem to like a lot. What I noticed after downloading the manual[Three websites do NOT mention this] is that Turbo will work 5 minutes and then step down, They warn you if you continue to step back up that it can harm the light and lessen its life.Ok,,,I understand, not everyone is a turbo freak like me!:twothumbs

Here is where I have the problem!! They ADVERTISE that you can get 1 hour and 15 minutes of turbo??!! That is very misleading. Advertising ploy? I think so! Why do they do that? You certainly can not run it that long on turbo.:thinking:

I also have the new version of the Nitecore EA4. Same story! They advertise 1 hour 45 min. of turbo, yet it steps down after 3 minutes and they also[I emailed main HQ] told me you can step back up, however it may generate too much heat and damage the light if you do it too many times.

A mistake I made was I found out after the fact!! I ordered the EA4 then looked at the "User Manual"!! That was my fault! I still like the light even though I am disappointed in the misleading run times they advertise.

I want to make this CLEAR! I like my Fenix lights and also like the Nitecore EA4 that I have. In no way am I condemning either of the Two manufacturers. I would certainly consider buying lights from either company again. The turbo specs. just have to be as advertised!!:thumbsup:

Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated!:thanks:

EDIT: I would be remiss if I did not include this!

The TK-35[U2] that I have states that it gets 1h 37min of turbo using the CR123A batteries.It steps down after 25 minutes but you can step up again with no heat issue and warnings by manufacturer!

I got 2h 6min. of turbo using my genuine 18650 Panasonic 3400 Mah cells!!:thumbsup::twothumbs

I have a few high end drop-ins from a very respected builder that drops down after a short period too. I was too disappointed. The size of the flashlight that I have use the drop-ins just can't handle that much heat for the full advertised run time on high.

It means that the juice that is drained out of fully charged batteries in turbo mode is drained at a rate that would deplete the batteries in 1 hour and 15 minutes. So it's basically saying that u can shine 5 minutes of turbo 15 times before depleting a battery charge

BeastFlashlight said:

It means that the juice that is drained out of fully charged batteries in turbo mode is drained at a rate that would deplete the batteries in 1 hour and 15 minutes. So it's basically saying that u can shine 5 minutes of turbo 15 times before depleting a battery charge

Click to expand...

I agree with you in how you calculated that.

My point is that in reality you can not do that because of potential heat generated and the damage to the light. So those specs. that they advertise are misleading and useless!:sigh:

Yes I meant 15 turbo modes AFTER the light cools down each time. Yes that does suck, heat is always the enemy

I agree with you. I was going to get the PD35, and like you, I have not read ANYWHERE that it stepped down after 5 minutes. I have a EA4 also, and it says nowhere on the box that it steps down after 3 minutes, but I ordered it and knew ahead of time. I bought a Nitecore MH25 a month ago and it is the same story. The manufacturer tries to hide this feature. I still like the EA4, and it was not a deal breaker for me on it, but it may be on the PD35. I also may not have bought the MH25 if I had known ahead of time it did this. Things are sold by the numbers! :sigh:

mikekoz said:

I agree with you. I was going to get the PD35, and like you, I have not read ANYWHERE that it stepped down after 5 minutes. I have a EA4 also, and it says nowhere on the box that it steps down after 3 minutes, but I ordered it and knew ahead of time. I bought a Nitecore MH25 a month ago and it is the same story. The manufacturer tries to hide this feature. I still like the EA4, and it was not a deal breaker for me on it, but it may be on the PD35. I also may not have bought the MH25 if I had known ahead of time it did this. Things are sold by the numbers! :sigh:

Click to expand...

Thank you! There is someone in this world who thinks like me at times! lol!

"Back in the day" we used to get super inflated runtimes and lumen counts. (Listen to me, don't I sound like an old coot these days:naughty there were no real standards and a lot of people took the attitude of "so what, it's just a flashlight". I'm pretty sure that CPF and it's active members actually had some influence in changing some of that.

Now we have the "new" inflated claims to battle, and here we go again.

I agree completely that listing a big runtime number for a limited/self canceling mode is deceptive advertising and it needs to stop If a mode is limited to 3/5/7 minutes they need to say it up front and leave it at that. I've begun calling manufacturers out on this in my "Real world reviews" such as the recent Sunwayman D40A review where I said;

Turbo (980L) is just a show off mode so they can claim 900+ lumens. Yeah it's impressive as heck but it auto-disables after 3 minutes to avoid heat damage so I consider it more like a flashy paint job than an actual service function.

Click to expand...

I think the best we can do right now is to keep making each other aware here on the board, and keep writing the manufacturers and calling them out.

I agree. Personally don't care since I know about this from being on CPF. But anyone else not big into flashlights or researching on a forum will simply purchase the light based on what the box says, later finding out there was some "fine print", but not really

I think including an "*" after the lumen/runtime on the box would be enough to let the consumer know there's additional info on back.

markr6 said:

I think including an "*" after the lumen/runtime on the box would be enough to let the consumer know there's additional info on back.

Click to expand...

As long as there will be additional info on the back...about year ago I started to see new trend in marketing - they put an asterisk and that's it, job done - no explanation of the asterisk nowhere. For me its just big wtf :thinking:

I always thought the turbo runtime rating was how long the light would last including the step downs. Just turning it on turbo and letting it go til it steps down and eventually turns itself off. I guess I was wrong. I don't use turbo for any more than five mins anyway. The best rule of thumb is to not go by the turbo rating. If the light has say five outputs look at levels 3 and 4 and make sure they can do what you need, only use turbo for short bursts. A small light might be able to produce the same lumens but not for long. It's all about finding that light that has enough lumens and runtime but small enough to edc

zespectre said:

"Back in the day" we used to get super inflated runtimes and lumen counts. (Listen to me, don't I sound like an old coot these days:naughty there were no real standards and a lot of people took the attitude of "so what, it's just a flashlight". I'm pretty sure that CPF and it's active members actually had some influence in changing some of that.

Now we have the "new" inflated claims to battle, and here we go again.

I agree completely that listing a big runtime number for a limited/self canceling mode is deceptive advertising and it needs to stop If a mode is limited to 3/5/7 minutes they need to say it up front and leave it at that. I've begun calling manufacturers out on this in my "Real world reviews" such as the recent Sunwayman D40A review where I said;


I think the best we can do right now is to keep making each other aware here on the board, and keep writing the manufacturers and calling them out.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much!!

that was helpful and I am glad to see that you actually contacted one of the manufacturers and expressed how you felt about their deception!!! :twothumbs

I did the same with Nitecore. I will say this about them, They do mention [3 minutes of turbo!] it on their website which I did not notice until I purchased it!!

However, when I told them how misleading their turbo run time is, it basically fell on deaf ears!

Lastly, I am still a Freshman at this!! I start my Sophomore year in November!! At least today we have something to go buy with the standards[ANSI/NEMA FL 1] that some manufacturers use!

There are two ways to get the extended runtimes of turbo (or really bright lights).

1 - run it in a glass of water.
2 - add a heat sink.

Here is the heatsink I made for an MD4 with 1000 lumen triple dropin.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nt-cooling-bezel-(version-2-added-in-post-17)

MartinDWhite said:

There are two ways to get the extended runtimes of turbo (or really bright lights).

1 - run it in a glass of water.
2 - add a heat sink

Click to expand...

Or add a fan.

Nice job on the heat sink.

MartinDWhite said:

There are two ways to get the extended runtimes of turbo (or really bright lights).

1 - run it in a glass of water.
2 - add a heat sink.

Here is the heatsink I made for an MD4 with 1000 lumen triple dropin.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nt-cooling-bezel-(version-2-added-in-post-17)

Click to expand...

Nice job!! Good improvisation!

Three ways!!! The TK-75 has a battery Ext. kit! I know most flashlights don't have that option. I go from 62 minutes of turbo to 2h 54 min. of turbo w/ one ext. Kit!! :twothumbs

But none of us should have to do that when the manufacturers specify a certain run time on turbo that is basically a fallacy!

On the other hand, sometimes we need to do what we have to do to get what we should have gotten!!! lol!!:thinking:

I think what happens is realistically we can't expect the "as advertised" turbo run times on these smaller flashlights, However, because of the competition and each manufacturer wanting to out do the other, they do what ever they have to do to sell them.

The ads ARE deceptive. I think they should rephrase it to say it more along the lines of "Turbo - 5 minutes at a time, heat limited (Or time, whatever it is)"

Instead, what they seem to do (Rather than the battery drain formula) is to ADD the 5 min of turbo to what's left of the High after doing that, and call that the turbo run time.


On the other hand, I don't pick a light by its turbo output and then complain about step down.

I look at more like I want a light based on its sustainable level...high typically...or, at least its run time at the output level I want, even if that's medium, etc....for THAT light.


I see the turbo (Or burst mode, etc) as more akin to a car with nitrous injection. The normal use would be on the high, and, they could have JUST had that high as the top level...and had no step down. This would be like a car with no NOX.


Adding the NOX simply means I can ALSO get a short burst of added light if needed.....without needing to lug around a larger light that can maintain that output indefinitely.


Otherwise, its like complaining that the car with NOX can't go that fast ALL the time.


Of course, the ADVERTISEMENTS, as mentioned, are misleading, and most non-CPF people will not notice the step down as an issue.....just like most people can buy a 300 lumen (Advertised as 9,000 lumen) suretocatchfire XL9000, etc...and be impressed with how damn BRIGHT it is! (And just figure that must be what 9,0000 lumens looks like)

TEEJ said:

The ads ARE deceptive. I think they should rephrase it to say it more along the lines of "Turbo - 5 minutes at a time, heat limited (Or time, whatever it is)"

Instead, what they seem to do (Rather than the battery drain formula) is to ADD the 5 min of turbo to what's left of the High after doing that, and call that the turbo run time.


On the other hand, I don't pick a light by its turbo output and then complain about step down.

I look at more like I want a light based on its sustainable level...high typically...or, at least its run time at the output level I want, even if that's medium, etc....for THAT light.


I see the turbo (Or burst mode, etc) as more akin to a car with nitrous injection. The normal use would be on the high, and, they could have JUST had that high as the top level...and had no step down. This would be like a car with no NOX.


Adding the NOX simply means I can ALSO get a short burst of added light if needed.....without needing to lug around a larger light that can maintain that output indefinitely.


Otherwise, its like complaining that the car with NOX can't go that fast ALL the time.


Of course, the ADVERTISEMENTS, as mentioned, are misleading, and most non-CPF people will not notice the step down as an issue.....just like most people can buy a 300 lumen (Advertised as 9,000 lumen) suretocatchfire XL9000, etc...and be impressed with how damn BRIGHT it is! (And just figure that must be what 9,0000 lumens looks like)

Click to expand...

Your Right! The adds ARE deceptive!!


That was my whole point, NOT whether someone likes turbo or not in regards to choosing a light!

That has no bearing on the fact that they are misleading and deceptive in regards to Turbo Run time.

Capolini said:

Your Right! The adds ARE deceptive!!


That was my whole point, NOT whether someone likes turbo or not in regards to choosing a light!

That has no bearing on the fact that they are misleading and deceptive in regards to Turbo Run time.

Click to expand...

Except that you asked for my thoughts.

TEEJ said:

Except that you asked for my thoughts.

Click to expand...

I did???

I already know your thoughts, you are very predictable!

I understand that someone without technical expertise and background could find this misleading. To accuse the vendor to do it on purpose is an other thing. They are technical expert aren't they ? If they specify "turbo" mode, they thought that people would understand that like you don't push your turbocharged car for hours, your post combustion fighter jet for hours, etc without expecting overheating and may be to damage it, you won't push your "turbo" mode flashlight continuously. In fact Fenix implemented a thermal protection didn't they ?
If the PD35 was designed for continuous mode, they wouldn't have used the term "turbo". Considering the size of the light that I own by the way, I never expected it to run continuously at max output unless may be in Siberia.