Describing LED tint and CRI to a non-flashaholic

ronniepudding

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I'm trying to help my brother choose a new headlamp, and I've narrowed it down to the Zebralight H502. However there are several emitter choices, and I'm trying to explain them. Have I done a good job of explaining this in an unbiased way? I'd also be curious to hear if I've gotten anything wrong in the description that follows. [Note that I am not recommending the cool white tint to him because I'm not personally fond of them in headlamps -- no offense to those that like CW. But other than that, I'm not trying to sway him in favor of any particular option.]


There are a couple of choices to be made. I think the main choice is whether to forgo output and get better color rendering (high Color Rendering Index, or "CRI") and/or a warmer tint, -- or on the other hand get max brightness and accept a more washed-out light quality.


Zebralight has a number of choices for which emitter you want in their headlamps. I would go with one of the following (in order of brightness):


1) Cree XM-L2 neutral white tint (CCT 4,400K); CRI = 75 (out of 100), max lumens = 260
2) Rebel High CRI daylight tint (CCT 5,000K); CRI = 85, max lumens = 170 (will be bluer than XM-L2, but with better color reproduction)
3) Rebel High CRI neutral white tint (CCT 4,000K); CRI = 85, max lumens = 142 (will be yellower than both 1 & 2, more like an incandescent bulb... again with better color reproduction than the XM-L2)


A bit more explanation on tint... the CCT # (correlated color temperature) describes the relative warmth or coolness of the light produced by the emitter. A higher number will be cooler (or bluer), and a lower number will be warmer (or yellower, more like an incandescent bulb). All this is somewhat subjective, since the critical factor is the eye of the beholder so to speak, -- and different people perceive colors differently. In any case, 5,000K is approximately "soft daylight", and so that's sort of a good reference point.


In general, the quality of color produced by an LED can be described by a combination of CCT and CRI. Warmer temperature (lower CCT), and better color rendering (higher CRI), will both negatively impact output/brightness, as measured in lumens. Thus choice #3 would be considered by many to be the "best" quality tint, but outputs fewer lumens than the other choices. Choice #1 is brightest on max, but will appear more washed-out and flat looking than the other choices.


In the end, any of these lights will be 10 times better than the old Tikka we're replacing on all counts, so don't get too hung up on this. Also, consider that while the difference between 260 and 142 lumens will be noticeable, the difference between 170 and 142 will be hard to discern (i.e., it's not a linear scale).


The decision really comes down to how you intend to use the light:


A) The high (260 lm) output on the XM-L2 is going to be useful in a pinch when walking over rough or unfamiliar terrain... you can set the light on max and see into the distance much better than with the Rebel lights. The battery won't last long at max output though, and as discussed, you're better off using a dedicated, more throwy flashlight for this purpose if you intend to hike at night. But in an emergency, it might be nice to have that ability, if only for a short time.
B) The 142-170 lm output on the Rebel lights is no slouch compared to what you're used to, but it's not going to be as good as the XM-L for lighting power. What it will do is make the colors "pop" in objects close by. A couple of other factors in favor of the Rebel is that it's inherently less floody than an XM-L2, so it will marginally project forward a bit better. Also, while the XM-L2 is more efficient on high output modes, the Rebel is actually more efficient (preserving battery reserves) when used on medium and low modes. Typically when camping in the dark (or working on a car), you'll use the high mode pretty infrequently, if at all, and medium will handle most needs.

So how did I do? Anything I should correct? Any other factors or additional criteria that you'd use when choosing between these LEDs? What would be your choice? (I'd go with #3, but I think that's because it's an excuse to also carry a thrower while camping ;)
 

Mr Floppy

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What it will do is make the colors "pop" in objects close by.

I don't agree with this statement. Even with a Nichia 219, I don't really see the colours 'Pop' out at me. Side by side with another light perhaps but the difference, at least for me, is very hard to detect.
 

ronniepudding

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I don't agree with this statement. Even with a Nichia 219, I don't really see the colours 'Pop' out at me. Side by side with another light perhaps but the difference, at least for me, is very hard to detect.

That's fair... I agree the difference is subtle. I'll emphasize that point to my brother. Thanks for the input Mr. Floppy.

To be clear, we're replacing a 10+ year old Petzl Tikka, so I think any of these choices will be a vast improvement in both output, and light quality. I'm not sure about run time on the old headlamp, but we're on the same page that 3xAAA isn't optimal, and the replacement should be 1xAA if possible.
 

THE_dAY

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That's a pretty good explanation.
It would also be good to give him some real life examples of tints "in use" from your flashlights.
Or if not then there are some good pics on this site showing the differences in tints and outdoor beamshots.
 

ronniepudding

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That's a pretty good explanation.
It would also be good to give him some real life examples of tints "in use" from your flashlights.
Or if not then there are some good pics on this site showing the differences in tints and outdoor beamshots.

Good idea... I have a few examples that I can show him, including a couple of Nichia 219 lights to demonstrate high CRI. Unfortunately I gave my Zebralight SC52W to my father in law recently, and I don't have another XM-L2 to show him at the moment. I have never owned a Rebel, but I've read a few positive descriptions of the 4000K 'C' version. I'm sorta hoping he chooses that one so I can check it out.
 

martinaee

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Neutral vs Cool White tint. The eternal battle.

Neutral white sounds better on paper and I love it in real use too, but I also find that in a strange way cool white tints give me more contrast sometimes.

I think the problem is I still want a cool white that's slightly warmer and a neutral that's slightly cooler. I don't have any xm-l2 or xp-g2 lights yet so I'll see in the future.

I really want to test out the tint in the upcoming TK22 neutral version. If the tint is nicer than my neutral E50 I'm probably going to have to get it.
 

markr6

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You could buy both directly from Zebralight and test them. Return whichever one you don't like. I've done that before and they refunded me within a few days. It's going to cost you $6 or so to send back, but may be worth it to get a nice tint.

Personally, when using cool whites I feel like I'm looking thru glasses with blue plastic lenses. Unfortunatley, many of the latest neutral white emitters I tried just plain suck as well.
 

thedoc007

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A) The high (260 lm) output on the XM-L2 is going to be useful in a pinch when walking over rough or unfamiliar terrain... you can set the light on max and see into the distance much better than with the Rebel lights. The battery won't last long at max output though...

I need a clarification here - not sure one way or the other. Are the runtimes on high actually very different? I would assume they all have the same driver, and the same voltages - not sure why the XM-L2 would have a dramatically shorter runtime than either of the other choices. Usually to get better color rendering, the phosphor absorbs more light, and thus the lumen output drops. But that doesn't mean the runtime will be lower...it isn't like the XM-L2 is being driven ~60% harder to get those extra lumens. I also thought the XM-L2 was one of the more efficient emitters available - your info would seem to contradict this.

Like I said, I genuinely don't know, not criticizing your write-up. Just want to clarify for my own edification. Fantastic job overall. Taking the time to explain rather than just telling him to buy a certain one is admirable, and sharing it with us too!
 

ronniepudding

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Personally, when using cool whites I feel like I'm looking thru glasses with blue plastic lenses. Unfortunately, many of the latest neutral white emitters I tried just plain suck as well.


Cool whites are not my first choice either because the light quality feels ... well ... cold :) and stark. At the same time, I can see why some people might like the higher contrast.

I had a SC52W (neutral white, same emitter as choice #1 in my description above) for a while, and I was pretty happy with the tint... but I recall it as being slightly yellow. Not obnoxiously so, but noticeable when wall hunting and comparing with other LEDs. I'm still relatively new to understanding how tints work (which is why I posted the original post above), but I'm getting the sense that it's very difficult for manufacturers to achieve that fine line between warm and cool... at least to the satisfaction of the majority. I'd imagine that the perception of temperature varies between users.
 

ronniepudding

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I need a clarification here - not sure one way or the other. Are the runtimes on high actually very different? I would assume they all have the same driver, and the same voltages - not sure why the XM-L2 would have a dramatically shorter runtime than either of the other choices. Usually to get better color rendering, the phosphor absorbs more light, and thus the lumen output drops. But that doesn't mean the runtime will be lower...it isn't like the XM-L2 is being driven ~60% harder to get those extra lumens. I also thought the XM-L2 was one of the more efficient emitters available - your info would seem to contradict this.

You raise a good point... I wasn't meaning to compare runtimes on high between the different emitters, since I didn't do that research. I was just saying that the XM-L2 has a higher high, and therefore might provide a use-case that the others wouldn't. I'm pretty sure run time on Turbo is short (< 1 hour) for all three choices, and that's what I meant by "The battery won't last long at max output". If the SC52W is a good benchmark, Selfbuilt timed Turbo at around 50 minutes on an Eneloop. I'm assuming that the Rebels will have similar runtimes. But since they are all three at different lumen levels for 6 different modes, -- comparing them isn't apples-to-apples, and in the end I didn't want to get into the weeds.

Also, --- disclaimer, this is third-hand info -- I read in other threads on CPF that the XM-L2 is more efficient than the Rebel at higher output levels, but the Rebel is more efficient on low-med. I made this point in the last paragraph, but perhaps not strongly enough.

In any case, I think I've talked him into #3, but I'm going to demonstrate some different emitters this weekend before he makes a final decision.

Thanks all for your input, and for reading my noob writeup =)
 
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oeL

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The decision really comes down to how you intend to use the light:

One more difference between cool/neutral/warm white: The higher the color temperature, the shorter the wavelength... and the stronger are reflections on water surfaces. This effect is important for outdoor use in bad weather: in rain and fog conditions the water drops light up much more with a cool white than with a warm white LED, meaning you will see less far. Just like... fog bulbs in cars are halogene bulbs with low color temperature, you can see (a bit) through fog with infrared cams, and some people use ruby or yellow filters on their sports glasses when riding bicycle in bad weather.

It's been the foggy nights, why I substituted my Predator XP-G2 with the "warm" version of the same light.

Maybe this might be interesting for you when writing the pros and cons of the different tints for a headlamp...
 

ronniepudding

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Reflection is more pronounced in cooler tints, -- makes sense but I didn't think of it before. Thanks oeL. Water is a good consideration for how he'll be using the light... fishing, canoeing, and camping on a lake. H502c (#3) is looking like the winner here.
 
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