Pepper spray

Hello All,

Are there any pepper sprays that you recommend that will not backfire when you use it and the wind is blowing towards you? Planning of getting one for my sister. Never used pepper spray before and heard that if used against the wind; the wind will blow the pepper spray back to the user. Looking for a solid stream. Thanks.

Sabre Red and Fox Labs both make really good pepper sprays that meet your criteria. Just be sure to get the ones that say something like "10 to 12 foot range" on the label. Those shoot a fairly powerful STREAM instead of a FOG. It's possible it could blow back, but it would take a much stronger than normal gust of wind to do so.

I can't add much, there are foam versions, but for the size of the canister, I dunno.

Worth buying a few extras as trainers, kinda pointless to send anyone out with an unfamiliar weapon/tool.

Skimo said:

I can't add much, there are foam versions, but for the size of the canister, I dunno.

Worth buying a few extras as trainers, kinda pointless to send anyone out with an unfamiliar weapon/tool.

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I didn't know it requires training to use a pepper spray. It seems quite straight forward.

rje58 said:

Sabre Red and Fox Labs both make really good pepper sprays that meet your criteria. Just be sure to get the ones that say something like "10 to 12 foot range" on the label. Those shoot a fairly powerful STREAM instead of a FOG. It's possible it could blow back, but it would take a much stronger than normal gust of wind to do so.

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Thanks rje58, I actually did see that on eBay.

dealgrabber2002 said:

I didn't know it requires training to use a pepper spray. It seems quite straight forward.

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Please try doing so in a stressful situation when you have no idea what the actual range and spray pattern is, I'm no martial arts whiz. Would you send an untrained person to shoot after only reading instructions on a pistol? Send someone out with something as simple as brass knuckles without teaching them how to hit with them?

I could go on and on about situational awareness and using a buddy system and being prepared, but that wasn't in the question. Some manufacturers have trainers available. If the item is supposed to be more than a lucky charm, the end user should be comfortable with that specific item or at the very least a system similar to it, it's limitations and their limitations when using it.

Yes, the Sabre brand is good - commonly found in EMS/Police/Fire uniform stores as well. A version of Sabre has Oleoresin Capsicum, tear gas, and a UV dye. The percentage of Oleoresin Capsicum in the Sabre brand is around 10%. In the military we were trained to get thru tear gas, but the higher percentages of pepper spray were difficult to deal with.

Be careful of the 17% version - illegal in many states. My daughter is a doctor, who also worked in EMS, and stated that the 17% version _will_ cause immediate respiratory failure. A general rule in the police departments in the US is that if anyone received a dose of pepper spray in the face, they have to roll an ambulance. roughly the same reaction as if some perp was tazed.

In general, any pepper spray is illegal in the airlines hand-carry luggage. The various European police agencies take a very dim view of anyone with a pepper spray canister.

Ref training with pepper spray: I have handed out a lot of the little Sabre canisters to college girls and always recommended that they practice with a few "shots" aimed at a tree trunk at their height. Nearly all of them state that simply having something like that in their hand changes their behaviour. The Sabre canister can be palmed nicely and anyone agressively approaching the girl will not immediately see what is in their hand until she flips off the safety, aims, and squeezes with her thumb. I once had a case where a college girl took a few practice shots at a tree with the Sabre spray, hit the trunk, the spray off the tree was caught by the wind currents around her apt building (my bad!) and the vapor blew back in to her boyfriend's face. He had to be led into the apt and washed out his eyes for 5 min. He did eventually marry her...

moldyoldy said:

Be careful of the 17% version - illegal in many states. My daughter is a doctor, who also worked in EMS, and stated that the 17% version _will_ cause immediate respiratory failure. A general rule in the police departments in the US is that if anyone received a dose of pepper spray in the face, they have to roll an ambulance. roughly the same reaction as if some perp was tazed.

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I was sprayed with 20% OC in the Army and I didn't have any sort of respiratory failure. In fact, I had to go through a takedown course as part of it.

Jumpmaster said:

I was sprayed with 20% OC in the Army and I didn't have any sort of respiratory failure. In fact, I had to go through a takedown course as part of it.

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Not sure about your experience. My daughter did state that the condition for rolling an ambulance was a direct hit in the face with an OC stream. Vapor does not count. I suspect that her assumption is that at least some of the _fluid_ penetrated the eyes/mouth/nose openings. I also went thru the usual mil-training and did not think the debilitating chemicals were all that bad. I suspect that they made it easier on us than it could have been.

moldyoldy said:

Not sure about your experience. My daughter did state that the condition for rolling an ambulance was a direct hit in the face with an OC stream. Vapor does not count. I suspect that her assumption is that at least some of the _fluid_ penetrated the eyes/mouth/nose openings. I also went thru the usual mil-training and did not think the debilitating chemicals were all that bad. I suspect that they made it easier on us than it could have been.

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I was sprayed directly in the face, straight across, slowly, from one ear to the other...just like everyone else that had to do it. I had zero respiratory distress. And this was not a gas or vapor...it was a solid, liquid stream.

Also, I am not talking about the "gas chamber" with CS...this was completely different.

Jumpmaster said:

I was sprayed directly in the face, straight across, slowly, from one ear to the other...just like everyone else that had to do it. I had zero respiratory distress. And this was not a gas or vapor...it was a solid, liquid stream.

Also, I am not talking about the "gas chamber" with CS...this was completely different.

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fair enough - your experience was different from mine, or the average EMS responders' guidelines. In the military I could easily observe that the various servicemen around me were obviously affected by the different debilitating gases more than others. We were not sprayed in the face directly. our fatigues caught it.

I do have a canister of the 17% OC and have compared it with the more standard 10% OC (Sabre). The commercially sold 17% OC was definitely more potent causing my breathing to 'choke up', quicker than the 10% OC. I did attempt to breath in the spray to experience how deep I could breath it in before my breathing involuntarily ceased and I walked out of the vapor. Admittedly I did not spray myself. rather I tried various ways of walking in to the cloud/vapor that enveloped the tree trunk I aimed at. I also have tried out the standard police spray which allows a continuous stream/spray vs a 1 second shot.

As always, a single data point means a degrees of freedom of zero. I was never privy to the statistical data giving any cross section of servicemen subjected to the testing.

moldyoldy said:

As always, a single data point means a degrees of freedom of zero. I was never privy to the statistical data giving any cross section of servicemen subjected to the testing.

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Well, to give you more than my one, single data point, none of my 300+ buddies had any respiratory failure either during the exact same training that day.

Have you looked at the Kimber pepperblaster, basically a small pistol that shots a blast of spray, definatly will not have to worry about back spray with it.

Jumpmaster said:

Well, to give you more than my one, single data point, none of my 300+ buddies had any respiratory failure either during the exact same training that day.

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ok, accepted as stated. Note that my training was NBC training. although this was a rather long time ago, as I recall, a tent was set up, some standard CS gas filled the tent to the desired concentration while we fitted our gas masks to our faces outside the tent. Then we filed in (small groups) with masks on thru a double entrance to keep too much gas from escaping. The ratio inside of instructors to trainees was high. Once everyone was stable, we were ordered to remove the gas masks. Then we were fogged/sprayed with some additional gas of some kind. Then we had some simple operation to perform - do not recall what - while the masks were off. The instructors waited until no one could hold their breath any more and all were forced to practice how to clear eyes and breath "carefully". Finally when the instructors were satisfied that everyone had a problem, only then did an instructor yell "GAS" and we were allowed to put on and clear our masks. When everyone was stable with their masks on & cleared (breathing normally), minus anyone who had to be dragged out, we were allowed to leave.

There are many police reports of ineffectual use of pepper spray by girls against attackers - no specifics are ever given. The point is training and situational awareness.

However, we are deviating rather far from the original request for info.

I seen one that was pistol shaped that i knew a few people carried and said it was good. The package said, when i seen it last, that it was of swiss and american quality. If i remember it, i'll post the name of it later. When i last looked on youtube about it, people were giving it good reviews. There was another one i recall seeing that shot a solid stream, like you was wanting, and it said it also "painted" the face of the attacker, so he could be identified later by the police if he ran away. Me, personally, i prefer to CC, but whatever floats your boat!

moldyoldy said:

ok, accepted as stated. Note that my training was NBC training. although this was a rather long time ago, as I recall, a tent was set up, some standard CS gas filled the tent to the desired concentration while we fitted our gas masks to our faces outside the tent. Then we filed in (small groups) with masks on thru a double entrance to keep too much gas from escaping. The ratio inside of instructors to trainees was high. Once everyone was stable, we were ordered to remove the gas masks. Then we were fogged/sprayed with some additional gas of some kind. Then we had some simple operation to perform - do not recall what - while the masks were off. The instructors waited until no one could hold their breath any more and all were forced to practice how to clear eyes and breath "carefully". Finally when the instructors were satisfied that everyone had a problem, only then did an instructor yell "GAS" and we were allowed to put on and clear our masks. When everyone was stable with their masks on & cleared (breathing normally), minus anyone who had to be dragged out, we were allowed to leave.

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My father was in the 1st Cav during the vietnam war, and i used to hear him tell stories all the time like that. I would just roll my eyes and be like "yeah cool" and walk away. I'd give anything to hear him tell one more story.

I have an uncle who is a chronic liar, so it's hard to believe anything he said, but i recall him once say that when he was in BT, they would have masks with their names on them laying on on the floor of the chamber, and fill it with gas, and they had to go in and find their mask, all while being exposed to the gas, and you had to find your mask, and if you came out with someone else's mask, they'd throw you back in and make you do it over. again, not sure if it's true or not, but sounds like a legit way of teaching.

dealgrabber2002 said:

I didn't know it requires training to use a pepper spray. It seems quite straight forward.

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That's the mistake many make. They think it's as simple as stand, face attacker, spray ...

What usually happens is they get bum rushed by a now blinded attacker who is in an absolute rage. If the defender is female, she now has a (likely) much bigger and heavier attacker on top of her.

The correct method is to spray non-stop while moving off of the centerline. Moving in a large semi-circle around the attacker as he charges forward. Be sure to yell commands in a loud and commanding voice for the attacker to get down on the ground as you continue to move around him in that semi-circle. Don't stop spraying him in the eyes until he's down.

I'm heard arm-chair warriors actually advocate spraying at the attacker's chest since it's a bigger target and the smell will waft up into his nostrils anyway. No, that's bull$#!%. Aim for the eyes. Main thing is, keep spraying and get off that damn centerline.

Those are some good advices monocrom. Thanks.

Happy to help. Unfortunately, many learn the hard way that it's not as simple as point and spray.