My 5 year old Maglite mod got stolen :( Need some help to make a new :)

After serving me for 5 years, my Maglite mod got stolen, and i need to make me a new one. I have been researching and using the search tool for a while, but i cant seem to wrap my head around all the new stuff that is going on in the LED world.
The old version i had, was buildt by me almost from scratch. I had a heatsink that i made myself on the lathe at school, driver and led from DX, and my pretty stock Maglite. BUt since i dont have access to that kind of tools anymore, i need a bit of help

What i am looking for is pretty much some tips and help on selecting parts. I will describe what i need, and hopefully get some help

LED: The most bang possible, i want the light output to be as good as possible. Is Cree still the best choise? and if so, what type is good for pure lumens?
Heatsink: I know someone used to be making and selling those, but are they still in buisness?
Driver: high, medium and low are preffered. Also quality stuff, and not cheap poop that fails after a month. My old one lasted 5 years, and i wwant something similar.
Reflector: what are my options?
Lense: what are my options?

Batteries will mostly be regular alkaline, but i may get some rechargable lithium ones in the long run. Time will show.

LED: XM-L2 U3 on 14mm alu or copper pcb
Reflector: KD Mag SMO reflector SKU: S006165 or KD Mag OP reflector SKU: S006166
Heatsink: forum member H22A still sells them, search the forum for "H22A Heatsinks"
Lens: Mineral Glass, DX SKU 5948 or UCL http://www.flashlightlens.com/
Driver: depends on your choice for the host/batteries

Take a look at my Mag4D XML mod here.

Hope this helps.

Awesome! I just found two set of 4D mags for cheap, so ill be modding them.

So far i have managed to get a little bit wiser, And i have some questions about the Rebel Reflecotrs and matching heatsink from H22A.
If those are made from Maglite to use with LEDs, that sould make them more optimal for this kind of use? Or am i wrong here?
H22A makes some Rebel + XM-L optimized heatsinks, so im thinking about going for that combo. Is that a good or bad idea?

What are my options for batteries, and thus no idea about drivers. I want to be able to use regular (alkaline?) batteries, since that is what i can get from the store.
But what are my options if i want to get a bit more modern in my battery choise? Some longer lasting battery packs?

If you want raw lumens then you are not going to be able to use alkalines because they cannot provide the required amps. You will want to use rechargeable, low self discharge NIMH, like Sanyo Eneloop. 16 bay chargers are available so you wouldn't have to charge in batches. NIMH AA batteries are sold pretty much everywhere now as well.

There are many build options depending on whether you want to use a single LED or multiple LED's. A single led setup is going to get you more throw, potentially. The easiest option for a multi LED setup is to go with a Der Wichtel dropin.

Single LED's: MT-G2 or XM-L2, either on copper mcpcb (e.g. Noctigon)
Multiple LED's: XP-G2's, Nichia 219's, Luxeon Rebels. Rebels are also sold on all sizes of stars. Also consider multi emitter boards such as this 7up. The 50mm optic should fit a mag fine.
Single LED Heatsink: H22A, or use one of the universal multi emitter ones and plug or ignore the center hole
Multiple LED heatsinks: Universal 1, 2, Der Wicthel, Luxeon Rebels: 1, 2, 3
Reflector: Phoenix PA11.1 in AQ or Rhodium, or various TIR optics depending on emitter and led count. There are a few multi reflectors for mags as well, and a 50mm single reflector that requires some modding because the lip is too tall.
Drivers: Taskled or various import drivers. Which driver depends on your desired voltage and amperage output
Batteries: Sanyo Eneloop AA's
Battery Holders: 4x4x aa battery carriers in series, for around 22.4 volts max charge, or 4x3x carriers for around 16.8 volts max. Amp draw will be low with a buck driver, but resistance modding the springs may be a good idea. There are also more expensive tenergy ones in 4x series or 4x parallel. With 3 of the the 4x parallel holders in series for 3.6 volts nominal, you could run a taskled LFLEX driver with about 95% efficiency on max output with a single XM-L2.
Lenses: flashlightlens.com
Switches: numerous options on mouser.com and various flashlight shops, depending on your driver. (momentary vs on/off, etc)

Choose the direction you want to go and we can talk more specifics.

Okay, thats usefull information Then NIMH batteries it is then!

I will go with a single LED setup, like my old light. Back then i think it was a SSC P7 i used if memory serves me correct. There was a tutorial on this site that i used to build it.

I like how you can recomend me a spesific type of LED PCB, that i guess are of good quality? Otherwise i would ahve used a simple DX type, that could be prone to failure?
What are the differences between the MT-G2 and the XM-L2? For this spesific build (4D Maglite) i want pure power. I will have it around my house and use it for short periods of time.
I will later do a 2D Magelite build for each of my cars, to have it in the glovebox in case of some emergency.

The MT-G2 will give the most light but also require double the voltage compared to the XM-L2? BUt what heatsink should i use for the MT-G2? one of the flat tops?

Who sells that reflector? And what are the reasoins i should choose that over the Rebel LED or the ones Icarus listed?


Also, this next stuff you are listing is golden knowledge for me! I didnt know this kind of stuff even existed, and was thinking about having to make it myself!
So, looking at the Parallell packs, it should be possible to get 4x1,5V from them which would be right on the money for the MT-G2 right? Only problem is that those you linked with parallell option has only 3 batteries, and not 4 per holder?

So, lets say i would like a recomendations for the MT-G2, and one for the XM-L2, given that i have a 4D mag, and can choose any of the combinations you linked. My knowledge about what driver is the best, and how to match batteris to it, are pretty thin If it has anything to say, i would like to keep the stock Maglite power button, or atleast have something that looks like it. I want the light to look 100% stock except the LED inside it, and the amazing power it has. And i dont need any fancy functions on the drive, the only thing that could be of some use is the 15/50/100% outout modes i see some people have.

Thanks a lot for the help so far!

Glad to help!

I recommended the led's mounted on a "direct thermal path" copper mcpcb because you're probably going to want to overdrive the led such to achieve maximum shine, and aluminum mcpcb's just don't allow for much overdrive potential. The reason for this is that aluminum mcpcb's have a "dielectric layer" between the led and the star. This layer electrically isolates the led from the star and allows for proper soldering, but this dielectric material, despite being about .1mm [.004"] thick, is actually thermally insulative and so restricts heat transfer. The copper stars do not have this dielectric layer. With the wide availability of copper mounted led's these days, they are definitely the way to go unless you are only driving the led's at recommended drive levels, in which case there is minimal difference.

The MT-G2 is currently the big dog of flashlight appropriate LEDs. It differs from the XM-L2 in size, output, voltage, and overall power consumption. The XM-L2 (datasheet) has a dome diameter of 4.52mm [.178"] and will require roughly 3.8 volts at 5 amps, consuming some 19 watts at this drive current, putting out some 1500+ emitter lumens. The MT-G2 (datasheet) has a dome diameter of 8.2mm [.323"] and will require roughly 7 volts at 6.6 amps, consuming about 46 watts at this drive current, putting out about 3200 emitter lumens. The MT-G2 has a more neutral beam color (whiter tint) as well as more consistent color across the beam, though being larger than the XM-L2, will not make as tight of a spot in the same size reflector.

The Phoenix Electroforms PA11.1 reflector that I recommended is a high quality reflector that with the AQ coating should offer about 90% reflectivity. It costs about $40. They sell factory direct from SoCal, USA. Combine this reflector with a good lens and you are looking at less than 15% loss from the optics of your light. This means you could achieve some 2700 out the front lumens from an MT-G2 at 6.6 amps, driven by a Taskled H6Flex driver.

Lets assume you go with an MT-G2 and a Taskled H6Flex driver, which will be capable of sending 6.6 amps to the led. Being a "buck driver," the H6Flex needs overhead voltage of about +1 volt higher than the LED is requiring at any particular drive current. This is to say that if the LED requires 7 volts at 6.6 amps, you need the battery pack to be giving the driver at least 8 volts or the driver will fall out of regulation. 8 or more eneloops will supply this voltage at that drive current. The maximum input voltage for the H6Flex is listed as 21 volts, but also it says 22 volts on the product comparison page, so you might ask George about the absolute maximum input. A fully charged eneloop sits at about 1.4 volts after resting a little, so 16 eneloops (four 4x carriers) would be at 22.4 volts or so which is too much for the driver I imagine, but it may be possible to not smoke it. Three 4x carriers would offer 16.8 volts max... or, though they are expensive, you could go with the 3x series D cell adapters, four of them for the same voltage. You can "program" the H6Flex via button presses to warn and to shut off at particular battery voltages, so you don't have to worry about over discharging. The driver also has temperature monitoring.

The H6 flex driver requires a momentary switch, so you need to modify the stock mag switch to make it momentary. There are a few guides for this. wquiles has the best one I think, but his pictures are down. On taskled drivers the switch only acts to signal the micro controller, and so it does not pass much current. No need to worry about the switch handling 6 amps, in other words.

As far as the heatsink goes, I think the flat top H22A would probably work well. The center post diameter is some 14mm or so... You could thermally epoxy the star to that post, and drill an additional thru hole off to the side for the wires to pass through. Or, the post can be milled off and the star could be epoxied there. I can make or modify a heatsink for you if you need, as I am a machinist and I recently acquired a Haas mini mill for my garage.

BTW, you can go the XM-L2 route for significantly cheaper if money is a factor, using an import reflector, import driver, etc. The above recommendations are without much concern for budget, and reflect my personal preferences in components.

Great! I am getting smarter by the moment here, and the year i had on electronics before i switched to Indistrial Design are coming back to me. So i am trying to build myself a nice little shopping list here:

Single LED's: MT-G2
Single LED Heatsink: H22A, P7 Flat Top "C" and "D" (Available in bare aluminum only)
Reflector: Phoenix PA11.1 in AQ coating (do i just tell them that this is for the Maglite, and i will get the correct reflector? And is there any modding needed on it to make it fit?
Drivers: Taskled H6Flex
Batteries: Sanyo Eneloop AA's
Lenses: flashlightlens.com UCL Lens - 52.1mm

The ones i am not sure about yet are:

Switches: Is there any spesific you would recomend? Most of the tutorials are from 2008 and thus the images are lost in the bowls of the internet. I see some are modifying the stock Maglite switch? Is this a good solution or is it simpler and/or ebtter to do an aftermarked mod there?

Battery Holders: I really dont have a clue about what to get here. I want the most possible batteies, with the longest duration What are the difference between what you refer to as 4x carriers and 3x series D cell adapters? Looking at the cost of the above parts, i dont think i will cheap out on the battery configuration, so anything will go here. But is it not possible to modify the adapters? I am thinking that with 16 batteries, you can run half of them in parallell, and get an end voltage of 11.2V, and 4000MAH if my electronics knowledge serve me correct?.

But you say that the straight forward and easy way is to get 4 of those 3xAA D-cell Adapters?

Also, do i juset glue the driver to the underside of the heatsink using thermal epoxy? Or will it be able to handle the pwoer without cooling, or d i need a custom heatsink?

I have not specifically used the Phoenix PA11.1 reflector for a mag build yet, but it appears to be purpose built to fit into a maglight head, with the OD being 52.3mm, and with it having an integral lip like that. When you talk to Phoenix on the phone they will steer you straight in this regard.

For the switch, I would suggest to modify the stock switch to momentary. This will keep the stock look you want and will be less effort than adding an aftermarket switch into the stock switch housing.

Your suggestion of going 8s2p with the 4x carriers would get you the most runtime, yea. It would be the most electrically efficient as well because the voltage differential between the batteries and the LED would be minimal. Good idea. It should be an easy mod too. Hot gluing or epoxying all of the carriers together after the wiring is complete might be a good move.

The H6flex driver comes with an adhesive thermal pad for mounting it to a heatsink. This is sufficient to keep it cool. Thermal epoxy could be used but the driver mustn't short out on the heatsink. When you solder your wires to the driver you'll want to minimize any stickout through the back. If you look at the backside of the driver, those areas in red are thermal vias. The H22A heatsink is flat on the back which is where the driver should be mounted.

With the 8s2p battery configuration the driver should be about 89% efficient at 6.6 amps and so it will have to dissipate about 5 watts. At lower currents it will be more efficient.

Do the drivers adapt to the input current and voltage automatically? I mean if i buy 3 3xAA adapter first, dan later make a 8s2P adapter later, i can spwap between them without re-programming the driver?
If that is the case, i would buy a 3 standard 3xAA adapters first, then also a set of those cheap 4x adapters for modding purposes. Also, how do you determine the efficiency of the driver? with the 4x3AA setup, how much watt do the driver dissipate?

Someones got a nice wholesome day of product literature reading ahead of them. :devil:

Most led drivers are constant current regulators. LED's have variable resistance depending on their temperature, and relatively minor changes in voltage result in comparatively large changes in current draw. Constant current regulation ensures that despite the LED's changing resistance it will receive a steady amount of current. The entire operating range of a typical led will be less than 1 volt, often more like half of a volt, as this graph illustrates in the case of the XP-G2. A .1 change in voltage between 3.2 and 3.3 volts results in a change in current draw of 1.4 amps!

There are a few pages to read up on regarding the H6Flex driver. It's product page and its technical section. The manual is also worth checking out. Speaking of which, the product page says that the driver can handle up to 25 volts... so there are three different values listed for the maximum input voltage. I sent an email to George to see what the correct figure is.

The efficiency of the H6Flex is the same as the H6CC driver, and the graphs and such illustrating this are on the H6CC technical page. Look at the "2 led" plot on the graphs which is 7 volts out. I corrected my previous post regarding the efficiency. The driver will be about 89% efficient at 6.6 amps output while being fed 9.6 volts or so. It will be more efficient at lower currents which is where the light will be operating for prolonged periods of use. The efficiency really doesn't change much until the voltage differential between the batts and the led gets pretty large. It varies by just a few percent until that point.

The 4x3 carrier configuration will work fine but should provide about 75% of the runtime of a 4s2p configuration. It should still be 89% efficient at 6.6 amps. The efficiency in regard to input voltage varies more at lower drive currents.

I got confirmation from George that the H6Flex can handle up to 25v input, so even 4 x4 carriers will work, but the efficiency would be a couple percent lower overall. 87% or so (vs 89% for lower voltage configurations) at maximum drive current. 6w heat vs 5.1. Not too bad really.

Awesome! If it can pretty much handle everything i throw at it, then i can just start with 16S, and then move to 8Sx2P when i hve figured out the best way to do it.

It's pretty easy to run parallel batteries in a stacked tube. I've made a simple illustration. You might hot glue the carriers together so its nice and rigid and everything stays put. The only tricky part is that the contacts are not particularly removable from the battery holders so if you solder your wires you'll want to be quick about it so you don't melt the plastic. Conductive glue is a possible alternative.

EDIT: 4AA's will not always/typically fit in a D Mag. This is why FM adapters are triple AA configuration.

Nice! That was similar to what i had been thinking about! Good to have that idea confirmed!
But are there any other places i can buy the 4X holders? The link you gave me didnt have them in stock.

I have not seen the round 4x AA holders anywhere else. Another holder option is the Five Mega holders.

Expensive, but looks like a solid quality setup. Will have to check if the Mags i got are wide enough to fit those. And then i can order some of the others later, for a 2p8s mod

Yea, those FM adapters require a quad bored mag, I forgot.

EDIT: 4AA's will not always/typically fit in a D Mag. This is why FM adapters are triple AA configuration.

How much do you think the amp draw will be? Since i cant find a 4xAA anywhere, im going with 3xAA for now.
Will this manage the job? http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S003294

This 3AA->1D adapter is only suitable for low current consumption(0~1000mA) applications. Using it in a high current application may experience high internal resistance!

Click to expand...

Well, the amp draw is going to be less than the led draw since the buck driver basically converts the excess voltage into amperage, but you're still probably going to be pulling 3.5 amps from the batteries or so, using 12 cells. You could "resistance mod" the springs by soldering solder wick from the top of the spring to the contact pad below. The current will more easily flow that way.

that is the springs in the adapter?