A Bit of News on the SCO vs IBM/Linux case

Mutie

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Your link is broken. Try this one.

I still have a couple of SCO servers that are running our old application and a few services. But we are going to be moving everything to Linux servers and at this point nobody even uses our old apps even for history so we won't be moving that. SCO used to be my favorite Unix and SCO Xenix was the best around back in the day. But they aren't SCO anymore and this will kill what is left I think. I did one Unixware installation and didn't really like it. Open Server was much better in my opinion.

Mutech
 

Harrkev

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Now, the fun begins. I have been waiting for SCO to get creamed in court. It is finally starting to happen! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Thanks Mutiny. Should have previewed first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I also hope that SCO is wrong. If I remember correctly (don't ask for link), Novell is the one that put Unixware code into Linux, after opening the Unixware code through System 7, when Novell had all of the Unixware IP rights.

If SCO is wrong and what they are attempting is a huge IP grab (aka theft via legal system), then they are going to be in a world of legal trouble, from all directions.

There was a similar case, from years ago with BSD as the defendant, where the ruling was that identical code that is independently derived, does not infringe.

Anyways, this is going to be an interesting case, since not only the legality, but the Constitutionality of the GPL is being attacked by SCO. This case may well end up in the US Supreme Court.
 

Tomas

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Some more response to SCO's claims about GPL ...

Lessig an Moglen are very solid and clear voices on law.

I've been following Pamela's digging over a Groklaw, and she and her elves have dug up a lot of very interesting data. If I were a betting person I'd put my money on the 'Lawyers from Armonk'(IBM) and RedHat.


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PhotonBoy

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Coasting in the background, I think, is a looming problem at Micro$oft. Recently we've seen M$ licensing changes, migration to open software plus exploding costs of controlling worms and viruses. One figure I've seen indicates that M$ has lost more than $450 million in new sales caused by customers coping with virus/worm problems. Next: layoffs at M$?
 

Mutie

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Here is a whole series of articles on Eweek about it. I haven't been following this at all so it was good to catch up.

I had no idea that Novell was buying Suse. Very interesting as it was Novell that bought Unix from ATT and then ended up selling it to SCO. Seems like they are doing almost the same thing again.

Also noted that there was a big DDOS against SCO yesterday.

Mutech
 

Tomas

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"DDOS on SCO" ...

Some data:

ftp.sco.com is 216.250.128.13. www.sco.com is 216.250.128.12. They are on the same network segment. However, the first is completely and normally responsive, while the second is entirely unresponsive. This is not in any way characteristic of any sort of modern flood-type denial-of-service attack -- that is, a DDoS aimed at flooding the network itself. Whatever is disturbing SCO, it is not a DoS of the sort they evidently believe it to be.

Unfortunately, SCO has taken the "cargo cult security" measure of blocking pings, so it is not possible to gather any information about their disturbance in that fashion.

("SYN flood" is obviously wrong. Although some firewalls and IDS still report TCP-based DoS floods as "SYN floods", the condition that used to be associated with SYN floods has been fixed in current operating systems. Unless they are running a system old enough to be called grossly negligent (well, they ARE running "UnixWare"), they aren't susceptible to TCB starvation. The current unavailability of www.sco.com looks more like someone tripped over the Ethernet cable.)

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Charles Bradshaw

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If I recall correctly, there was one major bank that used Unix and a particular asset calculation took 24 hours to complete. They switched to Linux and the same calculation took an Hour. Same hardware. I remember this from ZDNet News about a year or so ago.

Another instance of Linux replacing Unix is in the Movie Industry. Some companies ripped IRIX (SGI's Unixware flavor) off of the SGI hardware, and put Linux on it. The performance increase in render times was amazing. What used to take the entire night to render, is now done in near Real time.

Also factor in that places like Sandia National Laboratories are building Beowulf Clusters using commodity hardware and Beowulf Linux. This is the cheap supercomputer (compared to systems like the Cray 2).

So, given the above, which is the superior operating system??

1. Unixware
2. Linux

On another note, SCO also claims that code that is different, is Subterfuge and an attempt to disguise Unixware code, and as a result, SCO owns the IP rights to it. What does that smell like to you?

I have read the GPL and it clearly encourages authors to Copyright their code, first, as well as stating Free as in freedom, not Free as in Beer.
 

Klaus

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Second Tomas in regards to PJ and Groklaw - whoever wants the real story should surf by GROKLAW

I hope those SCOX-scams will end where they deserve

Klaus
 

Tomas

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Charles, one of the big advantages of GNU/Linux over various flavors of UNIX is the open source of the former. Since the source is open and anyone can play with it, it is much easier (and cheaper! My UNIX license cost me over $1500.) to make changes to the base system to custom hone it to a fine edge for one's own particular needs.

This was the big advantage of Linux variants over UNIX variants for the rendering companies: They were able to customize the entire OS for their particular needs rather than using a general purpos OS - tremendous increase of speed.

Banks used to use a lot of different OSs for their base - many used Pike, which was an odd variant of UNIX System III redesigned for financials. It was specificly for multi-processor machines and is a fault-tolerant system that is constantly comparing the output of the processors all doing the same job. If there is a disagreement the calc is done again until the majority of prosessors agree. Tandem also had a similar UNIX based system for banks and ATMs. Both were quite slow but incredibly reliable.

That is changing now and many functions are being moved to general purpose OSs.

Worst of that, currently, is many ATMs are being moved off the dedicated high-security OSs onto MS Windows XP and customers are now seeing the BSOD and MS Windows errors at their ATMs (especially Diebold).

(Side Note: The first UNIX system I bought ('85) was a UNIX III based OS made by SCO ... Most of my UNIX exposure was to BTL UNIX at Bell Labs and AIX and BTL UNIX at the operating companies. These days I'm running a BSD based UNIX, though I still have my old 1985 SCO running machine, and it still works fine ... )

In 1972, UNIX was the best thing since sliced bread, but in the over thirty years since then other things have come along that may be better. GNU/Linux was originally just a 'clean room' reconstruction of UNIX functionality, but has grown waaaaay beyond that with thousands of people working tirelessly on it. Because of being closed, the UNIX flavors have not kept up.

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Charles Bradshaw

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I have never had exposure to UNIX or BSD. My first exposure to a Unix-like OS, is Linux. I first got interested when I lived in Columbus, Ohio, and saw Redhat Linux in Software Boutique back in 1998. It wasn't ready for me at the time, and I only had a notebook. I bided my time, did some research, and settled on the Mandrake distribution as best suiting my needs, and having the best hardware support.

You hit the nail on the head on closed vs open source. I think we may have hit on the real core of SCO's desperate attempt: Unix is being replaced by Linux on the systems that had Unix. That would not happen, unless Linux was better, no matter what the price.
 

Mutie

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I cut my teeth on SCO Xenix back in 1985 or so. At the time it was the most happening Unix and just about the only one for Intel. The whole thing came on 7 1.2 MB 5.25 floppies and only took about 10 MB disk space.

I agree though that Linux is making all the advances. I only have limited experience so far with it and my Unix background is mostly Open Server and a bit of Solaris and I was not very impressed with the GUI interface or admin on either. My browser on SCO is Netscape 4.05 and it gets errors opening up the SCO page.

But maybe we should quit bagging on "Dad" so much. Afterall that is in theory the one true Unix. And probably "Dad" is being controlled by the evil Emperor.

OS Wars Episode V - The Empire strikes back.

SCO Vader "I am your father Linus, many moons ago I purchased the one true Unix from Novell who purchased it from ATT. Join me and as father and son we shall rule the OS universe."

"Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo". Linus gets his hand cut off by light saber. Later we learn that Linus gets way cooler bio-mech prothesis.

Flashing back to episode I we learn that the enperor originally licensed Unix from ATT (before even dos was born) and turned over the port to his fledgling son (SCO) as well as Tandy and IBM amoung others. Yes folks Microsoft Xenix and until 1985 or so internal Microsoft systems were run on Xenix.

In episode II SCO grows up and the most popular Unix variant is theirs. Microsoft ends up paying ATT to include Xenix extensions in System V. The SCO version is so popular that ATT grants SCO the very first license to actually call their version Unix.

In episode III ATT sells the Unix license to Novell and quits the OS business. And the rights to the Unix name (except for SCO's license) go to the XOPEN group. SCO in turn buys the Unix license from Novell and Emperor Bill sells their remaining interest in SCO. Only to license the rights again this year.

Stay tuned for episode VI. Will Linus be lured to the darkside and pay the fess? Or will SCO Vader having captured Linus and trying to goad him into betraying his anger against the emperor end up turning when he sees his son being destroyed and throw the emperor down the shaft only to die but at least redeemed?

Stay tuned for the exciting SQL's.

Mutech
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Colorfully put, Mutiny. You know, if SCO loses big time, as I think and hope they will, I can see them closing Unix forever and forever forbidding anyone from ever using it again out of spite (or trying to).

I have seen that in the US 'Justice' System, NEVER count on justice. It is a Legal system and Justice rarely has anything to do with it.

Only time will tell in this case. If I were the Judge in this case, I would issue a 2 part injunction, first to forbid charging Linux License Fees by SCO, and secondly, to Forbid SCO stockholders from selling their SCO shares, wherein they are employed by SCO. This Injunction would be in effect until the case was was fully settled in Court, up to and including the US Supreme Court.
 

James S

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Charles, in this case we don't have to rely on "justice" we can rely on IBM and all the other companies that have been investing themselves in Linux. SCO has a terrific sugar daddy in Microsoft, but that will only buy them so much. There are BIG pockets involved here.

MS and IBM are pretty well matched when it comes to waiting out a multi-decade lawsuit though. I find it fascinating to watch.

I wonder what MS does with the SCO license they have paid for?
 
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