I'm sort of a newbie but someone pls shed some light here. I know that someone is going to mention heat but I'm confused. If the run time for a pd35 Fenix or TK35 is one hr on turbo, why does it only last 10 minutes then switch down to low. Am I being too picky here? Anyone own one, if so does this go on and on every 10 minutes till it hits low? 'What if I just want it on medium, will it go down after a few minutes?
Is it just me, or is that false advertising?
- Thread starter erock05
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dc38
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not false advertising, but an unfortunate marketing ploy by many manufacturers. ANSI states a lumen count at a runtime of 3 minutes. Most Manu will leave the light running and incorporate a step down to meet ANSI and heat safety.
That's upsetting, they shouldn't advertise it like that then. I really want one but that's the only thing that's stopping me from getting one. Do you know if it does that on all modes? I guess I'll stick to getting a stream light protac for now. The heat didn't bother much when I owned an older sure fire Incan but that's because I wear gloves most of the times.
dc38
Flashlight Enthusiast
NP! I believe that stepdowns should occur only in turbo or max modes to reduce the heat buildup in the head. On lower modes, they should run for as long as the cells allow or it gets too hot to hold.
p.s., don't worry too much about the drop down. On paper, an almost 50% decrease in lumens seems like a lot, but apparent brightness shouldn't be too adversely affected. As many have mentioned before, the perceived light requires a logarithmic increase for each noticeable increase in light. Also, if you've observed enough flashlights or are a super genius who automatically processes and compensates for multiple brightnesses, you'll find it quite difficult to accurately guess how bright something is without a frame of reference, ie another flashlight with known brightnesses.
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dc38
Flashlight Enthusiast
...which is why I think e rock was asking, lol
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do not worry about it many lights drop down from turbo to high and in the case of the PD35 it happens in 5 minutes.All other levels will remain.
ps from experience the turbo mode is to bright for close up inside work but brilliant outside.
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Sophie2013
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 16
Stepping down only happens on turbo mode for better heat dissipation. It can well protect your torch and guarantee a long lifespan, so there's no need to worry about it. In fact, when the light steps down, you can reset to its turbo mode manually.
Laws of physics. Lumens sells flashlights, but everything comes with a price. If you really need all that much light get a bigger light. Pocket lights are pocket lights.
Everyone is in a race to see who can put the biggest number on the front of their box, regardless of whether it's actually practical, because that's what people want. Honestly, I doubt you could tell the difference between 800 and 500 lumens with two lights held side by side. The lights step down automatically because they are over driving the emitters to begin with. ANSI is the standard and, as long as they go by their rules, they can put any insane number on the front of the box they want to.
Focus on the light (Ergonomics, features, tint, beam) and not so much on that number on the box. It's pretty meaningless.
Everyone is in a race to see who can put the biggest number on the front of their box, regardless of whether it's actually practical, because that's what people want. Honestly, I doubt you could tell the difference between 800 and 500 lumens with two lights held side by side. The lights step down automatically because they are over driving the emitters to begin with. ANSI is the standard and, as long as they go by their rules, they can put any insane number on the front of the box they want to.
Focus on the light (Ergonomics, features, tint, beam) and not so much on that number on the box. It's pretty meaningless.
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True, albeit the number on the box is not meaningless. It's meaning is the total output the light is capable of....but, the way that light is distributed, and rationed out, can make a light with a lower number more useful in many circumstances, but not all.
So, you are saying that the number is not the time the light stays on at some level when you start out at the highest level, but instead the sum of the short times at highest level allowing time to cool if necessary?
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dc38
Flashlight Enthusiast
Depending on the manufacturer, they could either be doing cumulative runtimes (3 minute bursts and allowed to cool before max burst again) or running the light continually through the drop down until dead. The nite core EA4 max mode is based on the latter, running its cells until dead including the drop down.
Yeah, they seem inconsistant in how they do it, but its typically along the lines of turning it on, in turbo, to get the max lumens/cd numbers...and, letting it run until it steps down to high, and then letting it run until it can't maintain high....and calling that total number of minutes the total on turbo or high, depending on what their advertising dept/engineers agree upon, etc.
How do you plan to use the light? Most users use the light on turbo levels for durations a lot less than the stepdown intervals like three to five minutes. For example, as an LEO, I only use max mode and rarely have max on for more than 3 minutes per call. For an article search or traffic control, the stepdown is very tough to notice from the uses perception as well as the target.
If you do any S&r work, then I do see the importance of flat reflation w/o stepdown but remember, the stepdown will still give near the same perceivable light.
I just got Malkoff MD2 high/low and that thing really does have horizon flat regulation, true to specs. Streamlight pro tac lights are also very good choices as they are very well know for flat, no dipping output throughout the life of batteries. As mentioned by many on this thread, manufacturers are pushing the outputs of the LEDs to give crazy high output at the expense of flat runtime with stepdowns. That's why duty/work lights aren't on the lumen train to give the best numbers on paper when demanding users prefer consistency and battery life.
For the PD35, only turbo and high will stepdown if left on for extended periods. Medium will sustain and not dip.
If you do any S&r work, then I do see the importance of flat reflation w/o stepdown but remember, the stepdown will still give near the same perceivable light.
I just got Malkoff MD2 high/low and that thing really does have horizon flat regulation, true to specs. Streamlight pro tac lights are also very good choices as they are very well know for flat, no dipping output throughout the life of batteries. As mentioned by many on this thread, manufacturers are pushing the outputs of the LEDs to give crazy high output at the expense of flat runtime with stepdowns. That's why duty/work lights aren't on the lumen train to give the best numbers on paper when demanding users prefer consistency and battery life.
For the PD35, only turbo and high will stepdown if left on for extended periods. Medium will sustain and not dip.
Not all lights step down like that. Some lights are actually well designed with respect to thermal management, such as the American made lights which were just mentioned by TheVat26.
What you are seeing with these step-downs is typical Chinese design.
What you are seeing with these step-downs is typical Chinese design.
This false advertising topic is near and dear to me... I started testing my lights with a light meter (DSLR and even free smartphone light meter apps) and stopwatch, and also compare/reconcile with Selfbuilt's results for over a year now to flush out the B/S. You learn all the gaming tricks and which manufacturers like to play them. The ANSI regulations don't help much - the rules are wide enough to drive a truck through - this one of the best examples I've ever seen (see first output/runtime graph):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?296992-Maglite-XL50-LED-Flashlight-Review
Each manufacturer employs their own level of conservatism/exaggeration - I personally tend repeat purchase from the conservative ones - just something about their humble honesty just appeals to me. Just on the harder driven "turbo" step-down issue, here's a few examples of how I've seen manufacturers it handled:
- No mention - automatically steps down after ANSI time limit, and so is compliant
- No mention - but cell can't handle the amperage more than a couple of minutes, so it effectively steps-down as much as the auto stepdowns.
- Full disclosure "burst mode, X mins then steps down to Y"
- Understatement.... Spec is at lower stepped-down level, tiny foot note about the stepped-up lumen level for 3 mins.
I don't care about turbos or maximums, my personal interest is efficiency on a lumen-hour basis (lumens x hours), particularly on the lower end which I use the most. I know of 4 directly competing lights from reputable companies (3 of which I own and have tested, and the 4th tested by Selfbuilt - the results of which I can extrapolate from). The two exaggerating manufacturers spec lumen-hrs across all their modes to be almost DOUBLE that of the two conservative manufacturers while all tests indicate that they are more or less equal. While they are all good lights, ONLY the two conservative manufacturers have rec'd multiple repeat purchases for myself and from friend/family I recommend to.
Vote with your dollars.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?296992-Maglite-XL50-LED-Flashlight-Review
Each manufacturer employs their own level of conservatism/exaggeration - I personally tend repeat purchase from the conservative ones - just something about their humble honesty just appeals to me. Just on the harder driven "turbo" step-down issue, here's a few examples of how I've seen manufacturers it handled:
- No mention - automatically steps down after ANSI time limit, and so is compliant
- No mention - but cell can't handle the amperage more than a couple of minutes, so it effectively steps-down as much as the auto stepdowns.
- Full disclosure "burst mode, X mins then steps down to Y"
- Understatement.... Spec is at lower stepped-down level, tiny foot note about the stepped-up lumen level for 3 mins.
I don't care about turbos or maximums, my personal interest is efficiency on a lumen-hour basis (lumens x hours), particularly on the lower end which I use the most. I know of 4 directly competing lights from reputable companies (3 of which I own and have tested, and the 4th tested by Selfbuilt - the results of which I can extrapolate from). The two exaggerating manufacturers spec lumen-hrs across all their modes to be almost DOUBLE that of the two conservative manufacturers while all tests indicate that they are more or less equal. While they are all good lights, ONLY the two conservative manufacturers have rec'd multiple repeat purchases for myself and from friend/family I recommend to.
Vote with your dollars.
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
Where are you getting the information about the light stepping down when in high mode,not used mine for any real length in time to notice but could not find no mention of it in the instructions.
I think we should tone down the patriotic thing a bit there twl... while I often agree with you, particularly with disingenuous manufacturer's marketing, warranty and customer service practices, I wouldn't strictly lump things into nationalistic buckets too much.
For one, I linked an American manufacturer above, for another, I own a Malkoff MDC AA and Peak El Cap (as a collector in the 1xAA/14500/sub-lumen category) and there are very good reasons why these American lights don't need step-downs while the equivalent Chinese lights do (eg, shear output). Not saying anyone is better than the other, it just depends on your priorities.
(That said, I'll agree there's a significantly higher percentage of disingenuous Chinese manufacturers than American)
BillSWPA
Enlightened
I really appreciate the reviews here, with the runtime graphs, so that we can see what we are really getting. I think it is borderline dishonest to advertise a light advertised at x lumens for y hours, when in reality the x lumens is only for a few minutes, and the y hours is the time until you can no longer see light coming out of the LED (even though the light stopped being useful a long time before this). I would much rather have a light with lower advertised performance, but that can really provide x lumens for y hours without overdriving the LED.
I really have to respect Malkoff for their specifications. They are among the few who, when they advertise x lumens for y hours, you actually get x lumens for y hours. FourSevens also appears to be good at giving honest assessments of their lights' performance.
I really have to respect Malkoff for their specifications. They are among the few who, when they advertise x lumens for y hours, you actually get x lumens for y hours. FourSevens also appears to be good at giving honest assessments of their lights' performance.
