Price vs. Quality

Hello, this is my first post here. I tried searching this forum for what is very basic info but couldn't find what i'm looking for, although i bet it's here somewhere.
I have just ordered 2 LED flashlights from a bricks & mortar store in Florida that also has a website and sells online. One is a "Super Zoom X-80 Cree LED Flashlight" about 2200 lumens $160 and the other "STR8 Beam SP-2 CREE LED Spotlight" plus 2x 4000 Mah batteries and charger for $114. I also ordered a gun mount for this latter one. Neither flashlight is branded.
I have also searched ebay and there are many sellers of flashlights in China with what look to be almost identical flashlights (same specs) for under $20 shipped.
All of these flashlights are of parts made and assembled in China.
Am i getting a superior product by paying ten times the amount to a Florida 'light' retailer ?
There is so much info, so many flashlights, all changing by the month that it is difficult to make wise choices.
thanks eh, kootenay joe

I'd get my money back and buy a brand name product.

You can probably find a Surefire 6P online for around $50-$60. Put a Malkoff led drop-in in it, and you have one one of the most rugged, reliable, and versatile lights on the planet. If you can find one or two discontinued SF A19 single-cell-extenders, you can increase the versatility even more.

Do some research here on CPF, and don't scrimp on a Li-ion charger. Get the best you can get, and then get AW brand 'protected' rechargeable cells, and a cheap digital multimeter to check them with. Read the horror stories here on CPF so you know what you are getting into, and can make an emotional commitment to being a safe Li-ion user. There was a local story here a few days ago about a local e-cigarette user whose Li-ion cell (probably cheap) blew up while charging, and a piece of it set his bed on fire. There was another man several years ago in this country whose cell blew while he was smoking, and it took out most of his teeth. Be safe.

I apologize if I went too OT.

If you see a Chinese version that looks identical, there are decent odds that the US company is just rebadging it and adding a markup. This is actually pretty common with third-tier flashlight companies.

Cancel your order and do some research. You can always get those lights again if you decide that you are happy with the deal.

Check the budget light section, they might know better for the specific model you're looking at. For $160, you can get a very high quality light, the names of the lights you've ordered suggest they are not in the $100+ category.

kootenay joe said:

Am i getting a superior product by paying ten times the amount to a Florida 'light' retailer ?

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I googled the lights you mentioned. A few comments:

• There are no 4000mAh 18650 batteries (except perhaps in the Panasonic R&D laboratory). There are plenty of crappy dealers claiming other, though.
• You can't get 2000lm from a single XM-L in a stock light, and certainly not with only one 18650 battery or (sic) 3*AAA batteries. 1000 lumens is possible (with 18650). With zoom, less than that. With 3*AAA, perhaps 300 lumens.
• high, med, low, strobe, sos is a very common mode selection in cheap chinese lights. I don't remember seeing any high quality flashlight with such a UI.
• 3000 hour bulb lifespan? I thought these were led lights?

I could make more comments but the bottom line is this: I wouldn't buy them, and certainly I wouldn't buy them for such a high price. For the $274 you paid, you should get two lights from good manufacturers like Foursevens, Fenix, Sunwayman or such + a good charger from Xtar, together with good batteries from AW, Redilast, Keeppower, Enerpower or Xtar.

:welcome:

Poppy said:

I'd get my money back and buy a brand name product.

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^ This!



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Im new to this forum but not nice high quality lights. Like everyone else said, get your money back and buy a quality light!
i.e Surefire, Streamlight, Fenix, Olight, ect.....

Here we are in the year 2014, and it seems that the price of quality in a light has come down a bit. I believe that a person can get a quality light in the area of $30 whereas a year ago, he may have had to pay $50. There is certainly a point of diminishing returns, where one may pay more, and get better quality, or more custom, or variations on the tint, or variations of the UI, or maybe a little better efficiency. To the average Joe, the light will still be a light, and it will blow away anyone who has not owned anything but an incandescent.

BTW... to the list of quality manufacturers I'd like to add one that doesn't get a lot of press around here... Convoy. I think they only make 18650 lights at this time, but they are low cost Quality lights.

Oh and one more thing... I agree with Jash

Jash said:

^ This!



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Jash said:

^ This!



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+1

and:welcome:

+ Decent "budget" lights,look into convoy brand,very good value to and choice of tints etc:thumbsup:

The middle 2 lights are a convoy m2 and roche f8,both sub $30 lights,imho would go the 12 rounds with similar fenix lights and maybe loose on points.........


Just examples,check review section,ask any unsure questions:thumbsup:

Most important thing to take from here is your here!!! so now you can find the better value lights to the higher end lights still well under your amount paid out.

Money back,take from there,lots of helpful chaps and chapesses on here:twothumbs

I have a convoy m1 in my pocket right now. Xml2 at 3a. It's very bright compact durable and all the parts totaled about $25. Host, driver and xml2

To add $160 is over the cost of a standard fenix tk75 at a "proper 2900lm"........that will do everything and more required for most needs
Have a look in reviews or do a search on here,only an example of good value light thats good at everything,lots more than that:naughty:

First welcome!

Second if your new to li-ion, you should read about the danger of over charging and over discharging the batteries.

If your planning on attaching that to a gun, I would go for a better quality light. Maybe something like the predator Viking that can withstand the recoil. Not to say the one you order won't work just saying quality has less chance to fail and in an event of a failure you can also get better customer service.

I'm all for deals and "price versus quality" is different for everyone.

That said, do some reading and never, ever just judge a product by the published numbers. While they may be in the strictest sense, factually accurate, invariably there is a bigger picture that is not being portrayed.

I'm a big believer in brand names as a means of determining general quality of a product and customer service behind a product - so personally, I wouldn't spend that much money on an unknown.

Compared to probably most people on this forum I am not even close to knowledgeable about flashlights but I think I've learned a bit over the past year or two. Enough to know that if you can, I would strongly suggest canceling that order. You can get MUCH better lights than those for a lot less money. On the lights you bought, the lumen ratings are way overblown which is commonly seen in budget lights. The battery mah ratings are also way overblown, which is commonly seen in crappy batteries. I recently bought a Nitecore P12 and a Sunwayman D40A for less money combined than you paid for one of those lights.

I also have a bunch of budget lights that are bright as hell and a lot of fun to play with but I didn't pay more than $25 for any of them.

Is canceling the order an option for you?

Wow ! No doubt about what i need to do. Thanks to all for taking the time to help me. Everyone saying the same thing, "cancel", is powerful evidence of truth. I will call & cancel right after i post.
I live on a 90 acre piece of isolated mountainside, end of a 12 mile one lane dirt road. On a dark night it's black. No ambient light, especially when the power is out, which is frequent. I have a 30 acre field below the house which often has elk in it. There's also coyotes, bear, and very occasional wolf and my dog.
When there is some 'commotion' at night i would like to have a light that throws a "spot" of light at least 500 yards. Also an ability to focus the beam because at other times it would be nice to have it as a reasonably broad beam that also has distance.
"Reading up" on technical reports and independent testing i have tried, but do not really understand what i am reading. Hopefully this is a common experience (at 67 you question your own mind) with a learning curve that starts soon.
I am a knife collector with way too many knives, knife addict as much as collector. Many of the current China production knives are among the best being made anywhere worldwide, price independent. Factor in price and it's impossible to understand how you can have such good quality for under $20 delivered. Go up to $90 and you are rivaling Customs costing $500-$1000. This is why i wondered if the $20 flashlights from ebay sellers in China might be a good deal.
At present i have no understanding of how to assess the components that make up the light, batteries and charger.
If anyone wants to post a recommendation for a flashlight that will do what i've outlined above and is very good 'bang for the buck' i would follow up on those leads.
Seems like a friendly helpful forum with state of the art knowledge. Thank you. I'll stay. I have everything to learn.
kj

If you really need to reach out to 500 yards, you might take a look at the Thrunite TN32, if however 200-250 yards would work for you, the Thrunite TN35 would give you a much wider beam of light at that range.

You mentioned that you wanted a light that you could focus. Flashlights are tools just like knives or firearms and as such there is different tools for different jobs. I would say that there isn't one light that could do it all, such as as spotlight and a flood light in one.

Given your situation, I would seriously look at having different lights that have dedicated jobs. For instance, you said that you wanted a 500+ yard light. There are many great lights on the market that could fit that role nicely, but these lights are usually large and a pain to carry everywhere. But it would also be nice to have a light that is small and powerful that you could easily carry on your belt in in a pocket that could be used for smaller jobs.

Based on what you said I would seriously look at the Fenix brand of lights. They are Chinese but are bomb proof, have a tremendous reputation and are reasonably priced. I would consider the Fenix PD 35 for an every day carry, it takes 2x cr123 batteries but it can also take a rechargeable 18650. For a spotter I would look at the Fenix TK 75, it takes 4x 18650 rechargeable batteries and is also bomb proof.
Both lights will run you about $300-$350

As a big pusher of bricks and mortar lights due to cost saving over branded i think you have reversed the trend and paid a lot more than needed.

Here are selfbuilt's reviews of the Fenix TK75, Thrunite TN30, TN31 and TN32

The crest of the hill in the foreground is 30 yards, the trees in the back are 100 yards.

TN 30-31

TK75 - TN30

TN31 - TN32

As a side note... reputable manufacturers use ANSI standards when reporting beam distance. ANSI standards for max beam distance is how far it will throw to 0.25 lux. At 100 yards or more, while you might be able to see 0.25 lux worth of light hit something, that won't be enough light for you to make out what it is.

Take the reported max beam throw and cut it in half for the distance that you'll get one lux.

to get one lux at 500 yards, you'll need a light with a cd of 250,000 cd.
To actually SEE something at that distance, you may need 3-5 lux meaning that you'll need a light to deliver 750,000 - 1,250,000 cd.
I'm sure there are lights that will deliver but you'll have a pencil thin beam of light.

Of those lights listed above, the TN32 has the highest reported cd @ 240,000 cd.

I think that focus mechanisms are no longer necessary on modern flashlights, except for in some very unique circumstances, like art photography. The beam profile and high output of LEDs make them much more effective for both long range and close up work than any consumer-grade incandescent flashlight ever was.

It's a bit of a time sink, but Marshall from Going Gear has an excellent series of YouTube videos where he demonstrates many of the modern production flashlights. As a starting point, you might check out the video for the Eagletac SX25L3.