Throw Question

Hi everyone. New to the forum, so apologies in advance if I'm posting in the wrong place or if the answer already exists (couldn't find it though if it does), or if I just generally say something stupid.

I have an Ultrafire 502B with a Cree XM-L and a single 18650 (orbtronic 2900). I typically attach this to a home defense shotgun, and it does a wonderful job of illuminating the entire house. I attached this to my AR15 a few weeks ago for a hog hunt, and I decided that it didn't have quite enough throw for the 110 yards between the blind and the feeder. So, I've spent countless hours over the last few days becoming a neophyte flashaholic and learning everything I can to find the proper flashlight for that job.

Based on all the amazing reviews from selfbuilt, I think I'm pretty much decided on an Olight M22. It seems to have the right throw and features that I'm looking for in that size/form factor. Based on the numbers in the review, that light would put out about 1.9 lux at 110yards. I've read in many of the threads that the typical .25 lux that is used for the Ansi throw distance is not really enough, and I should look for 1 lux, which is basically half the distance. With that in mind, 1.9 sounds pretty good. However, that brings me to my question. I don't have a good practical understanding of what 1.9 lux looks like and how that would compare to what I saw with my 502B.

Naturally, I looked for a review on this site of the 502B with an XM-L emitter that included ANSI numbers, but I couldn't find one. So, I tried googling the interwebs for the candela, lux, throw, anything for the 502B, and I can't find squat. So, I don't have a good way of conceptually comparing the 1.9 lux I'd get with the M22 to what I saw. For all I know, I was already getting 1.9 lux, and this won't help. On the other hand, the 502B could be much floodier (is that a word?) and the M22 could be 1000 times better.

Has anyone measured a 502B's luminous intensity (hope that's right) such that they can help me compare the two? If that's not doable, a close second would be to show me a picture of what 1.9 lux would look like lighting up some woods.

As a side note, I may also get something even throwier later such as an M3x. However, at this time, I don't have enough zoom in the optics to warrant anything that far, and I'd prefer the single 18650 form factor.

Thanks in advance,

Cyclone

I am not familiar with the Ultrafire 502B, but from what I read on Budgetlightforums it is a P60-based host. P60 is a standard that Surefire originally developed for incandescent flashlights, the reflector and head spring are completely interchangeable with other P60 modules so you can swap reflector and LED module by buying new P60 modules, while keeping the same body and tail and head.

If your current drop-in reflector is orange peel instead of a flat smooth reflector, you will have a less penetrating hot spot and a brighter spill. A smooth reflector helps to concentrate the light into the hot spot, which is what provides much better throw. So you definitely want to acquire a light with a smooth reflector if you want a thrower. A P60 module with an XP-G2 dedome LED from Vinh might be one such option: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Ins-All-Copper-Bonded-PCBs-even-XP-G2s-MT-G2-) << highly recommended source, his thread describes which LED offers the best throw. I suggest the XP-G2 because it has a little more spill then the XP-E.

Since you mention that you are attaching the light to shotgun, I want to mention that I see the Olight M22 only has a spring on the head and the tail cap has a solid rod. When you shoot the shotgun, the battery will rattle around and so having that rod at the base could damage your batteries after a few rounds. For something with a heavier recoil you will want springs on both the head and the tail.

Last suggestion - look for something that comes on in high mode first. Welcome to CPF!

I am familiar with the Ultrafire 502B, and the 501B. They both have floody beam patterns. I do not have any personal experience with a light in that size that would meet your needs at that distance. But, isn't 110 yards from the feeder a bit extreme? I'd think that 50 yards would be plenty to insure your safety, and would give better odds on a clean 1-shot kill. But while being a hunter, I've never hunted hogs. As LowFlux mentioned, the recoil could damage a light that did not have battery contact springs at both ends, but with the AR-15 you do not have nearly as much recoil as your home defense shotgun, either. And I agree with LowFlux that coming on in High mode 1st is a must have. Another thing to keep in mind when choosing a light is the head diameter. It must be small enough to clear the weapon when installed in the weapon's accessory mounting bracket. Good luck with your search for a flashlight that meets your needs, may you stay safe while hunting. And, Welcome to CPF!

for more throw, a D36 based host + inserts (+ smooth reflector) might be better suited?

nailbender makes inserts and there should be some hosts from fivemega

LowFlux said:

If your current drop-in reflector is orange peel instead of a flat smooth reflector, you will have a less penetrating hot spot and a brighter spill. A smooth reflector helps to concentrate the light into the hot spot, which is what provides much better throw. So you definitely want to acquire a light with a smooth reflector if you want a thrower. A P60 module with an XP-G2 dedome LED from Vinh might be one such option: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Ins-All-Copper-Bonded-PCBs-even-XP-G2s-MT-G2-) << highly recommended source, his thread describes which LED offers the best throw. I suggest the XP-G2 because it has a little more spill then the XP-E.

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Thanks for the feedback. I need to read up more on the reflector types.

LowFlux said:

Since you mention that you are attaching the light to shotgun, I want to mention that I see the Olight M22 only has a spring on the head and the tail cap has a solid rod. When you shoot the shotgun, the battery will rattle around and so having that rod at the base could damage your batteries after a few rounds. For something with a heavier recoil you will want springs on both the head and the tail.

Last suggestion - look for something that comes on in high mode first. Welcome to CPF!

Click to expand...

Great catch on the tail spring. I was specifically looking for a spring on the head for that very reason, and I totally missed the lack of a tail spring. Since this is for an AR15, it will have significantly less recoil than a 12 gauge, but it could definitely still be a problem. If anyone has specific experience with spring / no spring using an AR15, I'd love to hear it.

flitter296 said:

I am familiar with the Ultrafire 502B, and the 501B. They both have floody beam patterns. I do not have any personal experience with a light in that size that would meet your needs at that distance. But, isn't 110 yards from the feeder a bit extreme? I'd think that 50 yards would be plenty to insure your safety, and would give better odds on a clean 1-shot kill. But while being a hunter, I've never hunted hogs.

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You're absolutely right that 50 yards would be plenty. However, it isn't my stand/feeder, so I have no say in the matter.

flitter296 said:

As LowFlux mentioned, the recoil could damage a light that did not have battery contact springs at both ends, but with the AR-15 you do not have nearly as much recoil as your home defense shotgun, either. And I agree with LowFlux that coming on in High mode 1st is a must have.

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I think the M22 has the option to come on in High regardless of current setting if you double tap it. Is something like that what you are referring to, or do you mean that it literally just always comes on in high no matter what.

flitter296 said:

Another thing to keep in mind when choosing a light is the head diameter. It must be small enough to clear the weapon when installed in the weapon's accessory mounting bracket.

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Very true. In my case, I should have plenty of room. I really could even go with a larger head like the m3X because it's mounted to a flashlight holder that's on the end of a quad rail, so the barrel is pretty far away. I'd like something smaller though so that it's lighter, more accessible from front grip, and generally less obnoxious looking on the rifle.

flitter296 said:

Good luck with your search for a flashlight that meets your needs, may you stay safe while hunting. And, Welcome to CPF!

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Thanks! I appreciate the welcome and the feedback.

LowFlux said:

Since you mention that you are attaching the light to shotgun, I want to mention that I see the Olight M22 only has a spring on the head and the tail cap has a solid rod. When you shoot the shotgun, the battery will rattle around and so having that rod at the base could damage your batteries after a few rounds. For something with a heavier recoil you will want springs on both the head and the tail.

Click to expand...

I was just doing some additional reading, and now I'm wondering: Is it possible that the rod is spring loaded? I don't see anything to indicate one way or the other in the review. However, in the review for the Eagletac G25C2-II (which also has what appears to be a rod), it says "One minor point is the gold-colored contact cover for the spring in the tailcap". If I'm reading that right, it would imply that the gold rod in the tail cap is actually spring loaded, at least for the G25C2-II.

Found the answer to my own question. According to this review, it is spring loaded.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?363006-ReviewTheLight-Olight-M22-Warrior

If you are trying to get a feel for what a particular lux level looks like, I have some experience with that issue.

What it all boils down to when shooting is contrast.

When calibrating night shooting ranges, etc, we find that a white (or high contrast) target is fairly easy to aim at with low light, but a low contrast target requires MUCH more light to be able to effectively aim.

At ~ 100 meters, with an illuminated reticule, on a white target, shots can typically be made with as little as 0.3 - 1.0 lux depending on your night vision.

With a low contrast target (The target and the back ground are close in appearance), you may nee closer to 5 -15 lux to take the same shot.

TEEJ said:

If you are trying to get a feel for what a particular lux level looks like, I have some experience with that issue.

What it all boils down to when shooting is contrast.

When calibrating night shooting ranges, etc, we find that a white (or high contrast) target is fairly easy to aim at with low light, but a low contrast target requires MUCH more light to be able to effectively aim.

At ~ 100 meters, with an illuminated reticule, on a white target, shots can typically be made with as little as 0.3 - 1.0 lux depending on your night vision.

With a low contrast target (The target and the back ground are close in appearance), you may nee closer to 5 -15 lux to take the same shot.

Click to expand...

Very helpful info, thanks. In this case, a hog is going to be fairly low contrast.