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Thread: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Lights

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    Default Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Lights

    I just drew a second “Pair of 5’s” but I don’t have Four-of-a-Kind. Having found the second Starburst using a Google search I hadn’t used before, I decided to try a few more new searches and I hit paydirt and they were only 350 miles away round-trip. I was delighted to go pick up more Optical Radiation Corporation Short Arc lights to provide big brothers for the Locators. These are titled “X-500-14 Gunfire Simulators”. They are Very Large 500 Watt Short Arcs with large 14” reflectors. They are larger than the 1600 Watt NightSun. I noticed right away these don’t have the normal 2 or 3-leg front lamp support spider due to a unique center hub mounting arrangement. There is a fast reacting shutter that covers the lamp similar to the VSS-3A but it’s not I.R. and it covers and uncovers very quickly. I’m guessing a very quick burst of light via a quick uncovering and recovering of the lamp is supposed to simulate a cannon shot from the helicopter or tank that these, I’m told, were used on.

    On the back of the light is a local control panel with Master switch, Ignition switch & a switch for Light ON (which is the shield) Standby (lamp covered) and Remote Trigger. This leads me to think that all the components needed to ignite and run the light are located inside the shell of the light. To verify, I pulled the back cover off of one light to look at the internals. It looks to me as though it is a complete system. All the ignition components are there along with the 2nd Orange looking box which is tagged as a “Power Supply”. The ballast resistor, main and ignition solenoids, main power diode, small transformer and main Capacitor are there as well. These are pretty much all the main components that are present in two different components on both my 1600 and 500 Watt NightSuns. I traced the input power wires from the main power input connector and they pretty much mirror the path that I see in my NightSun, start to finish. This further gives me confidence that everything needed to run these is contained in the case. Now for the big unknown. You can see that there are quite a few small signal input pins in the main power connector. Obviously, some type of power receiving and signal distribution box was located ahead of the light. So will it work if I simply provide 28 Volt power to the 2 main power pins? Or is it similar to the VSS-3A and its’ need for the Control Box? It would seem strange to me to put these switches to operate the light on the back panel if it was not meant to be autonomously operated from that position. The VSS-3A has no such operation panel on the light body. And of course one of the other small connectors on the top box had to be connected to a remote control box that was used by the pilot/gunner.

    After cleaning all the internals and wiring so they all look nice and shiny, I removed the lamp to ensure it looked operational and so I could clean it. These lights have been sitting for about 20 years. They are circa early 80’s and have repair tags dated 1994. The seller said there were 6 originally purchased by his boss at a military surplus event. The seller got 3 and with a friend, took one apart and pretty much destroyed it. Nothing is left and he has no idea what happened to the other 3 or if control boxes were purchased at the same time and lost.

    I cleaned the reflector and front window and then re-assembled everything. I then provided Power to the main pins. The result: It does not start, there are no ignition strikes and the fan does not run. It’s the same for both lights. In my first inspection, I did not see a thermal sensor for the fan so I am assuming in should come on with the Master Switch.

    What does happen: (the same for both lights)

    The circuit breaker lever on the top box provides power to the Master switch on the back panel. The Master switch energizes the main power solenoid. The ignition switch activates the ignition solenoid. The Lamp-On & Stand By switch covers and uncovers the lamp as it should. (Nothing happens in the Remote trigger position) The push-to-test button lights the green pilot light when pushed in.

    Needless to say, there is zero information available on these anywhere online that I could find. There is no manual, no schematic, no nothing.

    If I can get one or both going, I’ll have at least one reflector stripped and re-plated. The shiny looking one is at best, very Orange-peeled. The second one was actually overheated I believe. It looks as those the plating was burned off and the substrate has some blue-ing visible. Their shape and surface are fine. The reflectors are almost identical to those in the VSS-3A so I am thinking these are probably 1-degree or less beam profiles. The arc gap is very small, too. I’ll bet these throw very well. I’m sure the designers wanted as tight a beam as possible to simulate the small size of a projectile.

    Anyone know anything about these?







































    The lamp tucked into its' home




    Never clean a reflector - unless it's already in bad condition and you've got noting to lose.




























    Reflector all cleaned up but still not in good shape







    I think the use of a chemical destroyed the other lights' reflector. The surface is still very smooth and glassy to the touch and there is no evidence of the light overheating to cause the discoloration.




    Last edited by BVH; 04-20-2014 at 10:35 AM.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Pics of the shutter and hub system. The system uses a mechanical link from a motor mounted on the back to move the shield.


    Shield Closed




    Shield Open




    My hopes of lighting these off as they are designed to be run are pretty much gone. 8 of the 12 small input connector pins on the main connector are utilized and at least one goes to an 8 or 10 terminal relay that ultimately powers the fan so whatever controller was used, as a minimum, it enabled the fan and probably provided the trigger circuit power. So I'd say it's definitely required. I had thought that maybe it was a redundant controller to the panel on the back. But there is no electrical link to the fan from the back panel so there's no way to keep the lamp cool so it's not designed to run from there. If I had a full schematic, I think it would be possible to make wiring mods to eliminate the need for it. Probably the only way I will operate them is to install two high Voltage capable connectors to the light, run short high Voltage cables directly to the lamp connectors and then run the lamp directly from my 100-600 Watt universal arc lamp supply with a separate 28 Volt supply to the cooling fan. All of that is fairly easy to do and it's the same way I will run the M134 mini gun light when I get the lamp next week. However, I don't know if it will be worth having one reflector re-coated if I can't run them normally. I'm guessing a re-coat of a 14" reflector would be over $1,000 using Rhodium. It's still fun having them as a part of my Short Arc historical collection but it's a bit disappointing not having the controller.

    I found the lamp broken in the second light. I thought I might be able to adapt a 500 Starburst lamp and use it but the arc gap is about .070" for the ORC and about .105 for the Starburst. Given the extremely large reflector for a 500 Watt light, the very small arc gap makes sense to help produce my estimated 1 degree or less beam profile. Using the Starburst lamp would reduce tight beam performance I think. Get-Lit, can you provide your thoughts on the large reflector and small arc gap?
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Running, these would be truly throw monsters! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually focused down to a point at x distance to simulate maximum range of projectile.
    Figuring out the pinout on the connector/relay shouldn't be all that difficult, especially if they all lead to one relay set, even if you had to manually trigger the contacts in the relay to determine which does what and then either hardwiring them permanently or with a custom controller.
    It really would be a shame to power from a separate supply, those look like killer lights!
    Hopefully someone here can lend some insight and lead to a schematic or control panel!
    Great find Bob! Hope you get em running! Lemme know if I can help.
    I Got tired of looking for the light at the end of the tunnel so i lit that bitch up myself! Convoy s2 365nm, Maxa-Beam Gen II, 55w hid/100w incan Vector Twin, Amondotech n30, vss-3A, Reylight Ti Lan v3, Helius Sigma 9, astrolux s41 219, Shadow JM35, BLF GT,

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    More negative news. The fan is a 200 VAC, 3 Phase Rotron Vaneaxial that runs at 22,000 RPM and outputs 153 CFM. It needs an inverter to convert from 28VDC to the 200VAC, 3PH. As best I can look up, the inverter box is about 1" x 3" x 1" and there might be a separate Phase converter box/device also. These are definitely not in the light case. The wiring diagrams indicate that all 3 fan hookup wires go back to the inverter. But at least one hookup wire goes directly to one of the terminals on 1 of the cylindrical relays that you see on the integrated breaker panel on the outside of the light. I will trace the other two and see where they go. I'd guess the inverter and Phase converter were in the other mysterious controller.








    WOW! Someone's trying to get $300 for one of these on Ebay. Doesn't look like any of them are actually selling though.

    EDIT Add. The hour meter is 115 VAC and there are at least 2 relays that can run on AC or DC and these are in the fan and hour meter circuits so I speculate they are running on AC. So that pretty much settles it that these babies are not going to run on their native electronics unless by some miracle, I find the controllers for them. There is a repair tag on both of them with a company name in Alabama that still exists. I will give them a call to see if they have any info from 1994 - slim chance but worth a try.

    So Plan B may be the only plan. I'd still like to see the beam but even if the first lamp is still good, to see the true performance, I'll need a reflector re-coat. That could get very costly and I'm not sure I want to do it if it's not going to run as originally designed.
    Last edited by BVH; 08-28-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Well these beauties are just too nice to put into storage just yet. I just removed both reflectors and am sending them to Phoenix Electroforms to have the hubs removed and installed on new Rhodium coated identical replacement reflectors. The cost is very reasonable at about $650 to $700 including shipping for both units. I'm also having A.R.C. make a new lamp to replace the broken one. At least both lights will be in good-as-new shape in the "business end" when I figure out how to power them.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Travis

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Hi FroggyTaco. No, those are just a bit different than mine plus mine look almost brand new and I suspect they work fine - if they just had 3 Phase, 200 Volt AC power from the original controller!
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    I wonder is Matt has something 3 phase that would let us test the fans
    Travis

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    It's not just 3 Phase but 3 Phase with a much higher 400 hz frequency instead of the normal 60 hz. I've seen 400 hz systems used in other military hardware. It seems to be popular with their equipment.

    Just a point of interest, I'm also guessing since the fan mfg website says these are able to be rpm controlled by use of varying frequency, that this intelligence probably existed in the original controller. But that's just a guess. I have not ID'd any thermal sensors in the case.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Not going the enhanced Rhodium route. I inquired and it would be about 5 grand to get two done. Nice, new shiny Rhodium will be just fine, thank you very much.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Not going the enhanced Rhodium route. I inquired and it would be about 5 grand to get two done. Nice, new shiny Rhodium will be just fine, thank you very much.
    $5k????
    I Got tired of looking for the light at the end of the tunnel so i lit that bitch up myself! Convoy s2 365nm, Maxa-Beam Gen II, 55w hid/100w incan Vector Twin, Amondotech n30, vss-3A, Reylight Ti Lan v3, Helius Sigma 9, astrolux s41 219, Shadow JM35, BLF GT,

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Well I'm all jazzed up again. I really want these to run on their own components as opposed to running them off an outboard arc lamp power supply and running the high voltage cables in. In any case, I could not run them if I didn't figure out how to make the 400 Hz, 3 Phase, AC fan work. So I've found a micro VFD/inverter that provides the 3 Phase AC power @ 400 hz for under $200 shipped. It's on the way. Last night I spent about 3 hours tracing out the 3 legs of AC power that go to the fan all the way back to the main, 14-pin input connector. The lines come from individual pins in the main power connector, then go through individual circuit breakers, then a 14 terminal relay and then finally to the fan. It will be easy to power the light and fan through one big cable that connects to the OEM connector so it will look nice and clean.

    During the tracing, I discovered and figured out that the lamp ignition circuit pulls its' power from one leg of the 3-Phase AC power. No wonder I couldn't light them up! No AC power, no ignition. So I am expecting that once the inverter is hooked into the system, the fan will run, the lamp will ignite and run from the OEM internal components. I dropped the old lamps and my home made bases off at the lamp mfg last Friday and both old reflectors were received at Phoenix last Friday. I'm hoping to have new lamps and reflectors back in a month or so.
    Last edited by BVH; 08-28-2019 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    For you turbine aficionados, here's my third startup of the Rotron 22,000 Vaneaxial fan after having received my little 3-Phase, 400 hz drive. Air flow is opposite most of my lights. Air is pulled in at the front slots in the bezel, gets drawn to the center hub and then through the lamp chamber, out through the fan and blown across the ballast resistor then out the rear case slots. I finished the universal yolk adapters to allow mounting on my NightSun stand after I make the yolk.

    Turn your volume up. It was much louder in-person.




    I'm fairly sure these babies are going to fire up and run on their own internal components once I get the lamps and reflectors back. I feel it in my bones.
    Last edited by BVH; 08-28-2019 at 03:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    I was ˝ expecting it to start hovering off the table! Glad it's working according to plan!
    I Got tired of looking for the light at the end of the tunnel so i lit that bitch up myself! Convoy s2 365nm, Maxa-Beam Gen II, 55w hid/100w incan Vector Twin, Amondotech n30, vss-3A, Reylight Ti Lan v3, Helius Sigma 9, astrolux s41 219, Shadow JM35, BLF GT,

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    I show my wife your threads so I look more sane in comparison.




    Keep up the good work!


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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Teej, you're a smart and resourceful man! Use me!

    When testing out the 2nd lights' fan, I discovered a discrepancy between the two lights.

    But...The fans are mounted opposite each other meaning one lights' fan draws air from the back of the light over the ballast resistor (which give off mild heat) then pushes it over the Anode end of the lamp first then on to the Cathode and finally out the front of the light. The fan in the other light is mounted so that air is drawn in the front of the light, then sent over the Cathode first, then the Anode, then drawn out over the ballast resistor and then out the back of the light. Both fans are turning the correct direction based on the arrows cast into their frames. It's just that someone has physically mounted them opposite. They are made so that they can be mounted either direction.

    I am speculating that fresh air should be drawn in the back, over the ballast resistor (only mild heat generated), then on to the Anode (Hottest end of the lamp), then over the arc chamber and Cathode and then out the front. The Anode is the most critical piece of the lamp needing cooling. It would not make sense to send air that has just been over the Cathode and hot arc chamber over the Anode and then all that very hot air gets send over the ballast resistor. I believe all my large short arcs send air over the Anode first. But without a manual for these lights, I'll be operating on an educated guess.

    Added: Now that I think about it, the lamp with the broken/loose Anode base came out of the light that I suspect is reverse-flowed. This is also the light that had the reflector that had no Rhodium left on it and was severely discolored - looked like heat damage but it was still very smooth and non-distorted from what I could see. And the fan in the suspect light is brand new or at least much newer than the other lights' fan. Too many factors to ignore.

    Lastly, there is no baffling in the front bezel to prevent water from being drawn in and somewhat easily getting to the lamp, especially in forward flight. Whereas in the back housing, there is significant baffling to prevent this. I'm fairly certain air should be drawn in from the back and sent over the Anode first.
    Last edited by BVH; 08-28-2019 at 03:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    New reflectors with old spinnings are on their way back to me today. Now I just need the lamps!



    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Any updates?

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    No, still waiting on the construction of the custom lamps.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    your threads are always so fascinating. when do you think this thing was made originally?
    aka Edgar Allan Bro, Brosama Bin Liftin, Walter Crunkite, Bro Namath, Teddy Brosevelt, and the Tomahawk Crunkmissile.
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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    I think ORC disappeared in the late 80's or early 90's so somewhere in that era.

    It's been "dry" for a while now. I hope something "new" and exciting shows itself to me soon. I keep looking and hoping to find the ORC 2000 Watt light that's still used on those specially outfitted Hercules C-130 Gunships.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Default Re: Another "Pair of 5's" - ORC 500 Watt 14" Reflector Gunfire Simulator Short Arc Li

    Long time thread revival. It looks like I will get two new lamps for these gems in the near future. In the mean time, I am proactively replacing some "fail over time" parts. I asked for some electronics experts help in this thread.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-question-Help
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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