Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4?

The LS4 looks to be the ultimate EDC, I was just wondering if the Pila 3.7V Lithium Ion rechargable batteries would work in the LS4. Would the LS4 converter direct drive the LS with 3.7V input or will it not work at all?

The LS4 with the Pilas sure would be a great flashlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

They are suppose to work in the LS4, as well as the 2x123 configuration.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

oops

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

The LS4 is a 5 watt light so direct drive would need 7.2 volts. Anyway, the LS4 voltage boost circuit works fine with a Pila. Lots of CPF'ers are using them that way and one of the newest CPF dealers is selling Pila batteries and chargers to the delight of that crowd.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

The LS4 is a 1 watt light. The LS5 will be higher wattage. I thought Peter had said the top voltage for the LS4 would be 3.2V, but I could be wrong.

Edit: Oops, looks like the LS4 will take up to 6 volts and send up to 5 watts to the light, but it is still a 1 W LED. So the Pila should work fine voltage wise.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

DOH!!!! Sorry, guys, I mis-read the message and didn't notice that this was the Arc forum!!! I read it as L4 because I'd just been reading a bunch of other messages about the L4. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

Whoo wee!

The LS4 and LS5 both can be powered by up to about 6.5 volts. So, yes the Pilas will work fine in either light.

Peter

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

Thanks Peter,
I had better start saving a LOT of pennies to get the LS4 and the Pilas. Hmmmm, when does the LS5 show up?

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

What does the Pila look like. What is the form factor, size, etc. Could someone post a picture or link for those of us who don't know? If its anywhere as compact as the 123, does Peter plan to make a rechargeable version of the LS4?

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

There are several Pilas, none as small as a 123. There's one that's 1.5x a 123, so you can fit two of them in a 3x123 light, and there's one that's twice a 123, so you can fit one in a 2x123 light. Since with regards to the LS4 battery tails Peter controls the horizontal and the vertical, maybe there can be a 1.5x123 battery tail just to hold the Pila 150 cell. Or alternatively Peter could offer his own li ion system instead of handing off that part of the business to some other company. For Pila stuff see www.jsburlys.com (CPF dealer).

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

So Peter, I take it you're going to offer Li-Ion power packs soon after release? I'm hoping to see a pack that can hold 18650 (or even 17670) size cells since these are relatively easy to obtain. These will certainly obsolete a lot of lights in my collection (I won't name which ones but they're not made by Arc /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

CM

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

[ QUOTE ]
billson said:
What does the Pila look like. What is the form factor, size, etc. Could someone post a picture or link for those of us who don't know? If its anywhere as compact as the 123, does Peter plan to make a rechargeable version of the LS4?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is what the Pila 168S looks like, it is the same size as two 123 cells and is rated 3.7v 1400mAh:



Since Peter is going to make a 2x123 battery tube for the LS4 all you have to do is use the Pila 168S in the LS4 w/2x123 battery holder and you have a rechargeable LS4.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

I think it will be a lot better of Peter offers his own line of chargers. It will be great if the LS4/LS5 has its own charge controller allowing using a plain 18650 or 18500, especially if the rechargeable tail has charge contacts so you can recharge the battery while it's still inside the light.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

[ QUOTE ]
paulr said:
I think it will be a lot better of Peter offers his own line of chargers. It will be great if the LS4/LS5 has its own charge controller allowing using a plain 18650 or 18500, especially if the rechargeable tail has charge contacts so you can recharge the battery while it's still inside the light.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be nice, but if this means more R&D costs for Peter to build a special charger and overdischarge protective circuit for the bare cells, special battery packs and a charging cradle, resulting in higher prices to us then I would prefer to stick with Pila's.

Pila's drop right in and I can carry a spare with me. I can also use them in various lights, increasing the overall value. So instead of paying something like $250 for a LS4 with built-in Li-Ion cells & charging cradle. I would rather spend $105 on 2 Pila 168S's and charger, and use them in my Surefire L4, L5, $180 Arc LS4, LS5 and other lights.

I wouldn't mind a battery pack that would hold the Pila 150A or 150S though. It would be shorter than the 168S and the 150"A" would give good runtime, just be a bit fatter. But the 150S will run only ~70% as long as a 168S. (1000mAh -vs- 1400mAh)

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

Thing about it is, look what those fancy chargers actually are. Voltage and temperature sensors, and a microprocessor to monitor the sensors and control the charging. That stuff is already built into the LS4! All that's needed is some charging firmware, which is (depending on the processor in use) already available from the processor manufacturer (charge monitoring is a standard application of small micros), plus one more transistor to turn the charge current on and off, plus charge contacts on the light. The charge cradle would just be a simple DC supply like the Pila charger. Basically a cradle/connector powered by a 12 volt wall wart that came out of a catalog, or by a 12 volt automotive cigarette lighter plug.

Yes, it's not quite as easy as I've made it sound, but it can work out very nicely, and can use a raw li ion cell instead of one with electronics inside like the Pila cells apparently have.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

I'm with Sean. From what I've read here on CPF about Li-Ion technology, it's tricky and dangerous if you don't get it right. Why struggle and take the risk to reinvent it. It's wiser for Peter to let others, like Pila, do it. I'd rather see the L5 come out on time instead.

Besides, like Sean, I already have the Pilas and want to be able to use them in more than one light.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

My thought would be something a little bit smaller than the 168s. If a pila battery were used, I think it should be the smaller 150s or 150a. If a bare cell were used, I think it should still be something smaller the the size of two 123's

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

MPorter, I think it's pretty clear from the announcement of the LS4 that Arc is aiming for technological leadership in flashlights, and one doesn't get that leadership by being afraid and hesitant. Charging a li ion battery isn't rocket science. There is nothing to invent or re-invent. It's off the shelf technology, built into just about every cellular phone, PDA, iPod, camcorder, laptop computer, etc. currently in production. You just read the spec sheet for the battery and do what it says for charging. Yes, the LS4 is too probably close to release for li ion charging to be added, and IMO it's not that worthwhile for a 1 watt light anyway. But the LS5 is further off and could use it more since it's a 5 watt light; and if the LS5 is also too far along, one presumes there will be an LS6 someday.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

I'm all for advanced technology. Li-Ion, micro fuel cell, whatever. But I don't want to tie up my Arc as a charger. I want it always in my pocket. It's more convenient for my usage to charge batteries in an outboard charger.

Re: Will Pila 3.7V Li-Ion rechargables work in LS4

I've been getting bare li-ion's from various sources and one thing that really stands is the 18650 form factor is the easiest and cheapest size to get. The next size is 18500 which is in many camcorders. These are the same length as 2x123 and 1.5x123 respectively. In building a light around a power pack, may I suggest that Peter keep these in mind as Pila will probably ride the wave and continue to offer these as well and possibly drop the price as more and more people start using these.