Why doesn't the SC52 have any real competition?

Okay, so alot of people say that the SC52 doesn't really put out 280 lumens on NiMh - 220-240 lumens is more like it. And I tend to agree. But even 220 lumens is WELL ahead of all the other 1xAA lights that struggle to do much better than 150 lumens (and REQUIRE a 14500 to actually equal or better an SC52). Given that people LOVE the SC52 and that the lights seem to be selling like hotcakes, why hasn't any other manufacturer followed suit and built a bright 1xAA light that is even equal to the SC52? You would think the market would be pretty good for such a light. But they're just not out there. Or if they are, they're certainly not well known.

I honestly don't see much visual difference between the SC52 and my Eagletac D25A Clicky Ti XM-L on turbo. Sure the zebralight is probably slightly brighter on max, but it's not enough to be noticable.
In my opinion, where zebralight really shines is their efficiency, the great UI with the ability to turn on in any mode (L, M, H + strobe) from off with a single button and the size of the lights compared to the batteries it takes.

However, they could learn a thing or two about pocket clips, being more selective with their LEDs and having consistent build quality and other external properties. The build quality seems to have gone down the drain since they moved production to the US. No clue why though, you'd hope to expect the opposite...
The tint lottery is driving many people to another brand, and while that might just be a very tiny portion of their customers, that's still the people who would be consistently pre ordering and buying all new versions.

While on paper the zebralights may consistently be the best (and don't get me wrong, I own some and recommend them constantly), in thruth they actually do have a lot of competition and afaik, they're not even close to being market leader in any segment.

I am not an expert on this topic, but as I have some knowledge, I have seen any major difference Eagletac D25A Clicky Ti XM-L on turbo and SC52. Although, I am not saying that there is sue short no difference. zebralight is probably slightly brighter on max.

Someone here once said that producing high output isn't the problem - it's producing it for a reasonable amount of time that is.

The Armytek Partner A1's XPG beats the SC52 on output, but at the cost of even shorter runtime. Armytek's XML version trades a few upfront lumens to the SC52 for flatter regulation that yields both more back-end lumens and runtime at max than the SC52 (ie, output/runtime graphs for the two lights cross in the middle) and I know many other lights will do the same.

The thing with increasing lumens is that linear gains in perceived brightness requires an exponential consumption of power, so for example, if you want twice the perceived brightness from a given light you'll only get about a quarter the runtime... is that trade-off worth it? And who knows, perhaps the heat and stress of overdriving such small lights will reduce the light's longevity and reliability - ZL does offer the shortest warranty in the industry after all.

All that said, I think the reason it makes sense to do a super-bright, short-runtime mode on a light like the ZL is that there are so many programable mode options (what about 11?). If the user wants more Max runtime, then they can just program a slightly lower mode in. IMHO, it really doesn't make as much sense to do on a 2 or 3 mode light, other than for marketing.

@reppans: I think that's one of the points where zebralight is absolutely the best in the market at the moment. They offer enough brightness vs runtime modes to make the choice yourself;
Do I use my light in short 20 second bursts?
Go with the absolute maximum the battery + led can provide.
Do I was a sustained brightness of 100 lumens for the longest possible time?
Make the most efficient circuit and allow the user to make the choice (program it in).

This is one of my favorite aspects of the zebralight. In simpler lights (with just 3 modes) you have to let the manufacturer make the choice for you between 200 lumen for 60 minutes or 125 lumens for 90 minutes (just an example).

but zebralight goes to eleven.

reppans said:

Someone here once said that producing high output isn't the problem - it's producing it for a reasonable amount of time that is.

The Armytek Partner A1's XPG beats the SC52 on output, but at the cost of even shorter runtime. Armytek's XML version trades a few upfront lumens to the SC52 for flatter regulation that yields both more back-end lumens and runtime at max than the SC52 (ie, output/runtime graphs for the two lights cross in the middle) and I know many other lights will do the same.

The thing with increasing lumens is that linear gains in perceived brightness requires an exponential consumption of power, so for example, if you want twice the perceived brightness from a given light you'll only get about a quarter the runtime... is that trade-off worth it? And who knows, perhaps the heat and stress of overdriving such small lights will reduce the light's longevity and reliability - ZL does offer the shortest warranty in the industry after all.

All that said, I think the reason it makes sense to do a super-bright, short-runtime mode on a light like the ZL is that there are so many programable mode options (what about 11?). If the user wants more Max runtime, then they can just program a slightly lower mode in. IMHO, it really doesn't make as much sense to do on a 2 or 3 mode light, other than for marketing.

Click to expand...

TweakMDS said:

I honestly don't see much visual difference between the SC52 and my Eagletac D25A Clicky Ti XM-L on turbo. Sure the zebralight is probably slightly brighter on max, but it's not enough to be noticable.
In my opinion, where zebralight really shines is their efficiency, the great UI with the ability to turn on in any mode (L, M, H + strobe) from off with a single button and the size of the lights compared to the batteries it takes.

However, they could learn a thing or two about pocket clips, being more selective with their LEDs and having consistent build quality and other external properties. The build quality seems to have gone down the drain since they moved production to the US. No clue why though, you'd hope to expect the opposite...
The tint lottery is driving many people to another brand, and while that might just be a very tiny portion of their customers, that's still the people who would be consistently pre ordering and buying all new versions.

While on paper the zebralights may consistently be the best (and don't get me wrong, I own some and recommend them constantly), in thruth they actually do have a lot of competition and afaik, they're not even close to being market leader in any segment.

Click to expand...

Zebralight's are now made in the USA???

I think they are, or at least part of them, or maybe just some assembly. Whichever it was, the quality and feeling of the switches changed, the quality anodizing got way, way worse and the anodizing color has become extremely unpredictable.

the box of my new sc52w L2 says made in china

the armytek PDF lists 1xAA lights with 550 lumens or so. Smart, Prime, Partner V2 and their Pro versions. vaporware some say.

I think I misread or have been misinformed about moving anything to the USA. Eitherway, something changed in the production process and it was for the worse

By the way, I doubt some manufacturer using 1xAA eneloop, a cree XM-L2 or XP-G2 led and none-magic drivers can go all that far beyond what Zebralight is pushing now. There's just not that much wiggleroom in the driver efficiency.
You might gain a few percent improvement if you have-pick every component and get the best of the best LED, but other than that, there's no inventing the impossible. The best bet is an entirely new led, but I doubt any XP-G led on a single eneloop will ever out-perform an SC52.

TweakMDS said:

I think I misread or have been misinformed about moving anything to the USA.

Click to expand...

FWIW Craig at I.S. told me late last year that he thought ZL would soon be buying reels from CREE out of the U.S. (presumably to get better consistent tints). I think I remember talk some mos ago of ZL, at some point, opening a manuf. facility in Texas(?) as well? Maybe I dreamed that part? :duh2:

The SC52 driver appears to be their strong point. At high brightness, it uses about 2.5 amps from a AA Eneloop to give you somewhere between 200-250 real lumens. In comparison, my 4sevens Quark uses almost the same current from two AA's, and only gives a bit more brightness for a bit longer run-time. The Quark is not getting the same efficiency as the SC52. In theory, the Quark should be more efficient, because the boost circuit uses 2xAA should be more efficient than from 1xAA. But somehow, the SC52 pulls off great efficiency at high current from a 1.2v source.

At medium levels, the two lights are about the same efficiency. At low levels, the Quark easily wins at efficiency. So Zebralight seems to have optimized their driver at maximum brightness.

Oh, BTW, made in China vs. made in U.S. makes no difference. It comes down to how the factories manage quality control.

I love my SC52w L2 in almost every respect, the design, the finish, the build quality, the side click, etc... only except the UI.

I normally use the flashlight in house, and mostly bedside. So I really wish the light to start at low/lowlow with single click. But you know all Zebralight will be high with single click. You need long press for low. But if you were woken up by the crying baby to search for the light and want some help of light, it's not so easy to remember "LONG Press" each time. And the high will be horrible in this situation.

Zebralight lights are programmable by six double-clicks for the sub level lumens. But why not introduce some programming for the single click action?? Similar like HDS.

If this is possible, then I think Zebralight is really unbeatable. If they can introduce high CRI led for AA series, that will be even better.

I am keeping searching AA flashlights having this feature - programmable single click light levels. But it seems that only HDS can do this, but HDS supports only 123 batteries and is way too expensive. I just ordered one Rotary and is waiting for delivery.

Many Chinese brands can remember the last level, kind of solving this problem. But the quality is not so good. And normally only cool white LED, again not good for in house/bedside. And normally a lot of design problems.

MDC AA always start at lowlow, which is 0.3lumens and good for bedside use. And the reflector and the tail switch is of Mcgizmo level. But no revers polarity protection, no 14500 compatibility, no LED options, bad clip design.

Peak Capitan has very good optics, I love the beam from Eiger TIR. But the twisty UI is again not good for EDC operation.

rickyro said:

I am keeping searching AA flashlights having this feature - programmable single click light levels. But it seems that only HDS can do this, but HDS supports only 123 batteries and is way too expensive.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure HDS is a nice light, and it certainly has a rabid fan base. But the price is ridiculous, and no AA support is a non-starter.

MDC AA always start at lowlow, which is 0.3lumens and good for bedside use.

Click to expand...

The AA Quarks are nice for starting in moonlight mode, too. I'm okay with the Zebralight needing a long-press for low. I think if I need a light in a panic, a short-press for high is more intuitive. And, anyone trying to use a Zebralight for the first time is only ever going to do a short-press, and they probably want high.

More programability would be nice (such as being able to program any of the 10 modes as "low" or "high" or "medium"). But that would add complexity. I'd be okay with it, but I presume Zebralight knows how far the typical consumer is willing to go to program a light.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Yes, I'm sure HDS is a nice light, and it certainly has a rabid fan base. But the price is ridiculous, and no AA support is a non-starter.



The AA Quarks are nice for starting in moonlight mode, too. I'm okay with the Zebralight needing a long-press for low. I think if I need a light in a panic, a short-press for high is more intuitive. And, anyone trying to use a Zebralight for the first time is only ever going to do a short-press, and they probably want high.

More programability would be nice (such as being able to program any of the 10 modes as "low" or "high" or "medium"). But that would add complexity. I'd be okay with it, but I presume Zebralight knows how far the typical consumer is willing to go to program a light.

Click to expand...

If programability is too much to implement, then provide two options: EDC and tactical as HDS is doing.

EDC: single click for low, press and hold (and don't start rolling to high for this operation from off) for medium, double click for high (good for panic situation, hehe). triple click for batter check. four click for strobe
Tactical: same as existing one

rickyro said:

EDC: single click for low, press and hold (and don't start rolling to high for this operation from off) for medium, double click for high (good for panic situation, hehe). triple click for batter check. four click for strobe
Tactical: same as existing one

Click to expand...

I would hate to see this. A single AA, EDC light does not need "tactical", of any kind. There are dozens of "tactical" lights out there, Zebralight makes good EDC lights, and should stick with that. I find their interface to be both versatile, and exceptionally easy to use already...the fewer changes they make to it, the better. It already gives you double digit modes, quick access to any of the main modes, and ease of use. If that doesn't work for you, buy something else, rather than trying to convert what is already an excellent interface to your specific needs.

thedoc007 said:

I would hate to see this. A single AA, EDC light does not need "tactical", of any kind. There are dozens of "tactical" lights out there, Zebralight makes good EDC lights, and should stick with that. I find their interface to be both versatile, and exceptionally easy to use already...the fewer changes they make to it, the better. It already gives you double digit modes, quick access to any of the main modes, and ease of use. If that doesn't work for you, buy something else, rather than trying to convert what is already an excellent interface to your specific needs.

Click to expand...

So why your needs are not specific needs? You needs are of God?[emoji1][emoji1]

I wonder if anyone has ever claimed "there are already enough of (the kind of lights thati like)", in the history of cpf?

Besides the talk about moving to US, their materials still say: