Something to think about

First of all, I am not talking about caving. Most everyone knows what natural caves are. What I call urban caves are nothing more than the interiors of manmade structures, whether above or below ground level.

The dangers of fumbling around in total darkness in urban caves is essentially the same as in natural caves.

First Premise: It is not an urban cave until the power goes out, there is no emergency power failure lighting, and no outside light to help out.

Second Premise: This is about getting out of the situation (evacuating), and not exploring (as in caving).

Third Premise: A flashlight or headlamp is required in order to prevent injury or death. (This is why I call this an urban cave.)

The goal: Getting from the point of flashlight required to the point of not required.

Now for the complicating factors........

Cause of outage is unknown, unless obvious like an earthquake, but, not something that you see coming, like a hurricane (which would nullify this scenario).

Duration of outage is unknown.

You only have one light on you when this happens, with no spare battery(ies), and if incan, no spare bulb.

The Batt(s) in your light are partly used.

If you EDC more than one light at the time, they are NOT on you, and may or may not be in the same physical space as you are.

Date, time, and place are unknown, as is the length of time required to acheive the goal.

The light you have on you, is the one you happen to have on you at the time. We all know that our EDC light(s) can and do change. This scenario could be 10+ years into the future, so you cannot state what light you will have on you at the time.

Final rules:

1. You are in a manmade stucture at the time.

2. You are not at home. So your stash of lights is not available to you.

The question: Is your always on you, just in case light going to be adequate under the conditions stated above??

Keep this in mind: The shorter the runtime, the less likely the light will be adequate to acheive the goal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If the building is collapsed around you, a light probably won't help.

If the building is still standing, it shouldn't take you more than a few minutes to get out, so flashlight runtime shouldn't be too much of an issue. If the building is partly collapsed, being able to see faraway obstructions (brighter light) will probably help more than extra runtime.

I'm also not sure how injury or death is likely to result from not having a flashlight, since blind people work in urban buildings every day.

In discussions like this, it seems to me that runtime is almost always overrated (brightness too). The capability of dark-adapted human vision should not be underestimated. Our ancestors used it for millions of years to stalk antelopes by moonlight before flashlights were invented.

If you look at situations where someone needed a light to get out of a building (or subway or whatever) without stumbling too much, a Photon II is probably more than enough for 95% of them. Right now I have a red one on my belt loop, so that would count.

for most scenarios I think almost every light carried with you would do fine, see paulr's post above.
those armageddon-scenarios where it isn't enough are pretty rare and difficult to think of, and IMHO you cannot be prepared for every kind of nightmare when simply going to work or walking around. That would mean you'd have to carry also food, water, a weapon, a radio, adequate clothing and many other things ... forget it.
One light on a person is the best compromise to be able to restore our main sensory input mode (the eyes) to adequate function to be able to quit the situation.
bernhard

If I didn't have my A2 (which would be almost imposible), I do carry a bic lighter. I think everyone should carry a bic whether they smoke or not. To have the ability to start a fire, as well as some light, can save your life. Pretty good resource for the size.

Of course the best resource is always going to be your mind.

Trivia: Torches were originally called flashlights because battery run time was so short that they were used by "flashing" them on , and off. Normally by a "D" ring that flipped up to a metal contact.

my wife and i both have arc aaa--she always has hers, and i almost always have mine.

i was in a similar scenario about 5 years ago.

i was in a meijer store, when a storm rolled in, and the lights went out. we were nowhere near a window (there are only a few, and it was incredibly dark outside, anyway), and it was DARK! frightened me big time!

the lights were only out for about a minute or two, but it was a VERY uncomfortable feeling. i tried walking around a bit by feeling along the shelves, and though i was well aware of my surroundings, navigation was impossible. i even knocked some stuff off the shelves.

i believe that if i had had a single 5mm led light like the arc/photon/infinity/etc, i would have been fine.

Bob

Sounds like Peter better hurry up with that LS4!

GregR

P.S. After the 1989 Loma Preita earthquake here in California there were lots of personal accounts of experiences during the shaking. There was one that stuck in my head the most and prompted me to make sure the women in my family had small lights. A woman recounted that she was shopping in the basement of a large retail store where they have they housewares, dishes, glassware, pots and pans. When the quake hit the floor was rocking so hard she couldn't stand up and all around her all she could hear was a tremendous crash of breaking dishes and glassware the ceiling tiles were falling all around her and all of this in a pitch black basement area. She said she would have given ANYTHING for a tiny flashlight. Everyone got a Maglight solitare after that.

So far, Pedalinbob is the only one who understands the meat of the topic.

Paulr, running this topic down already? I said unless the cause was obvious, like an earthquake (an example of an obvious cause of power outage). Earthquakes would not necessarily cause the building to collapse. Also blind people are used to navigating without eyesight. The NON blind need to see where they are going. Besides an earthquake need not be in YOUR area to cause YOUR area to be without power (power goes out, then you feel mild shaking. Presumptive cause of outage is the quake. This sequence tells you the quake is not in your area.)

Moonlight doesn't count, as your location has no outside light source to help (total darkness).

Think of the variety of furniture and all those hard, sharp corners and edges, open doors, etc. These are things you can run into, trip over, and stairwells you can fall down.

I wasn't talking about a full blown disaster situation, since that brings in additional complications.

Bravo25, you can only say you would have your A2 or Bic, IF it happened in the near term. No telling what you would have on you later on in time. Ever have to use a Bic as your light source??? I have and it is not that easy.

[ QUOTE ]
Bravo25, you can only say you would have your A2 or Bic, IF it happened in the near term. No telling what you would have on you later on in time. Ever have to use a Bic as your light source??? I have and it is not that easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I said it would be a miracle if I didn't have those with me. I do believe in being prepared, and we are responsible for ourselves. I believe I also said the mind is the best resource we have, and I wouldn't be out without it either. You have to have the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome, irregardless of situation. If you can't when dire situations arise you might as well roll over, give up.

ok ... next try /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...
in a non-disaster situation almost any light would make it possible to exit that man-made structure you mentioned. for this cases runtime is overrated since man-made structures do have exits, you just need to find them.
brightness on the other hand is underrated, since you'll most likely not be alone in there and it might be difficult to guide a group of people outside with an Arc AAA, I prefer something more decdent for this job, even is the runtime is shorter. A nice flood beam would be nice, too.

In short: yes, for the scenario you are describing I will be prepared with my EDC 24/7. For armageddon I am not.

now ... Charles ... is it this what you meant to discuss, or am I wrong again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ?
bernhard

I agree with GregR (Double_A): an ARC LS4 would be perfect. If I were trapped in a store (exits blocked, for example, and for whatever reason, exit signs are not lit up), I would use the LS4 at a low light setting, thereby being able to use and have light for a long period of time.
Even if my battery was partially used up, the runtime should be long enough (akin to a super dim moon mode, for example).

Then, say if someone was trapped in the distance somewhere, I could temporarily use a bright or the "burst" mode to see how far I have to go, and to scope out what potential obstacles might be in my way. I'd then switch back to the low mode and slowly make my way there.

Of course, the LS4 isn't here *now*, so I can't think of another light (size-wise and feature-wise) that would work just as well. And, I realize that we aren't supposed to state what light we have on ourself, since Charles points out that the scenario could happen now, or 10 years from now, or whenever /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Here's another thought: most people carry cell phones with them all the time (except at home, where you would have access to your stash of lights). If you have a colour screen on your phone, you could, in a pinch, use the backlight from your screen to provide as an ambient light source. Depending on your phone, you may have anywhere up to a few hours worth of light.


Charles: I am bringing up the idea of a cell phone because in a pinch, it satisfies your three premises (being in the dark, evacuating and needing a source of light to avoid danger). Although it is not a traditional light source, non flashaholics will likely have a phone with them. And, with the proliferation of colour screen phones, it doesn't matter if the event in question occurs now, or in the future--as long as the subject carries a phone with him/her at all times, then the subject would be able to navigate around in the dark, albeit slowly.

One other non-traditional light source would be my Palm PDA. Though to satisfy Charles' scenario, I would have to carry this PDA everywhere (which I don't do at the moment). Because my PDA has a brighter and bigger screen than my phone, I can use it as my light in a pinch. In fact, I've navigated in pitch-black darkness with my PDA before--works surprisingly well. Like the cell phone, a PDA should work in any of the scenarios Charles mentions.

Since this hypothetical situation can occur at anytime, now, or in the future, I'd say that especially in the future, there will likely be more and more(?) non-traditional light sources for people to rely on in an emergency. That is, phones will have brighter and brighter screens, and so on. Or say laptops will become small enough to EDC, but then of course, you'd have to carry a laptop everywhere you go.

For dark-adapted eyes, a cell phone's light should suffice.

Cheers,
eric t

Pedalinbob's adventure sounds like one of the 95% where a coin cell LED is plenty and anything more is unneeded. Also since the power was only out for a minute, there was no need to fumble around in the dark. Just staying put until the lights came back on would have worked. Most power failures in fact are very brief, so I think I'd have waited a few minutes before even trying to grope my way out of the store. That's long enough to get dark adapted enough to use a cellphone screen if no flashlight is available. And anyway, if the lights stay out for more than a few minutes, probably some security people or cops would have shown up with flashlights to get people out.

I also don't see where the danger was in that particular situation even if you're stuck finding your way out completely in the dark. Yes I guess if stuff got knocked off of shelves (either by accident or by other people trying to use the opportunity to shoplift) you could trip over the stuff, but being a bit careful and walking slowly should be enough to prevent that.

So having a flashlight in this situation would save some inconvenience but otherwise isn't THAT big a deal.

Well, I've been in a situation akin to this. I'm certain many people have. It was in a public restroom, when somebody walked in and out while I was in a toilet stall, and turned off the light on the way out - possibly out of habit. I had fumble around in the dark and guess where the switch might be on the wall. Dark adapted eyes still need some amount of light to see (starlight at night is what the evolutionary process adapted too) but a windowless room with the lights turned off has zero photons floating around for the eye retinas to use.

In that situation, any light source with you will do, including a book of matches. I EDC an Arc AAA now (previously used a Mag Solitare) and that would fulfill the basic duty called for in the premise of this thread.

Bernhard, you are on target. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Paulr, it is not that big a deal, unless you end up with a serious concussion or other injury.

The reason I am not asking what make/model of light, is that nobody knows for sure at any point in the future, what their EDC light is going to be. Currently I EDC an Infinity Ultra, which would be more then adequate for most of the possibilities. However, after I get my LS4-Ps, the EDC may change. When something better comes out in the future, it may change again. Knowing flashaholics, who can really say what that always on you EDC light will be?? Besides, you may change city of residence and/or state, job, etc.

The August 14, 2003 blackout was a more recent example of this scenario. When it happened, nobody knew how widespread it was (except power companies and certain gov. officials), or how long it would last.

There are just far too many variables and unknowns to quantify anything, and each situation is going to be unique to the individual, because of this.

Yes, I don't remember any reports of injuries from anyone getting caught in the dark during the Aug 14 blackout. Of course there were lots of traffic delays and stuff like that. However, even in big cities, there aren't that many places to get unsafely caught in the dark. Most places have windows and will get some light. Subways, big department stores, etc. have backup lighting and/or conductors and security guards carrying flashlights.

I think there's an unnecessary element of panic implicit in the the original, that if the lights go out, anyone there will have to escape quickly before the building falls down, or that they'll have to spend hours navigating some Minotaur-like maze instead of just walking to the exit (most large buildings have self-illuminated exit signs), etc. Really, there's generally no hurry, just stay calm, move slowly or stay put, and you won't fall down and get a concussion. For those not stuck without transportation or whatever, the Aug 14 blackout was a very nice break from the usual hustle and bustle of urban settings.

As for what EDC I might have in the future, I have no idea, but if I have one at all, it will probably be at least as bright (though maybe shorter running) than the red Photon II that I have right now, so I'm not too worried. An LS4 or anything like it sounds like total overkill. In fact I see recently that cheap cell phones are starting to have LED flashlights built in. Perhaps after a while, most cell phones will have them, so most normal folks will have an EDC light, not just flashaholics.

By the way, making a room completely dark is harder than it sounds (try it sometime).

As for ONLY having one flashlight - that'll be hard, as I carry 2 in my pockets - hard to get seperated from them that way

My ARC LS did yoman duty during the Aug 14th blackout, along with my ARC AAA - right now, I tend to use my AA more than either! It's more than enough light in the dark

As for making a room totally dark, it's not THAT hard - I've done it 4 times that I can think of, and 2 of those rooms could be opened to "regular" use without much effort. Yes, each of the 4 was tested with a long duration exposure of a sheet of Tri-X film

A few years ago (pre-Flashaholic days)..I was in Healy, Alaska preparing for work (-40 degrees), taking a shower in the wee hours of the morning and the power went out.

I had a white Inova keychain LED light on my keyring on the bathroom counter. Turned it on, completed my shower, got my things together and proceeded down the dark hallway with my little torch!

I certainly felt satisfied that I had that little torch with me - made all the difference in the world! It was a security and safety issue!

Gee, the "big one" comes, the tilt-up I work in (situated over a liquifaction zone) comes untilted, (picture a house of concrete cards /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and I somehow survive without being crushed. Providing the whole mess doesn't catch fire.... I carry 2 lights, totalling a good 4 hours of moon mode after whatever remains of the "bright" mode of my batts says byebye. Gee, If I'm trapped in my orifice, can I get to my spares? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Larry

[ QUOTE ]
Charles Bradshaw said:
...snip... When it happened, nobody knew how widespread it was (except power companies and certain gov. officials), or how long it would last. ...snip...


[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, within 15-20 minutes, I knew it was regional at least, and had reports out to Michigan, so I KNEW we were going to be black for a while. It's amazing what you can find out on an "emergency services net" on Ham Radio. If you train, you know where to tune, and how to get the info

Within 10 minutes of the blackout, I was on the street (came out of the subway - used the ARC LS to guide folks out), had my HT tuned to the only operating local repeater for emergency use (a guy with a base and emeergency power came on as "Net control" - I was 2nd up), and I had my portable scanner running on the NYPD citywide and Midtown freqs.

Then again, I edc WAY too much "stuff". For the real basics, I follow "2 is 1, 1 is none"

ON MY PERSON, I have a knife, 2 flashlight, a leatherman p4, a mini first aid kit/survival kit, a pad and pencil + pen

The GOAL of that kit is to get me to my bag, which has my commo gear, clothing, a larger 1st aid kit, food/water, stove, ropes, etc. Now USUALLY that bag is in the same general area I am. At worst, it's on the same block. Yeah, I can work without it, with what is on my person, but...

The goal from THERE is to make my truck. That adds (beside the obvious "transportation", more commo gear, more food (better food too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) more water, more first aid, more lights, etc.

From there, the goal is "Home", where I can hang out for more than a week

"Ogres are like onions. We have layers" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

uh ... even Armageddon would not be able to harm YOU, man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Right on KC2IXE!

Larry (WJ6I)