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Thread: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

  1. #5281

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Me tries to see and understand all available operations for storing modifications to program number, slot/-s number, modifying program number for slot/-s and starting program and get a handy overview. Hardy to get it on one single manual read session. I am not quite comfortable with elaborations made in manual - rough portion of own work needs to be done to get understanding.
    In general these are actually two independent operations: saving modifications and starting program although at few points there seem to exist shortcuts to conduct these two in one step. Additionally saving modifications has two dimensions: saving to memory, saving to number of slots.

    It feels like manuals chapter "SPV - The controls in SPV are as follows" was complete not until considering also descriptions in "SPV - Save To". I mean former one to be a generic description of possible operations which possibly feature certain level of parameterization (chapter does not dig into parameterization details) - e.g. bullet 3 - while the latter one be presenting parameterization details. For me it is unclear which SPV controls else does the Save To setting apply to (e.g. bullet second from end too?).

  2. #5282

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Have you tried the "CHEAT SHEET" yet?
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?428121

  3. #5283

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Oiyuk Ti View Post
    Me tries to see and understand all available operations for storing modifications to program number, slot/-s number, modifying program number for slot/-s and starting program and get a handy overview.....?).
    I have now played around with changes to the program again and looked when the changed memory will be permanently overwritten and when not.
    (FW: 1.13)

    The changed program is not overwritten if:
    1. The program is left at the end after the changes by pressing the "Stop button" twice. The changes will be lost. - That's logical.
    2. The program is copied to another memory number after the changes with "Save to [new memory number]. The settings are copied to the new memory number. - Also logical

    In all other cases, regardless of whether you just hold the SNB button for a long time to start, or complete these changes with "Save to:" Ready or All Slots, the edited memory is permanently overwritten. - Not necessarily logical.

    I would like the changed memory not to be overwritten if:
    1. Hold down the SNB button (to start the current slot with the changed values).
    2. With "Save to All Slots" wants to use these temporary settings in all inactive slots.

    This would help to avoid having to overwrite a memory completely every time due to small changes.

    Another option would also be e.g. "Save Temp. to Slot", "Save Temp. to All Slots".
    Last edited by sbj; 06-17-2020 at 08:46 AM.

  4. #5284
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hello,
    I have just received my Skyrc MC3000 from Banggood.
    There is one problem. Some strange sound. When fans spinning faster it disappears.
    I have done video of it:
    https://youtu.be/4R-aGrCb_DQ

    Thanks

  5. #5285

    Default Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Hello everyone,

    just spent an hour searching internet but couldn't find a decent explanation of different parameters for the charger... First of all, would be very greatful if someone points in in the proper direction.

    Specificaly trying to understand what is the difference between "Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" in the Storage program ? I see those on iOS app v1.5.2, the firmware v1.15

  6. #5286

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by simply123 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    just spent an hour searching internet but couldn't find a decent explanation of different parameters for the charger... First of all, would be very greatful if someone points in in the proper direction.

    Specificaly trying to understand what is the difference between "Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" in the Storage program ? I see those on iOS app v1.5.2, the firmware v1.15
    Essentially you can discharge at the nominal value as 500mA.
    When the current fall a bit down to 500mA the charger stop the discharge function.
    This is standard function, but in the battery remain a bit of energy, due poor battery quality or high internal resistance values,.


    Now you can select the discharge value to 500mA and set the Discharge Cut Current at only 50mA for a deep battery discharge.
    Note: the voltage of the battery remain over the Voltage Cut value, this to avoid battery damages, but the discharge current gradually fall down from 500mA to 50mA.

  7. #5287

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by hc900 View Post
    Now you can select the discharge value to 500mA and set the Discharge Cut Current at only 50mA for a deep battery discharge.
    Note: the voltage of the battery remain over the Voltage Cut value, this to avoid battery damages, but the discharge current gradually fall down from 500mA to 50mA.
    Thank you for the reply - I understand your logic here, but not sure if it's correct. I'm talking about "Storage" mode - it does NOT involve deep discharge at all (unless I don't understand even more than think), so when the charger reaches the "Target cut-off voltage" it supposes to stop (dis)charging (whatever it was doing) completely. Or I'm wrong ?

  8. #5288
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    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Setting the mode to storage is somewhat unique compared to other modes like charge, discharge or cycle because the Cut Volt setting is ignored and set to off by default. Target Volt is the important setting for a storage program. Normally Target Volt is the limit for charge and Cut Volt is the limit for discharge.


    For example if your Target Volt is set to 3.80V and the battery you insert has less than 3.80V resting it will charge that battery to 3.80V at whatever current you have C. Current set for. Then when the battery has 3.80V it will reduce the current holding 3.80V until it reaches whatever you have your Termination current set for. The default is zero and I recommend raising that to at least .03 - .05 A or else you could be waiting for hours for the battery to settle down depending on it’s condition.


    If you use that same program for a battery that has more than 3.80V resting it will discharge the battery at whatever you have D. Current set for. Then when the battery reaches 3.80V it will reduce the discharge current holding 3.80V until it reaches whatever you have D. Reduce set for. Also this default is zero and I recommend raising it to .03 - .05A for the same reason. Older tired batteries will just take forever to settle in at exactly 3.80V.


    Frank

  9. #5289

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Frank, thank you for the explanation, but I'm more-less familiar how does Storage work in general. Unfortunately it doesn't explain my original question - what is the purpose (and the difference between)
    "Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" parameters ?

    There is a picture of the "standard" Storage program (without any changes):





  10. #5290

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    I have to admit, I've never used the app and haven't installed it.

    I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app!

    One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
    In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination).

    The best way to clarify is to simply try it out by setting this value to the same level as the charging current and observing whether the charger switches off immediately when the final charge voltage is reached without reducing the charging current before.
    Last edited by sbj; 06-26-2020 at 04:12 AM.

  11. #5291

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app!

    One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
    In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination).
    Even if so, what is the possible purpose of the another parameter ? In my opinion it should be only two "Current" parameters total - "Charge current" and "Termination current", why do they even need the third one ???

  12. #5292

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    You mean the setting "Discharge Cut Current" or "Discharge Reduce" in the normal discharging program?

    In principle when discharging, this is the same as the Termination setting when charging. The MC3000 can discharge up to 2A. If you e.g. Setting 3.0V as the final discharge voltage and discharge with 2A down to this threshold and then switching it off immediately, the open circuit voltage will then recover very clearly in the direction of 3.2 or 3.3V. It would be difficult to hit a certain open circuit voltage straight away. With "Discharge Reduce" set to a low value, this is not a problem.

    Another example of a fast capacity test.
    The capacity specifications of the battery manufacturers are based on a discharge current of 0.2C. This means that the discharging process alone takes about 5 hours. You can shorten this if you e.g. discharge with 1C and only at the end of the discharge with "Discharge Reduce" the discharge current reduced to 0.2C.
    Last edited by sbj; 06-26-2020 at 12:02 PM.

  13. #5293

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    You mean the setting "Discharge Cut Current" or "Discharge Reduce" in the normal discharging program?
    Assuming you are talking to me - no, my question was only about the Storage program and only about those two parameters (Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current)

  14. #5294

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    I explained what I think "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" means here:
    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    ..
    I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app! [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Vonmir\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

    One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
    In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination)....
    It has nothing to do with discharge! This is the value of the final charge current when charging to storage voltage.

  15. #5295

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    I think you still haven't understood how the storage program works?
    The purpose of the storage program is to bring a battery to the programmed storage voltage.

    1st case:
    The actual voltage of the battery is higher than the storage voltage. Then the charger must discharge the battery (discharge current, discharge cutcurrent (= discharge reduce)) involved.
    A discharge program is running.

    2nd case:
    The actual voltage of the battery is lower than the storage voltage. Then the charger must charge the battery (Charge current (A), Disc. Cut-off current (A) (= Termination) involved .
    A charge program is running.

  16. #5296

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    I think you still haven't understood how the storage program works?

    Actually, I have designed and made a couple of chargers with a Storage mode for my own needs, so have some idea...


    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    Disc. Cut-off current (A) (= Termination)
    OK, possibly I see the source of my confusion... What does "Disc." mean here ? I assumed "Discharge" and it threw me off. If it's "Disconnect" (or "Discontinue" etc) everything suddenly makes sense...

  17. #5297

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    In my opinion, just a stupid misnomer.
    They should name this "Termination" exactly as in the MC3000 menu.

    That should be on the suggested list for improvements for the next App version.

    But please try it with the app beforehand, not that I might be wrong with my guess.
    Last edited by sbj; 06-27-2020 at 02:38 AM.

  18. #5298

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Metal stripe got apart recently in my MC3000 sample, later one less than 1 year old. Looks like it was temp sensor strip. Few days before myself transported charger to other household at distance of appx 300 miles. However charger was transported in brand original box with no other 3rd party items in box. I realized the strip is located loosely in on slot on trying to start a charge program yesterday. I was lucky to place it back to its mount after tithing up one of its end - hook formed end. It seems to keep firmly in its mounts now. It looks like manufacturer placed certain amount of thermal grease at the point where some tiny component looks through small opening. Not sure if it is grease to improve thermal conductivity. Me didn't add new grease before placing metal stripe into its mounts, which might be not good.

  19. #5299

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Has the MC3000 been discontinued ?

  20. #5300
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    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Why makes you think it’s discontinued?


    It still shows up on their company web site. I just checked 3 US vendors and they all show stock. I have firsthand experience with all three of these vendors and they all ship next day. There is one very popular European vendor that shows availability in 3 days. Seems to me if you want one you can buy one and probably have it buy the end of the week depending on where you live.


    A few weeks from now or even sooner this info might be stale but today this is what I saw.


    Frank

  21. #5301

    Default Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current

    Quote Originally Posted by fmc1 View Post
    Why makes you think it’s discontinued?


    It still shows up on their company web site. I just checked 3 US vendors and they all show stock. I have firsthand experience with all three of these vendors and they all ship next day. There is one very popular European vendor that shows availability in 3 days. Seems to me if you want one you can buy one and probably have it buy the end of the week depending on where you live.


    A few weeks from now or even sooner this info might be stale but today this is what I saw.


    Frank
    Gearbest and Hobbyking have it as discontinued

  22. #5302

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by nqhzdkdf View Post
    "made up" and "damaged" is not true. The cells are working completely fine. They also charged up with the old and now broken (water got inside) cheap charger without any issues. It was some cheap 10$ charger and that worked perfectly fine.
    I have never ever seen anyones "blown up face" because he charged just his really empty batteries. This is not some tesla hundreds of volts 18650-circuit. This is a 3,7Volt battery.
    Have you ever tried to "blow up" a really (measured capacity 50mAh instead of 2500) worn down 18650 cell? Try it. Its not that easy and its really boring. Its just getting warm and nothing else. Flat cells are much more easy to blow up.

    How can this MC3000 charger now be used to charge up rellay empty 18650 cells? I still cant believe that cells that are empty cant be charged up with this charger.
    The manufacturer told me after i asked him if the warranty should be used to fix the issue that really empty li-ion cells cant be charged and there was no warning anywhere on the MC-3000-package that i should use the wrong chemistry to charge up a bit. After many weeks of trying around i find out a quite working solution.

    Howto charge li-ion cells with SkyRC MC3000 (Firmware Version 1.15) that are below 1.81Volt(this is the voltage that the MC3000 in even advanced mode simply don't allow you to charge the li-ion cells):
    Program to be set up:
    Batt type: NiZn
    Mode: Charge
    Capacity: Off
    C.Current: 0.10A (the safe charging current for li-ion decided by skyrc for batteries below 3V is 0.15. I dropped this value to 0.10A for this mode, because the batteries goes up fast to the TARGET VOLT and should also stay there.
    [unimportant settings ...]
    TARGET VOLT: 1.95V (this is important to set, its the max possible value in the NiZn-mode)
    TERMINATION: Zero (or 0.01A if you want to have a beeping sound and a stop) - this is important to set
    RESTART VOLT: 1.88V (optional but does not hurt if you have setup 0.01A Termination)
    [unimportant settings ...]

    When used it looks like this:
    Take the li-Ion battery and put it into the MC3000. If the voltage is below 1.81V, choose this NiZn-Mode you have set up and for practicality i leave TERMINATION: Zero. Then remember that after few minutes(but it can also be few hours, does not matter with TERMINATION: Zero) you have to switch the modes. The MC3000 is holding the cell-voltage at 1.95V from whatever lower voltage it was before. Then stop the NiZn-Mode and switch immediately to your normal li-ion charging mode and start to charge up from the charged up 1.95V to whatever is been set in your li-ion charging mode.

    I still ask SkyRC to add the option to remove this user-blocking-feature for li-ion below 1.81V. Yes, i can understand that there could be a user that drops a nimh-cell into the charger and forget to switch the mode from li-ion to nimh, the nimh-cell would then get burning hot, could leak and so on. But the charger is in advanced mode. Not in dummy mode. Please leave the advanced users do their own thing and run their own risks. Yes, there should be also a option-switch in the settings to enable/disable this 1.81V-blocking thing so that advanced mode users can decide if they want this blocking to be there or not. But please leave the freedom to the people to decide on their own if they want something blocked or not.

  23. #5303
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I tried updating the firmware on my MC3000 and the process was taking so long, I screwed up and pulled the USB cable during the process. Now the unit is not recognized by my computer and I can't start the update process. So I think I bricked the unit. Where can I send the unit to be repaired? Thanks in advance.

  24. #5304
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by mauiblue View Post
    I tried updating the firmware on my MC3000 and the process was taking so long, I screwed up and pulled the USB cable during the process. Now the unit is not recognized by my computer and I can't start the update process. So I think I bricked the unit. Where can I send the unit to be repaired? Thanks in advance.

    Take a look at post #3464

    Frank

  25. #5305
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by fmc1 View Post
    Take a look at post #3464

    Frank
    Thanks. I'll look into it and hope I'll have better sense in resolving this issue.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  26. #5306
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by fmc1 View Post
    Take a look at post #3464

    Frank

    Thanks, Frank. Got my MC3000 squared away and running. I appreciate your consideration in this matter. All the best.

  27. #5307

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Would it not be a lot easier to just use a (dumb) charger to charge the battery up to (say) 2.00V so that the MC3000 will 'recognize' it?




    Quote Originally Posted by nqhzdkdf View Post
    The manufacturer told me after i asked him if the warranty should be used to fix the issue that really empty li-ion cells cant be charged and there was no warning anywhere on the MC-3000-package that i should use the wrong chemistry to charge up a bit. After many weeks of trying around i find out a quite working solution.

    Howto charge li-ion cells with SkyRC MC3000 (Firmware Version 1.15) that are below 1.81Volt(this is the voltage that the MC3000 in even advanced mode simply don't allow you to charge the li-ion cells):
    Program to be set up:
    Batt type: NiZn
    Mode: Charge
    Capacity: Off
    C.Current: 0.10A (the safe charging current for li-ion decided by skyrc for batteries below 3V is 0.15. I dropped this value to 0.10A for this mode, because the batteries goes up fast to the TARGET VOLT and should also stay there.
    [unimportant settings ...]
    TARGET VOLT: 1.95V (this is important to set, its the max possible value in the NiZn-mode)
    TERMINATION: Zero (or 0.01A if you want to have a beeping sound and a stop) - this is important to set
    RESTART VOLT: 1.88V (optional but does not hurt if you have setup 0.01A Termination)
    [unimportant settings ...]

    When used it looks like this:
    Take the li-Ion battery and put it into the MC3000. If the voltage is below 1.81V, choose this NiZn-Mode you have set up and for practicality i leave TERMINATION: Zero. Then remember that after few minutes(but it can also be few hours, does not matter with TERMINATION: Zero) you have to switch the modes. The MC3000 is holding the cell-voltage at 1.95V from whatever lower voltage it was before. Then stop the NiZn-Mode and switch immediately to your normal li-ion charging mode and start to charge up from the charged up 1.95V to whatever is been set in your li-ion charging mode.

    I still ask SkyRC to add the option to remove this user-blocking-feature for li-ion below 1.81V. Yes, i can understand that there could be a user that drops a nimh-cell into the charger and forget to switch the mode from li-ion to nimh, the nimh-cell would then get burning hot, could leak and so on. But the charger is in advanced mode. Not in dummy mode. Please leave the advanced users do their own thing and run their own risks. Yes, there should be also a option-switch in the settings to enable/disable this 1.81V-blocking thing so that advanced mode users can decide if they want this blocking to be there or not. But please leave the freedom to the people to decide on their own if they want something blocked or not.
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  28. #5308

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    7histology, there have not been payed over 100$ for the advertised in the internet/forum "best" li-ion charger that exists and then not being able to charge really empty cells and have to buy an second one. I wrote that the broken charger was a 10$ one. If a new 10$ charger would been bought, then there wont be a need for a second charger. There was no warning on the mc3000-package like for example "warning, you need to buy an additional charger to charge up really empty cells". Or a warning like "MC3000 - the charger that does not work with some cells advertised on the package as supported".

  29. #5309

    Mad71 Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by nqhzdkdf View Post
    7histology, there have not been payed over 100$ for the advertised in the internet/forum "best" li-ion charger that exists and then not being able to charge really empty cells and have to buy an second one. I wrote that the broken charger was a 10$ one. If a new 10$ charger would been bought, then there wont be a need for a second charger. There was no warning on the mc3000-package like for example "warning, you need to buy an additional charger to charge up really empty cells". Or a warning like "MC3000 - the charger that does not work with some cells advertised on the package as supported".
    Stop writing this nonsense! Do you work for a competitor?

    To those readers out there who are new to LiIon chemistry, charging cells that have been depleted this far is DANGEROUS. Don't do it. And don't be infected with stupid nonsense. Just don't.

  30. #5310
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by skid00skid00 View Post
    Stop writing this nonsense! Do you work for a competitor?

    To those readers out there who are new to LiIon chemistry, charging cells that have been depleted this far is DANGEROUS. Don't do it. And don't be infected with stupid nonsense. Just don't.
    It depends on the cell. For example, the spec sheet for the Samsung 30Q states that they can be recharged from as low as 1.0v. It just has to be done slowly until they reach 3.0v, then charge normally. It's probably safer to do a slow charge from the MC3000, than an unknown charge rate on a cheap charger.

    Personally, I wouldn't recommend charging from that low, but in theory I suppose it's possible.

    Anyway, it's not inherently dangerous, as long as you follow the manufacturer's guidelines. Well, I suppose anything to do with lithium-ion is somewhat dangerous, since they are not intended to be used outside of sealed devices with BMS. From that perspective, the manufacturer says don't use them in flashlights at all, or charge them with any external charger, or even buy them.

    Whatever you do, just be smart about it.

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