Zebralight H502 + 14500 Li-Ion

So, I got a bit of a hankering for a Zebralight headlamp because I keep reading about how great they are, and something like the H502 would cover a couple of things I don't currently have: namely a decent mule and a lightweight head/shirt lamp. But while reading up on exactly which Zebralight would be best for me, I noticed a lot of complaints about the fact that the H502 series doesn't support 14500 Lithium Ion batteries This even seems to have caused some people to opt for the H52Fw instead.

Here's the specs for the H502d L2, which is the one I'm pretty much settled on:

http://www.zebralight.com/H502d-L2-High-CRI-Daylight-AA-Flood-Headlamp_p_142.html

I noticed an odd discrepancy here. It explicitly states that 14500 is not supported, like everyone says. But it also says the maximum voltage is 4.2V. This makes it sound like one of these two statements may be an error.

So I contacted Zebralight, who just replied. Apparently it DOES support 14500. Here's what they said, exactly:


I've replied back pointing out that the Eagletac 14500s that I use are only 1mm longer than an AA Eneloop, so my guess is that it would fit OK. I don't expect them to reply guaranteeing that it will though, so I thought I would check to see if anyone here has one and has tried it, or perhaps was previously too scared to try it because of the "not supported" warning in the specs, which most would interpret to mean "it will burn out the emitter", not "it works but we don't expect it to fit".

H502 is probably too small to handle the heat. IMO, It's pointless to run 14500 on a tiny mule light designed for arm's length tasks. If you have to use 14500, the Spark SG5 supports it, I believe.

davidt1 said:

H502 is probably too small to handle the heat. IMO, It's pointless to run 14500 on a tiny mule light designed for arm's length tasks. If you have to use 14500, the Spark SG5 supports it, I believe.

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Thanks for your opinion, but it wasn't what I asked.

I did ask Zebralight if the light would get excessively hot. They didn't say it would be a problem, so there's no reason to assume it would. It's certainly not a big problem with my Eagletac D25 Ti clickies (they get hot but not problematically so) and they are putting out up to 550 ANSI lumens (nearly double the H502's maximum on primaries) from an even smaller light. I don't see why it would be that much of a problem with the H502, which has a larger heatsink and is made of Aluminium rather than Titanium, so it should dissipate heat a lot better than my D25s. It's also apparently not a problem for the H52 series (which I believe is about the same size) or the Spark you mentioned, which also looks very similar.

As for whether it has any point, you might not find it useful but I would. Especially with the high CRI emitter, which puts out significantly fewer lumens than the CW version. It's a multi-mode light so it's not like it has to be run on high all the time. Most of the time I'd probably run it on medium, but for those times when it's needed, it's better to have the extra brightness on tap than not. A mule with 120 degree flood will suffer from extreme drop-off in intensity with distance, so not having any higher mode limits certain uses, like illuminating the path in front of you when out walking/running, which is in fact something a higher powered yet lightweight mule should be very good at. If you want to talk about really tiny mules, I already have a DQG Spy, which I'm using as a basis for comparison. It would already be fine, were it not for runtime at 200 lumens being limited to about 10 minutes.

They also said that the levels would be the same except H1, so I assume this means they are regulated for constant power. I'm not sure which would give the most runtime at the same brightness: an Eneloop Pro (2.9mWh) or a 14500 (2.7mWh). There's probably not a lot in it. In any case, the 14500 would be considerably lighter, which is most certainly an advantage in this kind of light.

My only concern about the modes is if H1 goes up to say ~400 lumens then the mode spacing might be a bit weird, with nothing between 36 lumens medium and 400 lumens high. I've asked Zebralight if they know the exact brightness levels when running on 14500 but they haven't got back to me on that yet.

This from an Amazon review:

If you are purchasing this for a flashlight with a tight fit AA please don't buy this battery, It is a bit thiker than the AA so it just won't fit. The AA battery diameter measured with a micrometer is 13.90mm the EagleTac Protected Li-ion 14500 is 14.32mm so with a difference of 0.42mm there is some places where it just won't fit.

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http://www.amazon.com/EagleTac-Prot...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

mobi said:

The AA battery diameter measured with a micrometer is 13.90mm the EagleTac Protected Li-ion 14500 is 14.32mm so with a difference of 0.42mm there is some places where it just won't fit.

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Yes, I did wonder about that, but note that Zebralight specifically said length was the problem, not width. Eneloops are also slightly thicker (and longer) than standard AAs. This is very noticeable in my Xbox 360 controller, where they tend to get stuck because of the extra thickness. Compared to an Eneloop Pro, my Eagletac 14500 is < 0.2mm thicker. I checked this with a micrometer (although I didn't think about it until just after I emailed Zebralight back, so I only asked them to confirm the maximum length). Will that make a difference? Maybe. It's a much smaller difference though and getting close to the manufacturing tolerance level. If the tube is bored to fit Eneloops, hopefully there's enough play that 0.2mm won't be too much extra.

Of course there's little point in speculating. Hopefully someone here has both an H502 and a 14500 and can say whether or not it fits in the light (of course don't try to cram it in if it's too tight a fit to get back out again!). It doesn't even matter if it's an Eagletac, as long as certain makes can be ruled in or out - if someone says "I've tried an AW and it fits" then if I get one and my Eagletacs don't fit, I can always buy a couple of AWs. Anyone know the precise dimensions of AW 14500s? I believe those and Eagletacs are the two shortest, and AWs are slightly thinner, but I had a quick look and couldn't find the exact measurements online.

Update from Zebralight: "The only 14500 batteries that may work in the H502 are unprotected and with button top. Some button top protected batteries that are slightly longer than Eneloop (about 50.2mm incluing the button) may still work, but you have to try it to find out."

I measured an Eagletac 14500 with a micrometer (and insulating tape!) at precisely 50.20mm! So there's a pretty good chance it will fit. An AW will probably fit as well, but I don't have any AWs to measure. One possible issue though is that I believe the tolerances on most 14500 cells is +/- 1mm in length, so if by chance mine is the absolute shortest possible, there could be some out there up to 2mm longer, which would not fit. In reality I think the variance is much less than the specified tolerance, which is most likely overstated. I've got more than just that one, but I don't particularly feel like measuring them all, especially with the risk of accidentally shorting one out with the micrometer.

AW 14500's fit my H502c just fine. Only thing I've noticed is running on H1 after a few minutes the light starts to step up and down brightness levels. It will run on the highest setting of H2 continuously just fine.

KDM said:

AW 14500's fit my H502c just fine. Only thing I've noticed is running on H1 after a few minutes the light starts to step up and down brightness levels. It will run on the highest setting of H2 continuously just fine.

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Is H2 the same output as on primaries or is it brighter? The initial response I got from Zebralight suggested that only H1 would be brighter on a 14500, but the wording was not especially clear. If H2 is brighter too then it's probably the better setting anyway, but if not then it seems like there might be a pretty significant gap between the H2 and H1 levels. Do you find the spacing is OK?

The H52 series steps down after 1 minute, which is why it doesn't have a heat problem. If the H502 is only slightly brighter it shouldn't generate enough heat to matter. If it's alot brighter you will want to be careful. I personally don't think the H502 is a very good walking light, it doesn't have enough throw and because of the very wide beam its a bit hard on the person walking next to you. I use my H51 for walking and those tasks that take more lux and the H502 for arms length tasks. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be, so walking with the H502 might be no problem for you.

robert.t said:

Is H2 the same output as on primaries or is it brighter? The initial response I got from Zebralight suggested that only H1 would be brighter on a 14500, but the wording was not especially clear. If H2 is brighter too then it's probably the better setting anyway, but if not then it seems like there might be a pretty significant gap between the H2 and H1 levels. Do you find the spacing is OK?

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IIRC it seems to be brighter with a 14500 li ion (H2), of course you have different sub levels you can program to widen or close that gap. Mode spacing doesn't really seem to affect the other levels as much. With the ability to program the sub levels you should be able to find and set the mode spacing to your liking.

Did you get the H502d? I got an H502w the other day. I am thinking of using 14500 in it so as to standardize my battery setup for both H502w and H52w. The 14500 battery I bought from Zebralight does not work in H502w.

davidt1 said:

Did you get the H502d?

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Not yet, I decided to give it some more thought before buying. I'm currently undecided about whether the "d" or "c" version would be the best colour temperature.

davidt1 said:

The 14500 battery I bought from Zebralight does not work in H502w.

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That's probably why they say they don't support it, although it may work with others. The Zebralight cells appear to be 840mAh, which might explain why they are a bit longer than AW/Eagletacs, which are 750mAh.

Whatever version you choose, I think any ZL light with that stupid #%$^ glowing thingy GITD whatever it's called causes the edge of the beam to appear greenish. While this is not a problem in actual use, it still drives me crazy knowing it's there because Zebralight decided to $#$%^ put the GITD there.

Having said that, the tint of my H502w is very nice with a creamy, slightly rosy white. I prefer this tint over the Nichia 219 in my L10.

davidt1 said:

Whatever version you choose, I think any ZL light with that stupid #%$^ glowing thingy GITD whatever it's called causes the edge of the beam to appear greenish. While this is not a problem in actual use, it still drives me crazy knowing it's there because Zebralight decided to $#$%^ put the GITD there.

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Hmm, that doesn't sound good. I have some other lights with glow rings and it doesn't seem to affect the beam, but after Googling this, it looks like Zebralight have made the entire "reflector" area GITD. Apparently, the GITD they have used is pretty rubbish as well.

I wonder what it would be like if this were coated with a thick layer of Superluminova C3. It'd probably still add a slight green tint, but at least it would give you a free firefly mode when the light is turned off, and make it possible to locate for several hours instead of a few minutes. Superluminova BG-W9 might be better because it glows blue, so instead of adding a green tint, it might just make the beam appear seem slightly cooler. The best thing would be to match the LED tint to the luminous compound so that the overall beam tint is balanced properly, but I'm not sure if it would affect the whole beam evenly.

davidt1 said:

Having said that, the tint of my H502w is very nice with a creamy, slightly rosy white. I prefer this tint over the Nichia 219 in my L10.

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Ah yes, I forgot it was in fact between three, not just two. ZLs model numbering scheme is insanely confusing. Your description makes the 'w' sound pretty good actually. I think the 'd' might be too cool and the 'c' maybe too warm. My ideal is something a touch less warm than the my D25C Nichia 219, with similarly high CRI.

The GITD does not seem to a contributing factor of the green band at the far outer edge of the H502c. The source seems to be the LED. The same LED on other lights without the GITD has the band, according to some who've commented on CPF; while the H502d with the GITD and with a different LED does not.

The GITD charges quickly when the Zebra is switched on momentarily, glows for hours, is useful as a moonlight, and helps in locating the light.

The advantage of using a 14500 over an Eneloop battery might be when travelling light. The 14500 can be charged in a one-slot Xtar. I'm not sure if there are any similar sized Eneloop chargers.

I have three ZL lights with the same neutral XML emitter. The only one that has the green band around the outer edge of the beam is the H502. This has been discussed extensively about a year or so ago. It's the stupid GITD that's causing the green band on my H502w.

As for my H502w, I would it give a 3 out of 5 rating.

Minus 1 point for the GITD and the green band it causes.

Minus another point for super wide 120 degree beam. I had the H501 with an 80 degree beam. IMO, that beam spread was the perfect balance of wide flood, power and discreet use. The difference is huge. There is so much wasted lumens when you spread the beam out too far. Forget about using the H502 with someone else in the room and not bothering them unless they are behind you.

davidt1 said:

I have three ZL lights with the same neutral XML emitter. The only one that has the green band around the outer edge of the beam is the H502. This has been discussed extensively about a year or so ago. It's the stupid GITD that's causing the green band on my H502w.

As for my H502w, I would it give a 3 out of 5 rating.

Minus 1 point for the GITD and the green band it causes.

Minus another point for super wide 120 degree beam.

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Hmm, not sure who's right about the cause of the green band, but clearly it's a real problem in any case.

Did you consider the H52Fw instead of the 502w? It has a 90-degree beam from a diffuse TIR, rather than the mule. Personally it's a mule that I want anyway, so that would give it a +1 if I were rating it.

It sounds like the 502d is better. It uses a Philips LED, which I have no experience with but I find Cree tints are pretty variable, so I can believe that might be the cause.

The H52Fw is the equivalent my H52w with DC-fix diffuser. There is still a hot spot. The H501 is a mule light with an 80 degree beam. There is a difference between a real mule like the H501, H502 and a fake mule like H52Fw. I could be wrong, but you sound like you never had a mule light before. I love a wide pure flood beam too, but a 120 degree beam is too wide and too dim. Think about it for a moment. People use a small mule light for tasks at arm's length. Why then would I need a beam that spread out dimly over a 16ft diameter. I was doing some sewing work yesterday and had to use the highest mode 260lm to have enough light to see what I was doing in front of my face. Meanwhile, the rest of the room is dimly lit up for nothing. Now if the beam was concentrated into a smaller 80 degree beam, it would have been much brighter and still providing plenty pure flood beam.

I do have a mule (DQG Spy), but I didn't realise the H501 was also a mule with a narrower beam. I believe the Spy is also about 120 degrees and agree that a narrower beam (but still mule) would be better as there is a fair bit of wasted light. I had assumed that the beam angle on mules was generally always about the same, as there isn't really any efficient way to shape it without making it not a mule anymore. Presumably a smaller LED die produces a tighter beam?

So Robert, did you get the light and find a 14500 that works fine and still have cell protection?

Thanks!
Mo

robert.t said:

So, I got a bit of a hankering for a Zebralight headlamp because I keep reading about how great they are, and something like the H502 would cover a couple of things I don't currently have: namely a decent mule and a lightweight head/shirt lamp. But while reading up on exactly which Zebralight would be best for me, I noticed a lot of complaints about the fact that the H502 series doesn't support 14500 Lithium Ion batteries This even seems to have caused some people to opt for the H52Fw instead.

Here's the specs for the H502d L2, which is the one I'm pretty much settled on:

http://www.zebralight.com/H502d-L2-High-CRI-Daylight-AA-Flood-Headlamp_p_142.html

I noticed an odd discrepancy here. It explicitly states that 14500 is not supported, like everyone says. But it also says the maximum voltage is 4.2V. This makes it sound like one of these two statements may be an error.

So I contacted Zebralight, who just replied. Apparently it DOES support 14500. Here's what they said, exactly:

"The driver can support the 4.2V voltage, but most of the 14500s are too long to be fit inside. If, however, you do find an 14500 that can be used with the H502d, you'll get all the levels with the H1 being slightly brighter."​

I've replied back pointing out that the Eagletac 14500s that I use are only 1mm longer than an AA Eneloop, so my guess is that it would fit OK. I don't expect them to reply guaranteeing that it will though, so I thought I would check to see if anyone here has one and has tried it, or perhaps was previously too scared to try it because of the "not supported" warning in the specs, which most would interpret to mean "it will burn out the emitter", not "it works but we don't expect it to fit".

Click to expand...