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Thread: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

  1. #1

    Default Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Any idea how the the +130 bulb achieves 450 hours at 13.2v while the +100 is rated at 400 hours at 12v ?

    +130 (45m longer beam & 3700k) - http://download.p4c.philips.com/file...38830_pss_.pdf

    +100 (35m longer beam & 3350k) - http://download.p4c.philips.com/file...2xvs2_pss_.pdf

    How would either of these work in a 5x7 BOBI & a 7" Z-Beam ?

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Pending 3rd-party test results, I'll be sticking with the +100 -- too much blue glass on the +130, which eats into high beam performance.

    The life ratings are probably not accurate numbers.

    (Those "3350K" and "3700K" figures are mostly bogus)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Here is a review of headlight bulbs from Auto Express in the UK. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accesso...t-bulb-reviews

    I really wish they would rate bulb life at 14V. This is much closer to what most cars are operating at.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    I wish AutoExpress would publish bulb tests results like they used to -- they gave the illuminance at the various test points, and a pass/fail on the filament geometry, and generally gave much more info than they do now. My guess is some companies (such as PIAA) were unhappy with how the detailed information revealed their product as junk. Either way, that linked test was done before the +130 Philips bulbs came out.

    Bulb life is tested at 14.0V by US industry practice, but in Europe the standard is 13.2v. I'm not seeing an indication on the +100 data sheet you linked that it was life-rated at 12v, can you point it out?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Its under Specifications, electrical characteristics.

    Schein - what do those blue bands do?

    I see the +100 has one too - I'm surprised that Philips would do this on an otherwise clear, no nonsense bulb.

    I wonder if the "3700k" has anything to do with the "20% whiter" that the +130 claims.

  6. #6
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Schein - what do those blue bands do?
    They bring the total output of the burner to within the maximum specification for their bulb type. The blue is (typically) in the areas of the bulb from where light emitted doesn't contribute to the useful beam part of the beam. The side effect is "style", but I'd prefer a selective yellow tint (even if it has to be extremely deep) so that the "stylish" part isn't obnoxiously blue.
    I see the +100 has one too - I'm surprised that Philips would do this on an otherwise clear, no nonsense bulb.
    It becomes less surprising when you understand the reasoning.

    I wonder if the "3700k" has anything to do with the "20% whiter" that the +130 claims.
    But white light is not whiter than white light. White light is white, no matter how hard the marketers try to tell you otherwise.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Right, "whiter" means less yellow, can't add to white light I reckon.

    The reasoning for 2 blue bands on the +130 vs the single blue band on the +100 ?

    I don't get how the second band may cut down on high beam efficiency, though Im sure theres a valid reason due to focus, reflector etc etc.

  8. #8
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Right, "whiter" means less yellow, can't add to white light I reckon.
    According to Roy G. Biv, white light is still *white* -- it still contains yellow. Because of the tinting (which is subtractive), it's removing quite a bit of the red and orange along with the yellow. It verges on being *less* white than before because of all the light it's removing.

    The reasoning for 2 blue bands on the +130 vs the single blue band on the +100 ?
    Marketing!

    I don't get how the second band may cut down on high beam efficiency, though Im sure theres a valid reason due to focus, reflector etc etc.
    You're getting there. The filament closer to the base is the major filament-- and the band is right around that filament. Notice the minor filament has the bands at the periphery; the center of the filament is unobscured by the band. All the light meant to be directed by the reflector must pass through the filter on the high beam.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Its under Specifications, electrical characteristics.
    No, it isn't. That section is the same on both the +100 and +130 sheets you linked. Remember, "12v 60/55w" is the nominal electrical specification for all standard-wattage H4 bulbs except those that are "6v 60/55w" or "24v 75/70w". The +100 sheet doesn't say (anywhere) the life testing was done at 12v. Nobody life-tests at 12v.

    Virgil - what do those blue bands do?
    A combination of things: they strategically reduce the amount of light emitted at optically irrelevant angles (lines that don't go from the filament to the reflector) so a bulb that would put out more total light than allowed if it had no bands, puts more light onto the reflector but still meets the total light output limit. That's why there's a clear/untinted band around the low beam filament. The blue glass around the high beam filament on bulbs like the Osram Night Breaker or this Philips +130 is there to give the marketers stuff to jabber about ("Color temperature up to 3700K! 20% whiter light! Crisp! Cool! Clean! Minty Fresh!").

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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    ("Color temperature up to 3700K! 20% whiter light! Crisp! Cool! Clean! Minty Fresh!").
    LOL

    I want a head lamp that's 20% more Minty but 30% Fresher!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    So the blue band at the base affects high beam performance, and the blue band at the tip affects low beams?

    I see the voltage part now; both bulbs are for 12v systems, but the +130 is rated at 450 hrs, and the +100 is rated 400 hours at an unnamed voltage.

    What could they have possibly done to increase life 10% - higher gas pressure perhaps?

    The +130 has a smaller band near the tip, but adds one at the base...compromises, compromises.

    Alaric & Virgil - hope one of you tests out the +130 very soon, so I can see the light.
    Last edited by Ofelas; 11-29-2014 at 03:51 PM.

  12. #12
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    So the blue band at the base affects high beam performance, and the blue band at the tip affects low beams?


    Both blue bands affect the minor filament (used for low beams). But notice the broad window through which the filament is visible that is unfiltered. It's that same direct, unfiltered view that is also the source of the bulk of the light the reflector "sees" and reflects.

    The major filament (for high beams) is entirely wrapped in blue (albeit not as deeply tinted). It really serves no useful purpose from the driver's perspective. (The "tuner" crowd, on the other hand.... bless their hearts.)

    Alaric & Virgil - hope one of you tests out the +130 very soon, so I can see the light.
    My "mental" tests of it say the low beam should be as promised, but the high beam is just too far compromised by the tinting. It also seems like they let the marketing team have a bitt too much leeway. I know Philips has to compete with the PIAA crap because the majority of people aren't very clued in -- but you'd think Philips could make a very good case for their superiority based on real science without the buzzwords and the crowd-following.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 11-29-2014 at 05:03 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    That picture made it clear thank you.

    On a BOBI H4 and a E-Code Cibie - would you choose the X-treme vision or the Osram 70/65 Rallye ?

    Now I gotz to get some spray blue paintz for the bulbz and lower my lifted truckz with bagz to clear the street bumpz.

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    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    LOL
    I want a head lamp that's 20% more Minty but 30% Fresher!
    Of course, don't we all?! Philips understands: Try the combination of a green + a blue Colorvision H4 to increase your car's recognition rate by up to 25%!!
    http://www.bilupplysningen.se/public.../12342CVPB.jpg

  15. #15

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    On a BOBI H4 and a E-Code Cibie - would you choose the X-treme vision or the Osram 70/65 Rallye?
    Probably the Xtreme Vision. See here.

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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    So the blue band at the base affects high beam performance, and the blue band at the tip affects low beams?

    I see the voltage part now; both bulbs are for 12v systems, but the +130 is rated at 450 hrs, and the +100 is rated 400 hours at an unnamed voltage.

    What could they have possibly done to increase life 10% - higher gas pressure perhaps?

    The +130 has a smaller band near the tip, but adds one at the base...compromises, compromises.

    Alaric & Virgil - hope one of you tests out the +130 very soon, so I can see the light.
    I think they are limited to total lumen output...so to reduce the lumen output that would not be a position to focus and send OTF, and allow the proportion of total allowed lumens to be allocated towards the OTF, they put bands to filter out the output that would subtract from their total w/o helping OTF.

    And to make it minty fresh when not needed for output proportioning reasons.
    Last edited by TEEJ; 11-29-2014 at 05:47 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Virgil - excellent read thx, looks like I'll go with the X-treme vision.

    On a standard Philips H4 or an Xtravision - when the BOBI lamps are correctly focused according to VOL, is it normal for the high beams to shift left?
    Aren't they supposed to be centered ?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Probably the Xtreme Vision. See here.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Yes, if you're looking at the hot spot, it's normal for it to jump left and up when you switch from low to high beam, and jump right and down when you switch from high to low beam.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Understood.
    But when the low beams are aligned correctly, the high beam hot spots seems way to the left of the headlamp centerlines.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Could be -- depending on which version of the Bobi lamps you have, they may have been designed to conform to the photometric requirements of SAE J579a (1965), which was the only allowable headlamp standard in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 until 1978, when J579c (1974) was added. The relevant difference between J579a and J579c is the maximum allowable high beam intensity straight ahead of the lamp (at H/V, on axis). In J579a the limit is 37,500 candela. In J579c the limit is 75,000 candela. Note that this is a maximum allowable at one particular test point (H/V), not "anywhere in the beam". So it is completely possible that a headlamp designed to the older standard might have what appears to be a relatively low intensity in the middle of the beam pattern, with a relatively high intensity offset somewhat in any direction from the middle of the beam pattern. Please note this is an educated guess on my part; I don't have direct firm knowledge that this is the reason. But the BOBI headlamps were being designed at the same time as US headlamp regulations were changing to allow greater high beam intensity on axis (as well as other changes), and there are no other likely explanations for the multiple versions of the BOBI headlamp.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Here is a link from Philips Singapore on the +100% bulbs. http://www.philips.com.sg/c-p/9005XV...specifications Philips provide the B3/Tc value as 200/400 . When the B3/Tc values are published, they are always tested at 13.2V .

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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Understood.
    But when the low beams are aligned correctly, the high beam hot spots seems way to the left of the headlamp centerlines.
    Most that I see are essentially low to the P-side in low, to get more shoulder/less oncoming traffic glare....and higher to the D-side on hi, to shine more down the center line of the road, farther away than when there was oncoming traffic.

    The centerline of the road is obviously going to be be far D-side of the center line between the headlights.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    I'm likely not being logical about trying "brighter" bulbs to help compensate, but so far, H4 housings haven't impressed me.

    I've tried Cibie ECE housings (aimed by ECE pattern) , Cibie BOBI housings (aimed at VOL pattern), with various flavors of bulbs - Narva +50, Narva 55/100, Narva 80/100, Philips XtraVision, Nightguide, and a couple good brands of OE replacement bulbs.

    I finally found an old timer owned shop with a mechanical contraption for aiming them, and done so on a DOT approved level surface.

    My wiring/voltage is above whats needed, but the light pattern/throw underwhelm me.

    The Trucklite LED housings (set to VOL) give me the most seeing offroad & highway, on low as well as high. I see more on high with these than even the Narva 55/100 H4 bulbs. When I use the Trucklites on low, it makes me wonder whether all my previous H4 low filaments were working at all.

    What am I doing wrong? I do eat plenty of carrots, but the 9007 XtraVisions in my '01 Ram & 9007 Nightguides in the '03 Liberty seem much more usable than the Cibie H4's.

  24. #24
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    DOT approved level surface.
    The DOT approves level surfaces now?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    The DOT approves level surfaces now?
    A DOT (MOT) fleet inspection facility which obviously has the required level surface.

    I will let someone with constructive input help me, rather than a bored web surfer who chooses to ignore the content in my query.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    so far, H4 housings haven't impressed me.
    Nobody knowledgeable ever said H4 headlamps are the be-all, end-all, best headlamps in the world, though that is a common claim among Euro-fans, including on this site (see here and here starting at post #14 for example). There are some good to very good H4 headlamps, but there are also plenty of weak ones.

    I've tried Cibie ECE housings (aimed by ECE pattern)
    Should have aimed these to VOL specs; the Euro aim setting specs are very low in catering to certain governments' unjustifiable singleminded priority on minimizing glare.

    I finally found an old timer owned shop with a mechanical contraption for aiming them, and done so on a DOT approved level surface.
    I'm assuming you are talking about the BOBI lamps here, because ECE lamps don't have aiming pads for use with a mechanical aimer.

    The Trucklite LED housings (set to VOL)
    That's not actually possible. The US-spec Truck-Lite LED lamps do not have a cutoff on the left side of the low beam pattern, so there is no way to aim them to VOL. They can be aimed to VOR using the cutoff at the top of the right side of the low beam pattern. How exactly did you aim them?

    When I use the Trucklites on low, it makes me wonder whether all my previous H4 low filaments were working at all.
    That's not surprising, since you are comparing relatively expensive 2013 technology (the LEDs) to relatively inexpensive 1973 technology (the H4s). Good LED headlamps have much more flux in the beam and give longer seeing distance because of the higher-intensity hot spot. That said, there are halogen headlamps -- there are even sealed beams! -- that give objective performance very similar to the Truck-Lite LEDs you like.

    What am I doing wrong?
    From your description, the only thing I see you doing wrong is trying to aim the Truck-Lite LEDs to the VOL spec.

    the 9007 XtraVisions in my '01 Ram & 9007 Nightguides in the '03 Liberty seem much more usable than the Cibie H4's.
    This is an interesting comment, because neither of those headlamps are very good ('01 Ram, I am assuming Sport since you mention 9007; '03 Liberty). Still, in a head-to-head versus a good H4, either of them would have plus points and minus points.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Hi Virgil,

    You are correct on all counts.

    ECE Cibie aimed visually

    BOBI aimed mechanically to VOL

    I did the Trucklites like you told me to a few months back - so it must be VOR (if I incorrectly used VOL I must have used the left side of the hotspot)

    I will double check what I did with the Trucklites when it gets dark - if wrong, I will get them mechanically aimed again.

    Yes, Sport Ram with Sylvania Xtravisions & '03 Liberty with surprisingly good Nightguides.

    I found the GE Nighthawk 6x8 sealed beam units more useful than either the Cibie ECE or BOBI...go figure.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    The GE Night Hawk 142mm x 200mm sealed beam (H6054NH) is sure a fine headlamp for the money, though its lifespan isn't very long.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    Interestingly (I was just looking up the H6054NH, thinking it might do better than the H4 Hellas in my F250), I see that in addition to the GE H6054NH Nighthawk halogen lamp, there is now a GE Nighthawk LED headlight to replace the H6054 lamp.

    However, the difference between $14.76 per bulb and $286.67 per bulb (Amazon prices) is - - - significant.
    There are two kinds of light - the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures. ~James Thurber

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Philips X-treme Vision +100 vs X-treme Vision +130

    I've been looking at Phillips extreme power and crystal vision ultra. From what I can see the Kelvin temperature of the bulb on the Crystal Vision is just about right, a nice pure bright white my only concern is how long these bulbs will actually last.

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