The war on terror isn't limited to abroad
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pedalinbob
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
wow.
scary stuff.
Bob
wow.
scary stuff.
Bob
LED-FX
Enlightened
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Blooming `eck , more on that story in real audio:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5351.htm
www.news.google.com is always handy
Adam
Blooming `eck , more on that story in real audio:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5351.htm
www.news.google.com is always handy
Adam
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Only having a media slant on this I would have to reserve judgement. It is amazing that when the government defines one of our advisaries it always seems to have racial, or religious perspective to it. I guess those get to us more. As the last line says much of what he had was perfectly legal.
If I emptied all of the rounds I have here I would probably have enough gunpowder for a couple of bombs. No doubt if the government got pissed at me, and raided my place, that would be their position.
Only having a media slant on this I would have to reserve judgement. It is amazing that when the government defines one of our advisaries it always seems to have racial, or religious perspective to it. I guess those get to us more. As the last line says much of what he had was perfectly legal.
If I emptied all of the rounds I have here I would probably have enough gunpowder for a couple of bombs. No doubt if the government got pissed at me, and raided my place, that would be their position.
LED-FX
Enlightened
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Good point about how the story may be have been spun.Partly why put pointer to news.google, always try and get more than one view....
Sodium cyanide might be industrial level rat poison, that`s where the Nazis got the idea.
Sulphuric acid may have been for batteries or drain cleaner.
If he was a dealer in weapons and surplus may have a legitimate reason for 500,000 rounds of ammunition.
But the KKK calling cards are reminiscent of football (soccer to Americans) casuals here. Just violent thugs groupng round football teams posing as `supporters`.If you substitute football team for religion or political group or racial group or housing scheme ,can still just be thugs looking for a banner to group under.
Terrorism is horrible form whichever direction it comes.
Adam
Good point about how the story may be have been spun.Partly why put pointer to news.google, always try and get more than one view....
Sodium cyanide might be industrial level rat poison, that`s where the Nazis got the idea.
Sulphuric acid may have been for batteries or drain cleaner.
If he was a dealer in weapons and surplus may have a legitimate reason for 500,000 rounds of ammunition.
But the KKK calling cards are reminiscent of football (soccer to Americans) casuals here. Just violent thugs groupng round football teams posing as `supporters`.If you substitute football team for religion or political group or racial group or housing scheme ,can still just be thugs looking for a banner to group under.
Terrorism is horrible form whichever direction it comes.
Adam
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
[ QUOTE ]
LED-FX said:
Terrorism is horrible form whichever direction it comes.
Adam
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct. However, we are suppose to pride ourselves in charging a person with terrorism after comiting the act, or demonstrating the intent. Not just because he happens to have some things the government doesn't like.
[ QUOTE ]
LED-FX said:
Terrorism is horrible form whichever direction it comes.
Adam
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct. However, we are suppose to pride ourselves in charging a person with terrorism after comiting the act, or demonstrating the intent. Not just because he happens to have some things the government doesn't like.
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Bravo25 said: "We are suppose to pride ourselves in charging a person with terrorism after comiting the act, or demonstrating the intent. Not just because he happens to have some things the government doesn't like."
This reminds me of the laws that various states are passing so that they can send you to jail for owning nothing more than the components necessary to manufacture drugs, which list contains some common household items, such as lithium batteries, paint thinner and cold medicine.
Here is the thread that I started a few months back concerning that, in case anyone would like to read up on this related issue.
These sort of "throw them in jail before they can commit the crime" laws are beginning to become more and more prevalent these days, which is a trend that I find to be very Orwellian and very disturbing.
Bravo25 said: "We are suppose to pride ourselves in charging a person with terrorism after comiting the act, or demonstrating the intent. Not just because he happens to have some things the government doesn't like."
This reminds me of the laws that various states are passing so that they can send you to jail for owning nothing more than the components necessary to manufacture drugs, which list contains some common household items, such as lithium batteries, paint thinner and cold medicine.
Here is the thread that I started a few months back concerning that, in case anyone would like to read up on this related issue.
These sort of "throw them in jail before they can commit the crime" laws are beginning to become more and more prevalent these days, which is a trend that I find to be very Orwellian and very disturbing.
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Amen to that, tkl !! Doesn't seem that Bad Guys pay much attention to laws do they? I am just tired of folks who show opposition to things I enjoy (like firearms and knives) trying to make them unavailable to me because they are scared of inanimate objects. If you want to be afraid of something, fear the criminal, after all, it isn't the means that makes him dangerous it's the motive that is what inspires him to find whatever means he deems neccessary.
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Amen to that, tkl !! Doesn't seem that Bad Guys pay much attention to laws do they? I am just tired of folks who show opposition to things I enjoy (like firearms and knives) trying to make them unavailable to me because they are scared of inanimate objects. If you want to be afraid of something, fear the criminal, after all, it isn't the means that makes him dangerous it's the motive that is what inspires him to find whatever means he deems neccessary.
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
[ QUOTE ]
X-CalBR8 said:
This reminds me of the laws that various states are passing so that they can send you to jail for owning nothing more than the components necessary to manufacture drugs, which list contains some common household items, such as lithium batteries, paint thinner and cold medicine.
I have actually arrested people for those very things X. They had 5 + bottles of "heat", 20 boxes of pseudoephedrine, 4 bottles of "red devil lye", two bottles of hydrogen peroxide, 1 can of coleman lantern fuel, plastic tubing and duct tape.
One of each item is normal in a house hold, most everyone here probably has most of these "components", but to the numbers above. Based on this we get a warrant and recover the rest of the lab, %100 of the time. That is not a frivolous law.
Just north of here was where T. McVeigh (the devil keep his soul) hung out. The bomb he used was made from commercial grade fertilizer and diesle fuel. Had we stopped him prior to OK City, should the cops have let him drive off?
[ QUOTE ]
X-CalBR8 said:
This reminds me of the laws that various states are passing so that they can send you to jail for owning nothing more than the components necessary to manufacture drugs, which list contains some common household items, such as lithium batteries, paint thinner and cold medicine.
I have actually arrested people for those very things X. They had 5 + bottles of "heat", 20 boxes of pseudoephedrine, 4 bottles of "red devil lye", two bottles of hydrogen peroxide, 1 can of coleman lantern fuel, plastic tubing and duct tape.
One of each item is normal in a house hold, most everyone here probably has most of these "components", but to the numbers above. Based on this we get a warrant and recover the rest of the lab, %100 of the time. That is not a frivolous law.
Just north of here was where T. McVeigh (the devil keep his soul) hung out. The bomb he used was made from commercial grade fertilizer and diesle fuel. Had we stopped him prior to OK City, should the cops have let him drive off?
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
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- 13,489
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
was this world always screwed up?crazy people always doing something crazy today.
was this world always screwed up?crazy people always doing something crazy today.
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Re. X-CalBR8's thread on lithium batteries. Is the lithium reduced to another compound in a depleted cell? Could one get busted even if no useable lithium remains in a cell? In my area a gram of pot has turned into several ounces because the storage container is considered part of whatever drug is contained within. I can just imagine what a drug-buster might think if they would see a CR-123 sitting atop my triple-beam!
Re. X-CalBR8's thread on lithium batteries. Is the lithium reduced to another compound in a depleted cell? Could one get busted even if no useable lithium remains in a cell? In my area a gram of pot has turned into several ounces because the storage container is considered part of whatever drug is contained within. I can just imagine what a drug-buster might think if they would see a CR-123 sitting atop my triple-beam!
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
The ltithium battery is not the problem. How many do you have disassembled and reposing in a glass of kerosene.
If it is not advantageous to separate the container from the dope it gets weighed in it's entirety. The lab separates it and provides a true weight. In the end that is what a person is tried for, the lab weight. The total weight (with container)looks good in the paper and demonizes the suspect in the local paper. It has no value in court.
The ltithium battery is not the problem. How many do you have disassembled and reposing in a glass of kerosene.
If it is not advantageous to separate the container from the dope it gets weighed in it's entirety. The lab separates it and provides a true weight. In the end that is what a person is tried for, the lab weight. The total weight (with container)looks good in the paper and demonizes the suspect in the local paper. It has no value in court.
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Well, Chengiz, we would certainly have to disagree on this point. Just because someone has the stuff to make drugs or explosives is certainly no reason to send that person to jail. I'm sure that there are those that would disagree with me though or else the laws wouldn't be stacked the way they are.
As for your above example, you would almost certainly be carting me off to jail because I most likely have all of those things around here and in probably near those above mention quantities, and I am certainly no drug dealer! For the government to say that I am one, just because I have the potential to be one is ludicrous and a miscarriage of justice.
I have the potential to build a high explosive out of fertilizer and hand soap that could blow up most anything, and I, as well as most of the people here have the materials to do so. So far as having the knowledge to do so goes, that could be argued to death in a court room because you can never in a million years prove what you do or do not know, but you can sure be railroaded by a slick prosecuting attorney.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for arresting criminals that cause great harm to society through their immoral acts, but I also believe in a justice system where you actually *wait* for the criminal to commit the crime instead of only considering doing it, or even planning to do it. We are headed for a very slippery slope when you start throwing people in jail for what they *might* do or what they are likely to do.
By the same logic as given above, since I own a gun, it could easily be argued that I intend to use it to murder someone, and so the government had better be a good big brother/father and take that nasty and dangerous tool of mass destruction away from me. I, as only a lowly citizen, could never be trusted with a weapon that could easily be used to kill hundreds or even thousands of people.
As an example, if I do have possession of high explosives, it doesn't necessarily mean that I intend to go and blow up a federal building, I could just as easily intend to go blow up some tree stumps on the farm. Nobody can read my mind nor my intent nor anyone else's.
Chengiz, I don't blame you for doing your job that you are paid to do, but I do blame our idiotic law makers that take away more and more of our freedoms each and every year and treats it's citizens as little children that can't be allowed to own or posses anything that is even remotely dangerous, because of what they just *might* do with it.
If things keep up like they are now, it won't be another generation or two till this country is run like a police state and our every move and purchase is monitored and weighed by those people that are searching for those who just *might* commit a crime with the items that they posses. I'm sure that there are many out there that will disagree with this viewpoint, but this is a very scary and sad future to me, and a very likely one if things continue as they are presently...
Well, Chengiz, we would certainly have to disagree on this point. Just because someone has the stuff to make drugs or explosives is certainly no reason to send that person to jail. I'm sure that there are those that would disagree with me though or else the laws wouldn't be stacked the way they are.
As for your above example, you would almost certainly be carting me off to jail because I most likely have all of those things around here and in probably near those above mention quantities, and I am certainly no drug dealer! For the government to say that I am one, just because I have the potential to be one is ludicrous and a miscarriage of justice.
I have the potential to build a high explosive out of fertilizer and hand soap that could blow up most anything, and I, as well as most of the people here have the materials to do so. So far as having the knowledge to do so goes, that could be argued to death in a court room because you can never in a million years prove what you do or do not know, but you can sure be railroaded by a slick prosecuting attorney.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for arresting criminals that cause great harm to society through their immoral acts, but I also believe in a justice system where you actually *wait* for the criminal to commit the crime instead of only considering doing it, or even planning to do it. We are headed for a very slippery slope when you start throwing people in jail for what they *might* do or what they are likely to do.
By the same logic as given above, since I own a gun, it could easily be argued that I intend to use it to murder someone, and so the government had better be a good big brother/father and take that nasty and dangerous tool of mass destruction away from me. I, as only a lowly citizen, could never be trusted with a weapon that could easily be used to kill hundreds or even thousands of people.
As an example, if I do have possession of high explosives, it doesn't necessarily mean that I intend to go and blow up a federal building, I could just as easily intend to go blow up some tree stumps on the farm. Nobody can read my mind nor my intent nor anyone else's.
Chengiz, I don't blame you for doing your job that you are paid to do, but I do blame our idiotic law makers that take away more and more of our freedoms each and every year and treats it's citizens as little children that can't be allowed to own or posses anything that is even remotely dangerous, because of what they just *might* do with it.
If things keep up like they are now, it won't be another generation or two till this country is run like a police state and our every move and purchase is monitored and weighed by those people that are searching for those who just *might* commit a crime with the items that they posses. I'm sure that there are many out there that will disagree with this viewpoint, but this is a very scary and sad future to me, and a very likely one if things continue as they are presently...
Charles Bradshaw
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
How about this one, since I happen to be Gay:
We (Gays) brought HIV/AIDS to the USA. That has not been recognized as an act of Biological Warfare to this point in time.
The premises in Biowar are to have your target population do the spreading of the disease for you, and, it is more psychological damage than actual deaths from the bio-agent used.
Now, if the Feds decided to recognize this as an act of Biological Warfare, then you have a Gay terrorist population in the USA that makes all others put together in numbers, look sick. A minimum of 3,000,000 and a maximum of 30,000,000 and that is just us gays (based on a population of 300,000,000).
The real question is how would we be sorted out of the rest of the population?? That is tough to do.
Could it come to this???? In my mind it could. Possible is one thing. Probable is something else.
The basis for the above, is that the FBI Director under Reagan, William Sessions, declared ALL gays to be traitors for no other reason than being gay.
Since this topic is about domestic terrorism and WMD, I thought the above fit right in.
How about this one, since I happen to be Gay:
We (Gays) brought HIV/AIDS to the USA. That has not been recognized as an act of Biological Warfare to this point in time.
The premises in Biowar are to have your target population do the spreading of the disease for you, and, it is more psychological damage than actual deaths from the bio-agent used.
Now, if the Feds decided to recognize this as an act of Biological Warfare, then you have a Gay terrorist population in the USA that makes all others put together in numbers, look sick. A minimum of 3,000,000 and a maximum of 30,000,000 and that is just us gays (based on a population of 300,000,000).
The real question is how would we be sorted out of the rest of the population?? That is tough to do.
Could it come to this???? In my mind it could. Possible is one thing. Probable is something else.
The basis for the above, is that the FBI Director under Reagan, William Sessions, declared ALL gays to be traitors for no other reason than being gay.
Since this topic is about domestic terrorism and WMD, I thought the above fit right in.
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
It would seem to me that if laws are in place restricting possession of a certain substances, and someone is arrested and prosecuted, the possession was the crime. The subject wasn't jailed for something he might do. He was jailed for something he did.
If laws aren't in place restricting possession, but the possession is supporting evidence of probability in a crime, that possession could be used in the prosecution as evidence. Again, the subject isn't jailed for something he might do. He's jailed for something he did.
I fail to see the reasoning in your claims of someone being jailed for what the might do.
It would seem to me that if laws are in place restricting possession of a certain substances, and someone is arrested and prosecuted, the possession was the crime. The subject wasn't jailed for something he might do. He was jailed for something he did.
If laws aren't in place restricting possession, but the possession is supporting evidence of probability in a crime, that possession could be used in the prosecution as evidence. Again, the subject isn't jailed for something he might do. He's jailed for something he did.
I fail to see the reasoning in your claims of someone being jailed for what the might do.
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
I fail to see the reasoning in your claims of someone being jailed for what the might do.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what they want you believe, and that is sum of the parts.
[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
I fail to see the reasoning in your claims of someone being jailed for what the might do.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what they want you believe, and that is sum of the parts.
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
Oh! Now I see. Why didn't you say so in the first place. You're talking about "they". Nope, you can't trust "they". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
I really must butt out of this, I think. I tend to become overly cycnical of charges against enemies called "they".
Oh! Now I see. Why didn't you say so in the first place. You're talking about "they". Nope, you can't trust "they". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
I really must butt out of this, I think. I tend to become overly cycnical of charges against enemies called "they".
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
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Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
sometimes i laugh at some of the stuff i read here!but i still wish you all a happy new years
sometimes i laugh at some of the stuff i read here!but i still wish you all a happy new years
BlindedByTheLite
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: The war on terror isn\'t limited to abroad
it's just the way it works..
it only takes a hand full of ppl to influence the laws that govern the entire state/country.. everyone's lives are going to be changed to save face, and likely prohibit the events from happening again and with raised frequency.
a completely silly and overboard method, but necessary, and worth the change..
i can adapt to stupid laws if it'll prevent an Oklahoma City bombing or a WTC terrorist attack, y'know? i don't like having my American freedom restricted, but i don't like having my American brothers/sisters killed off either.. (not that i like ppl from any other country being killed, doh)
if only everyone were as friendly as a CPFer.
it's just the way it works..
it only takes a hand full of ppl to influence the laws that govern the entire state/country.. everyone's lives are going to be changed to save face, and likely prohibit the events from happening again and with raised frequency.
a completely silly and overboard method, but necessary, and worth the change..
i can adapt to stupid laws if it'll prevent an Oklahoma City bombing or a WTC terrorist attack, y'know? i don't like having my American freedom restricted, but i don't like having my American brothers/sisters killed off either.. (not that i like ppl from any other country being killed, doh)
if only everyone were as friendly as a CPFer.
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