LS4: Does it use a Luxeon III?

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FlashlightOCD

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Will the LS4 use a Luxeon III or some other premium type of LED that is significantly brighter than those used in the LSH-P?

If it is nothing more than a LSH-P with a bunch of digitally programmed bells and whistles I would have no interest.
 

x-ray

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The LS4 (now known as Arc4) uses a 1watt LS.

Full specs can be found here

Go ahead and take a look, some of those "bells & whistles" sound pretty good /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

FlashlightOCD

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Thanks to for link x-ray, I do not frequent this forum very often.

I agree the bells and whistles do sound very nice, but I really think they are wasted on just another 1W LS.

IMO, and I do realize I am in the minority in this forum, I think it would be a waste of money unless the Arc4 offered more horsepower under the hood. I wouldn't buy a high-end luxury car like a Mercedes if it used a Civic LX engine.

I think the Arc4 introduction, with a standard 1W LS [even a good quality one] is too little too late. The LED technology has advanced too far. The technology in the Arc4 digital circuitry has advanced fine [even to a new level], but to waste it to drive a standard 1W LS seems like a waste to me.

Would it be all that difficult to use all that advanced digital circuitry to drive a Luxeon III?
 

Hoghead

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Another thing about the ARC4 is that the Kroll switch is history. The ARC LSH-P is my favorite light, but the Kroll is the "weak link" so to speak.
 

Gransee

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FlashlightOCD, my design philosophy is a bit different than your run of the mill manufacturer. To me, putting a 1W Luxeon into a EDC light is ideal.

To get a decent amount of power/run time out of a Luxeon III, you would need a bigger battery and heatsink. Bigger flashlights go against my EDC concept.

Sometimes people incorrectly think I follow the, "Tim Allen Philosophy" (more horsepower! ar ar!).

Hoghead, Yes I am excited about the new Arc4 switch too. We have been refining the design for some time. It still not perfect, but it is one of the best switches around. I hope you will find it quite useful.

Peter
 

LukeK

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OCD -- I don't think you quite understand what the Luxeon III is. It's simply a 1 watter that can handle more amperage and thus more heat. However, if you'll notice the bin codes that are common are SV1K or TWAK -- the K denoting the Vf. The only time you begin to see a difference between the Lux III and the regular 1 watter is when it's driven above 700mA. If you'll remember, the boost mode of the LS4 is exactly 700mA so for 90-95% of the time that the LS4 is running, the Lux III's technology would be wasted. In fact since you can easily find 1 watters with lower Vf's, they would be more efficient than the 3 watters at regular EDC currents. Peter chose the right Luxeon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

FlashlightOCD

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[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
... To get a decent amount of power/run time out of a Luxeon III, you would need a bigger battery and heatsink. Bigger flashlights go against my EDC concept ...

Sometimes people incorrectly think I follow the, "Tim Allen Philosophy" (more horsepower ar ar!).

Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Peter,

I would think with your multiple output levels and heat protection circuitry you could offer the best of both worlds without compromising the EDC Package. There are plenty of people driving a Lux III with a single 123. For those who want a long running EDC they just drive it at a more conservative level [after all that's the beauty of having selectable output levels isn't it?].

The Lux III is still a single die LED so it shouldn't require any optics changes, admittedly a better heat sink would allow you to drive it in "turbo" mode a little longer.

I for one would be willing to spend the extra $10-15 bucks to get a Lux III in an Arc4, but I'm not willing to spend a fairly hefty price for the Arc4 if it is just another 1W-LS with some really advanced features.

Just some thoughts from one potential consumer: Let the "Tim Allen" factor be controlled by the customer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 

x-ray

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FlashlightOCD, perhaps the LS5 will be the light for you.
 

Gransee

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FlashlightOCD,

Yes, a Luxeon III can be driven at currents over 700mA from a single 123 cell. But with the small heatsink and possible cell damage, the run time at best is only a minute or so. So adding the Luxeon III only benefits the "boost" mode. However, the Lux III is more difficult to get at bins we want than the 1W. Trading good performance at 95% of typical usage for good performance at 5% of the usage is not a good trade in my opinion. I will leave the hot rods to the modders.

As far as my designs being controlled by the customer: I design the lights according to my ideals first with further input from you. "Design by Committee" typically does not produce exciting designs (a point against macro-evolution?). So I believe there must be a balance in order to achieve innovation.

(edit: just noticed Roth said the same thing about boost)

Peter
 

Rothrandir

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having a lux3 would do next to nothing to improve the light as a whole.

on the boost level, it might put out 2 or 3 more lumens, but not all that much.

remember that the primary drive level will not be 700ma, only the boost will!
anything less than that will be better suited for the 1watter, not the lux3. even at those levels a 1w still performs admirably.

as has been said, this isn't the light for the "tim allen" consumer, so why try to make it that way?
if you want bright, go out and buy a surefire l4 or a mod.
if you want a near-perfect edc, then buy an ls4, it's really as simple as that.
 

shiftd

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[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
having a lux3 would do next to nothing to improve the light as a whole.

on the boost level, it might put out 2 or 3 more lumens, but not all that much.

remember that the primary drive level will not be 700ma, only the boost will!
anything less than that will be better suited for the 1watter, not the lux3. even at those levels a 1w still performs admirably.

as has been said, this isn't the light for the "tim allen" consumer, so why try to make it that way?
if you want bright, go out and buy a surefire l4 or a mod.
if you want a near-perfect edc, then buy an ls4, it's really as simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said, roth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
also, for bright, you can get L5, L6, etc etc (you know what i mean) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

to add to what already been said, Lux3 actually gives POORer performance than the 1W if you run it 350 - 400 mA. But we all know that LS4 mainly run in 350 mA range, so using Lux 3 would not be a good idea, at all. beside, the purpose of LS4 is as edc, as a light where you can use and carry whenever you go. If you want bright and long throwing light, you should carry some other flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
isn't that what define us, flashaholic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

srue

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OCD,
Keep in mind that even with a 1W LS, the Arc4 will still be brighter than a "mere" LSH-P. In boost mode it will provide over double the current, and in the regular modes it can provide well over 100mA more than the LSH-P.

If twice the brightness is not a great enough improvement considering the light physically got smaller, than your standards are too high. Maybe you should wait for the 5W version.
 

shiftd

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SRue, delivering over twice the current does not necesarily gives you twice the output. i think it was more like 1.5 times, at most.
 

Charles Bradshaw

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OCD;

Take note of this - The Arc4 (LS4), uses a Reflector, not optics. This gives a tighter hotspot, better throw, and, a better light pattern than the LSH.

Having a user selectable high and low output, squishes the complaints about reduction in runtime. I was one of those against reducing the runtime from the 3 1/2 hours of the Rev1 circuit, to the 2 1/2 hours of the Rev2 circuit with CR123As.

I am sure that Peter remembers me semi-ranting my head off here in the Arc forum over this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I believe in using the minimum level of light needed for the task. Of course, most of this comes from my income of $394 per month Social Security.

Now, with the Arc4 and presumably Arc5, being able to run off of Pila LiIon batteries, this is even better.

I have 2 Rev1 LSes, and an LSH-S. I have a custom 2C pack to extend runtimes, and a 4AA (series/parallel) headlamp mod.

I will be getting 3 Arc4 Premiums (presuming there will be premiums) and all battery packs (1 each per light). I will wait until after the CPF feeding frenzy is over with, before I make my purchase.
 

BentHeadTX

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I like the idea of the Luxeon III in the Arc4,
Mainly, because S is the lowest bin in the Luxeon III's and that equates to a Q ranked 1 watter. When I buy an Arc4-P, I will be really angry if it comes out to a P ranked beast. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif Yes, it will be immediately compared to a BB500 R2H Fraen and I want to get close at least.
The main thing above all is great heat sinking, I think Peter has kept an eye on that. Gotta love a light with a thermal sensor built in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
 

Darell

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[ QUOTE ]
shiftd said:
SRue, delivering over twice the current does not necesarily gives you twice the output. i think it was more like 1.5 times, at most.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even that is being too generous, I'm afriad. Please don't expect the Arc4 to be twice as bright as the LS's that have come before.
 

Miciobigio

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[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
...
So adding the Luxeon III only benefits the "boost" mode.
...
I will leave the hot rods to the modders.
...


Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the led in the ARC4 "easily replaceable" (as that of LSHP) ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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