Oddity in Australian Law

radiopej

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I just saw an article about a man arrested for having flares in NSW. One of the charges was "possess bright light/distress signal in public place". So I Googled it and found [h=3]CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 93FB[/h]
(1) A person who, in a public place, possesses:
(d) a distress signal, or distress flare, that operates by emitting a bright light,
is liable, on conviction before the Local Court, to imprisonment for 2 years, or a fine of 50 penalty units, or both.

... does this technically include strobes on a flashlight?

Yep, we regulate every little thing here. The law does point out they can have it for reasonable use or self-defence, but that will need to be shown in court.
 

BillSWPA

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I would also check the definitions section of the law to see exactly how the prohibited items are defined. It may or may not correspond to the conventional understanding of the terms used.
 

degarb

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2 years, for a strobe?

Wow, our city had a light up Akron festival. We'd got lots of years...Then, there is new years.... Anyway, I always thought of strobe as a way to reunite with your family if you got lost and separated from them in a crowd-besides roadside breakdowns..... Haloween is a good time for strobe, too.
 
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mvyrmnd

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It'll be one of those laws that you probably get charged on, but would never be enforced for a torch.

Plus, strobe is not a distress signal. SOS is, however.

But, you could argue the cheap chinese lights that flash S O S O S O... are exempt too, as that is not a valid distress signal either.
 

Grijon

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Strobe disorients and agitates people; you very well could get in trouble for using it in a crowd (whether by the crowd, and/or the police, and/or the property owners) and you could get dead for using it on oncoming drivers.
 

degarb

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Strobe disorients and agitates people; you very well could get in trouble for using it in a crowd (whether by the crowd, and/or the police, and/or the property owners) and you could get dead for using it on oncoming drivers.

Out of the hundred lights that I bought since 2006, about 16 had some other mode. I have no control of the mode sos/strobe: likely, I will never use it, likely I will never even imagine I will ever use it.. But, in a pinch any non steady mode could save a life. I do not buy the distressing aspect. After all, people willingly get into strobe situations when they go into bars and party. it is like the person that spends all day staring at a computer screen, working outside, or television then complains they're going to drive off the side of the road because somebody has blue tinted lights on their car.

it seems to me like this is a situation much like a radio in your car. If it becomes a problem you request the person turn off the radio. You don't go around arresting everybody using a radio to require assistance.



You should be mindful of breaking down in trying to save myself from getting hit by an oncoming driver or having some unforeseen event where you will be relying on this for your livelihood. Chances of getting mowed down by a unaware driver as you change the tire is quite high, compared to a baby running off the road because distressed by the strobe. … ..soory composed on cellphone. Can nit edet pepperly. Now, back to keeping my eyes on the road :)
 

Grijon

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Out of the hundred lights that I bought since 2006, about 16 had some other mode. I have no control of the mode sos/strobe: likely, I will never use it, likely I will never even imagine I will ever use it.. But, in a pinch any non steady mode could save a life. I do not buy the distressing aspect. After all, people willingly get into strobe situations when they go into bars and party. it is like the person that spends all day staring at a computer screen, working outside, or television then complains they're going to drive off the side of the road because somebody has blue tinted lights on their car.

This is true; people willingly get into strobe situations - but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about an individual in a crowd. At the very least, you're being extremely rude to every other person in your vicinity, and sometimes crowds don't respond well to individuals upsetting the crowd. I'm not saying what will happen, but trying to help you see what could happen. Does that make sense?

As for 'not buying the distressing aspect': what you do or don't believe doesn't matter much to the people you're strobing. In my experience nearly 100% of the people that I've demonstrated strobe for get extremely agitated, even knowing that it's coming. Again, I'm not saying what will or won't happen, but rather sharing my first-hand experience with the forum.

My personal opinion is that strobing a crowd is extremely rude, has the potential to turn ugly, and I can easily see a person getting charged by police for 'public disturbance' or something along those lines for doing so. You're free to have your own opinion, my friend.

it seems to me like this is a situation much like a radio in your car. If it becomes a problem you request the person turn off the radio. You don't go around arresting everybody using a radio to require assistance.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that analogy fits whatsoever. Perhaps a bullhorn would be a better one? Can you see how using a bullhorn in a crowd for you (an individual) to find your family (a small group of people) in a large crowd of people (that are there with nothing to do with you whatsoever) may return a sub-optimal result?


You should be mindful of breaking down in trying to save myself from getting hit by an oncoming driver or having some unforeseen event where you will be relying on this for your livelihood.
I completely agree that roadside situations are inherently dangerous and you would do well to help make yourself visible, but as another forum member said in another thread, 'Disorienting the driver barreling towards you is not the way to go about this!!!' A flare, a glowstick, a diffuser-equipped flashlight, a blinking flashlight, your vehicle's own blinking hazard lights (that is what they're there for, LOL), even just a flashlight on the road - all of these are much better solutions than strobing an oncoming driver. Your vehicle's built-in reflectors would be better than strobing. Strobing is just a bad, bad idea on the road; and I have no doubt whatsoever that you could face police charges for that - again, not saying that you will, but that you could.

:)
 

ForrestChump

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I equate this to what I call D--- H--- laws here in the states. Knife laws are UNBELIEVABLY ambiguous and drastically vary from state to state. As long as you use common sense and aren't a D.H, I doubt you'll run into trouble unless you're doing something extremely stupid / attention grabbing like carrying a sword. ( at least state side ). A good example is if you happen to have a pocket knife that's 3". The law is 3" and longer is illegal if carried concealed, but your pocket clip is showing. You get pulled over for speeding and begin breaking the D.H. rule by bitching at the officer. He then has the option to use the law to his advantage and considers the knife as concealed. If you do the math your doing 3 things wrong instead of technically breaking the law with the pocket knife. 1) You're breaking the D.H. rule. 2) You're showing poor judgment speeding and breaking the law. 3) You are technically carrying what could be interpreted as a weapon according to the letter of the law.

It gives LEO greater flexibility to make a judgment call and how they choose to interpret that law based on the circumstances.
 
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WalkIntoTheLight

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I doubt you'll run into trouble unless you're doing something extremely stupid / attention grabbing like carrying a sword. ( at least state side ). A good example is if you happen to have a pocket knife that's 3". The law is 3" and longer is illegal if carried concealed, but your pocket clip is showing.

I don't get it. A gun is far more dangerous than a sword or knife, but you're allowed to carry a gun in the U.S. (in some states), but not a large knife?
 

chillinn

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But, you could argue the cheap chinese lights that flash S O S O S O... are exempt too, as that is not a valid distress signal either.

Skipper, I can't raise the Liberty on comm, they appear to be adrift, and it looks like we're receiving an optical distress signal from someone on their deck... sorry, Sir, one minute... no... not distress.... Nevermind, Captain, looks like they're just "so-so."
 

alpg88

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I don't get it. A gun is far more dangerous than a sword or knife, but you're allowed to carry a gun in the U.S. (in some states), but not a large knife?
just like gun laws, knife laws vary from state to state. in some states you can carry big fixed knife on your belt. in others you will be in jail, for a small folder.
 

ForrestChump

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just like gun laws, knife laws vary from state to state. in some states you can carry big fixed knife on your belt. in others you will be in jail, for a small folder.


As stated, it's all over the place here from state to state.
 

jorn

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I use emergency red handheld flares every new year eve. Its nothing like a flashlight. You got a 50 000 lux handheld fire on a stick that spits flames and make your eyebrowns curl.... Waaay more dangerous than misusing any flashlight in a crowd.
 

BillSWPA

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I use emergency red handheld flares every new year eve. Its nothing like a flashlight. You got a 50 000 lux handheld fire on a stick that spits flames and make your eyebrowns curl.... Waaay more dangerous than misusing any flashlight in a crowd.

Which gets back to my point about checking the definitions section of the law to see exactly how the prohibited items are defined.
 

jorn

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Yep. I would not light one up in a crowd, not even standing close to one unsuspecting person. Sometimes i even wish my arms were a little bit longer :) Once it's lit, it will burn for about 1-2 min. No water will put this sucker out.. Just like a flashlight, it's made of a aluminium tube. But unlike the flashlight, this thing will melt the aluminium when you light it up.
So I dont think that law sounds odd at all :)
 

alpg88

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here red flares are common, you can buy them in any auto parts stores, cops use tham all the time if there is a serious accident, they set many on the pavement. if you light up one in a crowd you will most liklely get arrested here, or at least ticketed, but if you crash or get stock on the road at night, and you set some around your car, i seriously doubt cops will arrest or even fine you for that.
red flares that shoot up, one can buy here in almost any walmart along with flare gun, in fact uscg requires you to have flare gun on your boat, however if you shoot flares in the city, or in a crowd, you most lilkely will get in trouble.
 

degarb

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Ticket, warning, two years. Seems the diff between something good intentioned and something arrogantly evil.
 

Treeguy

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just like gun laws, knife laws vary from state to state. in some states you can carry big fixed knife on your belt. in others you will be in jail, for a small folder.

Up here it's pretty much the cop's discretion. If he thinks your reason for carrying is valid and the knife is not a blood drenched 12" Klingon battle blade, you're fine.

If, however, the cop does not like your justification, anything pointy will get you in some sort of trouble.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Up here it's pretty much the cop's discretion. If he thinks your reason for carrying is valid and the knife is not a blood drenched 12" Klingon battle blade, you're fine.

If, however, the cop does not like your justification, anything pointy will get you in some sort of trouble.

Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#Canada

As long as you're not hiding it, it's legal to carry a knife pretty-much any length. Not switchblades and stuff like that, though. Sword... probably not, but I'm not sure what the dividing line is.

They'd have to charge you with some lame crime like mischief, if they didn't like you carrying a knife.
 

FPSRelic

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I just saw an article about a man arrested for having flares in NSW. One of the charges was "possess bright light/distress signal in public place". So I Googled it and found CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 93FB


(1) A person who, in a public place, possesses:
(d) a distress signal, or distress flare, that operates by emitting a bright light,
is liable, on conviction before the Local Court, to imprisonment for 2 years, or a fine of 50 penalty units, or both.

... does this technically include strobes on a flashlight?

Yep, we regulate every little thing here. The law does point out they can have it for reasonable use or self-defence, but that will need to be shown in court.

Considering how dangerous a flare can be, I can understand why they would have this law, but I cannot see flashlights with a strobe being included in this law - there are just too many things out there that mimic this - a strobe light used at a nightclub for example.

I've heard of torches getting people into trouble twice. Once was when they have been trespassing on private property with them - As you could be considered to be in possession of tools that indicate intent of burglary.

The other time was when they had a 4d Maglite next to the front seat of a car that had just been pulled over and searched by Police. When asked what the torch was for, the owner said that it was for hitting people with for self defence, at which point the torch ceased to be an illumination device in the eyes of the law and became an improvised weapon, based on the intent of the owner. AFAIK It is illegal to carry any weapon in Australia for purposes of self defence.
 
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