runtime of rechargeable vs. non-rechargeable in LED or non-LED lights

I probably going to be looking into getting a new LED flashlight (as my previous posts indicate). Now, I already have 18650 batteries, and I was thinking just get a light that use those. BUT! I was curious what your experience is with the runtime of rechargeables vs. non-rechargeable (like CR-123) and what the cost differences are.

I was looking at some flashlights that take CR-123, but if those batteries only last an hour (or even two) I can envision spending alot of money (and throwing away alot of used up batteries) just replenishing my stock of CR-123s. Seems cheaper and more environmentally friendly if I were to buy a flashlight that uses rechargeables.

What are people's opinions on flashlights that take CR-123s? Do those batteries last long enough to make them worth while (over using, say, a similar flashlight that uses rechargeables instead?)

And is there a difference in the length of time a battery lasts if its in a LED vs non-LED (incandescent?) flashlight?

If you're rich, or get batteries for free, then go for CR123. Otherwise, use a rechargeable option. You can get rechargeable CR123's, but they only have about a third the capacity of the non-rechargeables.

While the CR123 primaries sound like they have a lot of juice, unless you throw them away every day (because you're rich or they're free), you're going to be stuck with partially-discharged batteries in your light. A CR123 that is on average 50% depleted, suddenly doesn't seem so good for run-times.

Go for an 18650 light if you want long run-times. Otherwise, go for a AA light and use rechargeable NiMH cells such as Eneloops (which have more energy in them than a rechargeable CR123).

Don't even bother with CR123 lights. It's a waste of money if you use primaries, and it's no better than the much safer NiMH AA lights if you want rechargeable.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

If you're rich, or get batteries for free, then go for CR123. Otherwise, use a rechargeable option. You can get rechargeable CR123's, but they only have about a third the capacity of the non-rechargeables.

While the CR123 primaries sound like they have a lot of juice, unless you throw them away every day (because you're rich or they're free), you're going to be stuck with partially-discharged batteries in your light. A CR123 that is on average 50% depleted, suddenly doesn't seem so good for run-times.

Go for an 18650 light if you want long run-times. Otherwise, go for a AA light and use rechargeable NiMH cells such as Eneloops (which have more energy in them than a rechargeable CR123).

Don't even bother with CR123 lights. It's a waste of money if you use primaries, and it's no better than the much safer NiMH AA lights if you want rechargeable.

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That's what I thought. Thanks. (Oh, and I'm not rich, and I don't get batteries for free )

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Don't even bother with CR123 lights. It's a waste of money if you use primaries, and it's no better than the much safer NiMH AA lights if you want rechargeable.

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I like them for bug-out-bags that won't be touched for quite some time. This is the opposite of heavy and daily use. The reason is shelf-life. I consider them relevant to emergency prep.

EDC CR123 primaries? No way! Save the battery budget for more lights! My opinion.

I've got a few lights that only use CR123 or RCR123 (rechargeable) cells. The advantage to a CR123 light is that most drug stores cell batteries for them while the 18650 lights, good luck finding a battery.

A few light manufacturers include a sleeve that goes over two CR123 cells so that they can be used in 18650 based lights, otherwise the fit is a little sloppy.

CR123 based lights are also smaller lights provided that they run on a single cell, so if size is important, the CR123 wins.

The Cr123 format is my favorite. I like the size of the lights! However, it is mandatory for me, that they accept rechargeable cells. I use way way too many, to justify disposable cells. I have a couple dozen tucked away for emergency uses. Beyond that, it's strictly RCR's, and I own plenty that I can have spares with me.

I hear you, Nicrod. I cannot understand why any maker would opt to not support RCR123 in a CR123 light. My remaining CR123-only lights are in bug out bags. The RCR123 compatible lights actually get carried and used (and played with.)

WalkIntoTheLight said:

If you're rich, or get batteries for free, then go for CR123. Otherwise, use a rechargeable option. You can get rechargeable CR123's, but they only have about a third the capacity of the non-rechargeables.

While the CR123 primaries sound like they have a lot of juice, unless you throw them away every day (because you're rich or they're free), you're going to be stuck with partially-discharged batteries in your light. A CR123 that is on average 50% depleted, suddenly doesn't seem so good for run-times.

Go for an 18650 light if you want long run-times. Otherwise, go for a AA light and use rechargeable NiMH cells such as Eneloops (which have more energy in them than a rechargeable CR123).

Don't even bother with CR123 lights. It's a waste of money if you use primaries, and it's no better than the much safer NiMH AA lights if you want rechargeable.

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Dude, you need to stop spouting nonsense about CR123A's on here. Your posts on here are often wrong and full of misinformation(both about performance and pricing). Please do some research or stop posting misinformation. Its not fair to people who are looking for accurate information on here. Specifically stop scaring new users off CR123A because you dont like them

AA NiMH are not comparable to CR123A's. While they have more capacity generally, they are not capable of producing near the current over a period of time. This mean much less lumens for about the same runtime. This is especially evident when using the higher brightness settings on a light. And, although 16340/RCR123a has less capacity then primary CR123A, it is still plenty for EDC uses imo and often adds a nice boost in brightness over primary due to the higher voltage. I use my EDC lights every day(quite a bit) and my 16340/RCR123A powered ones still last all week with daily use. Plus, you can just charge every morning/night if you want to make sure they're topped up for the day.

As for price, get a better job or quit obsessively buying lights you dont need there WalkIntoTheLight. At $1.20 or less for CR123A primary or $3-8 for 16340/RCR123A per cell here in Canada(and even cheaper in the US) you dont exactly have to be rich lol. Especially when one primary would probably last 2 or more weeks of daily usage for an average EDC user.

The bottom line is; CR123A will always allow for a brighter/smaller light then AA. Even with 14500 you still end up with a considerably larger light going with CR123A.

18650 or 26650 are probably the best options when higher capacity/brightness is needed.

As mentioned, rechargeables generally have less energy than primaries, except when they can be double-up (eg, 2CR123 > 16650 or 18650) then you save the packaging space and gain economies of scale.

more_vampires said:

I like them for bug-out-bags that won't be touched for quite some time. This is the opposite of heavy and daily use. The reason is shelf-life. I consider them relevant to emergency prep.

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L91 Lithium-iron AAs are rated for 50% longer shelf life that CR123s and won't go "BOOM" if mismatched and used in series. Same watt-hrs of energy too. Then there's also the 3V Lithium-manganese CRAAs, which are the equivalent of CR123s (although Chinese made), if the AA light can handle them.

Seriously M_V? ... for a battery hacker BOB, you're much more likely to find AA/AAA/C/D/9v to run with a AA light, and of course, if you're using the light I think you are, you can still hack anything from a CR123 to a 26650 too .

NoNotAgain said:

I've got a few lights that only use CR123 or RCR123 (rechargeable) cells. The advantage to a CR123 light is that most drug stores cell batteries for them while the 18650 lights, good luck finding a battery.

A few light manufacturers include a sleeve that goes over two CR123 cells so that they can be used in 18650 based lights, otherwise the fit is a little sloppy..

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You can usually use 2xCR123s to back-up the 18650. Even if an 18650 light's max V is 4.2, you can usually get by with 1xCR123 and a DIY dummy cell (just need tinfoil). Roll a piece of paper in the tube to stop rattle.

more_vampires said:

I hear you, Nicrod. I cannot understand why any maker would opt to not support RCR123 in a CR123 light. My remaining CR123-only lights are in bug out bags. The RCR123 compatible lights actually get carried and used (and played with.)

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Costs money.... light needs a buck driver to handle Li-ions (properly).

Tachead said:

Dude, you need to stop spouting nonsense about CR123A's on here. Your posts on here are often wrong and full of misinformation(both about performance and pricing). Please do some research or stop posting misinformation. Its not fair to people who are looking for accurate information on here. Specifically stop scaring new users off CR123A because you dont like them

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Dude, you need to do your own research. You might like wasting money on throw-away batteries, but I don't. Now, why don't we go through your post and point out your many errors:

AA NiMH are not comparable to CR123A's. While they have more capacity generally, they are not capable of producing near the current over a period of time.

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Ridiculous, dude. Eneloops are quite capable of providing 5 amps of current over sustained periods of time. As high as 10 amps in bursts. Dude, this is plenty of current for EDC lights.

This mean much less lumens for about the same runtime.

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Dude, you can buy a Thrunite 1xAA light that can put out 400 lumens on a single Eneloop. Dude, this is plenty of lumens for a EDC light. Want more? Dude, stick in 2 Eneloops for over 700 lumens. Dude, that's pretty bright! Want more? My 4xAA Sunwayman pumps out about 1000 lumens of light, all while sipping less than 2.5 amps from my Eneloops. Dude, that's bright!

This is especially evident when using the higher brightness settings on a light. And, although 16340/RCR123a has less capacity then primary CR123A, it is still plenty for EDC uses imo and often adds a nice boost in brightness over primary due to the higher voltage.

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Dude, as I said, you get get 400 lumens from a single Eneloop. You don't need to go to lithium rechargeables to get good output. Plus, dude, the lithium rechargeable CR123 has less energy, and is potentially dangerous in muli-cell lights. Dude, you wouldn't want to blow your face off, would you?

I use my EDC lights every day(quite a bit) and my 16340/RCR123A powered ones still last all week with daily use. Plus, you can just charge every morning/night if you want to make sure they're topped up for the day.

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Dude, Eneloops can do just the same. And, dude, they're safer to charge, and I can charge them 2000 times. Way more than your RCR123's, dude.

As for price, get a better job or quit obsessively buying lights you dont need there WalkIntoTheLight. At $1.20 or less for CR123A primary or $3-8 for 16340/RCR123A per cell here in Canada(and even cheaper in the US) you dont exactly have to be rich lol. Especially when one primary would probably last 2 or more weeks of daily usage for an average EDC user.

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Dude, I can get Eneloops for less than $2.50 each, and they'll last for a decade, dude. Why would I want to spend $1.20 or whatever to throw away a CR123 every time I use my light? Dude, that's such a waste of money and bad for the environment. Dude, don't you care about the future?

The bottom line is; CR123A will always allow for a brighter/smaller light then AA. Even with 14500 you still end up with a considerably larger light going with CR123A.

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Dude, you realize that AA and 14500 are the same size, right? Dude, a AA light is pretty small, perfect for EDC.

18650 or 26650 are probably the best options when higher capacity/brightness is needed.

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Dude, that's the first true thing you've said!

Since you already have 18650 batteries, the requisite charger, and the knowledge to use them safely, using a light that also uses them makes complete sense.

I have not burned through two CR123s to compare how long they last against an 18650. Two CR123s have a capacity of 1500 mAh at 6.4 volts, while an 18650 can have a capacity of 3400 mAh at 4.2 volts. Even with the decreased amperage draw due to the increased voltage of two CR123s, I don't expect the run time to come close to that provided by the 18650....and when the 18650 is drained......I can fill it up again.

I have quite a few lights with battery tubes that were designed for two CR123s in series. I only use primary cells in them if the light lives in a vehicle, on a weapon, or in a range bag/weapon case.

For this light type (not employed in the above scenarios), I used to use 500 mAh AW RCR123s, but am changing over to 2500 mAh KeepPower 16650s. Two RCR123s allow the lights to operate with full regulated output followed by darkness. I prefer longer run time, even at slightly less output, with an output reduction as the cell depletes. This allows me to change the cells when it's convenient for me, instead of when the protection circuit of one trips and the light no longer works.

If this thread were intended to discuss single cell CR123 lights, my advice may be different....but it's now so there's no reason to go there.

Naturally, the light's design must support the battery voltage used.

Why don't you two argue about AA vs CR123 via PM instead of in this thread that is not related to AA cells?

:fail:

He clearly needs to do more reading lol. Im not even going to read his whole post after the first couple of points. AA NiMH will never be able to hold as much brightness as long as CR123A. It is more about voltage holding(1.2V vs. 3-4.2V)That is a fact and I could post any number of runtime charts, manufactures specifications, exc. to prove it.

CR123A will hold far more brightness for almost the same amount of time in the same light and always do it in a smaller package.

And, I agree we shouldnt be arguing in this thread but, he was telling the OP complete BS saying basically an Eneloop can beat a CR123A in performance when that is clearly false and the OP never asked or brought up AA`s at all. I just wanted the OP to not take his info as gospel.

Preferences are one thing as far as AA vs. CR123A goes but, CR123A will always take NiMH AA in performance. 14500 is a better comparison but, comes with the same size and weight penalty as NiMH.

Tachead said:

He clearly needs to do more reading lol. Im not even going to read his whole post after the first couple of points. AA NiMH will never be able to hold as much brightness as long as CR123A. It is more about voltage holding(1.2V vs. 3-4.2V)That is a fact and I could post any number of runtime charts, manufactures specifications, exc. to prove it.

CR123A will hold far more brightness for almost the same amount of time in the same light and always do it in a smaller package.

And, I agree we shouldnt be arguing in this thread but, he was telling the OP complete BS saying basically an Eneloop can beat a CR123A in performance when that is clearly false and the OP never asked or brought up AA`s at all. I just wanted the OP to not take his info as gospel.

Preferences are one thing as far as AA vs. CR123A goes but, CR123A will always take NiMH AA in performance. 14500 is a better comparison but, comes with the same size and weight penalty as NiMH.

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WITL's info is NOT BS - an Eneloop can out power a CR123 with the right driver. Wattage (V x Amps) is what matters and an Eneloop XXX is rated for ~6W (1.2V x 5A) while a CR123 is rated for ~4.5W (3V x 1.5A) and you can see this from HKJ's battery reviews.

That said, you are also correct (in general) that MOST CR123 lights will out power MOST AA lights because most manufacturers do not dare drive their AA lights to the full capability of the Eneloop. The reason for this is that your average flashlight user will simply stick cheap Alks into their AA lights and be totally disappointed when the high amp draws kills the battery in nothing flat.

The only manufacturer/flashlight to fully exploit the Eneloop, so far, is Thrunite with the Neutron 2A V2, which WITL mentions. Read Selfbuilt's review of the Neutron and you will see that it can out power MOST of the 1xCR123 field (SB tested) with 1xEneloop.

If you bring Li-ions into the equation, the 14500 cell simply has more capacity than the 16340 cell due to its slightly larger size (voltages obviously the same for any given chemistry).

So you guys are both "right".... call it draw..... and Peace .

reppans said:

WITL's info is NOT BS - an Eneloop can out power a CR123 with the right driver. Wattage (V x Amps) is what matters and an Eneloop XXX is rated for ~6W (1.2V x 5A) while a CR123 is rated for ~4.5W (3V x 1.5A) and you can see this from HKJ's battery reviews.

That said, you are also correct (in general) that MOST CR123 lights will out power MOST AA lights because most manufacturers do not dare drive their AA lights to the full capability of the Eneloop. The reason for this is that your average flashlight user will simply stick cheap Alks into their AA lights and be totally disappointed when the high amp draws kills the battery in nothing flat.

The only manufacturer/flashlight to fully exploit the Eneloop, so far, is Thrunite with the Neutron 2A V2, which WITL mentions. Read Selfbuilt's review of the Neutron and you will see that it can out power MOST of the 1xCR123 field (SB tested) with 1xEneloop.

If you bring Li-ions into the equation, the 14500 cell simply has more capacity than the 16340 cell due to its slightly larger size (voltages obviously the same for any given chemistry).

So you guys are both "right".... call it draw..... and Peace .

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Thanks for the clarification reppans:thumbsup:

Where did you get the 6 watts(5 amps) for an Eneloop Pro might I ask.

And, I would stay away from that Thrunite model. It seems to have a lot of issues.

Tachead said:

Thanks for the clarification reppans:thumbsup:

Where did you get the 6 watts(5 amps) for an Eneloop Pro might I ask.

And, I would stay away from that Thrunite model. It seems to have a lot of issues.

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THIS is HKJs review with the 5amp rating and THIS is Sanyo's datasheet testing 5 and 7.5 amps (HKJ test up to 10 Amps).

I own the Neutron and mine is fine. No excuses for some of the QC issues they've had (like parasitic drain), but I've had some PM conversations with some disappointed folks that turned out to be the batteries, just as I eluded to above. If you want ~400 lumens from this light, it better be a NEW Eneloop, and hopefully an XXX. Folks are putting several year old Eneloops (they develop resistance over time) in it and are expecting the moon. My guess is that accounts for ~ half the dissatisfied posts, eg. "turbo doesn't work."

reppans said:

If you want ~400 lumens from this light, it better be a NEW Eneloop, and hopefully an XXX. Folks are putting several year old Eneloops (they develop resistance over time) in it and are expecting the moon. My guess is that accounts for ~ half the dissatisfied posts, eg. "turbo doesn't work."

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...and high switch resistance because it's dirtier than your local government with even less corrosion control.

Play the high draw game, better be thinking about your current path and your heat path... Just saying, friends.

more_vampires said:

...and high switch resistance because it's dirtier than your local government with even less corrosion control.

Play the high draw game, better be thinking about your current path and your heat path... Just saying, friends.

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Go with rechargeable all the way!

I won't buy a light ever again that won't take either a Li Ion or NiMh, or maybe an IMR. My first "real" flashlight was an old school SureFire 9P, that took 3 123 cells, and that was in around 1998, when those cells were EXPENSIVE! Almost $5 each I think.

It was insane to have to feed that thing. I upgraded the lamp to an LED so I could use Li ion cells, and haven't looked back.

I also just got new lamps for my original SF E2D defender light so I can use rechargeable cells. which are incidentally brighter as well.

Sure, keep a few primaries for a bug out bag or something, but using them on a daily basis? No freaking way!

You will get more run time out of primaries, even using alkaleaks has it's own benefits of longer runtimes (at lower lumen levels) depending on the flashlight, but i'm just as well to stock up on more Eneloops. I'd invest in rechargeables and use primaries as backups. Usually what i do is store the primaries, keeping track of the freshness date, manufacturing date or at the very least when you bought it (in that case i'd probably use the cells within 5 years) and use them before their freshness date ends and go out and rebuy some new ones. At this point for me though, i got more than enough rechargeables so there's really no need for me to get primaries, but i could go to the local store if i ever need some.