Counterfeit products marketed from China should start to tighten up, the near future.

XeRay · Feb 10, 2015

Thread moved to the Cafe from Automotive, Motorcyles Included forum. Topic will be better exposed here for the general CPF population.

Bill

Some good news to anticipate over the next few years.
Because of all the bad press that Alibaba is getting both in China and in the USA regarding it (Alibaba and Taobao) being the largest single channel for counterfeit products coming out of China. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/bu...oods.html?_r=0
Its bad for their image on the NYSE and bad press for China.http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-s...ods-1422425378
The Chinese government is starting now, to crack down more on companies making counterfeit products.
Alibaba (Jack Ma) got rich off of this dirty business. Much of his wealth is built from "dirty Money" the counterfeiting trade.
In fact Yahoo is also "dirty" since they owned a lot of Alibaba a short time ago, but have since sold a lot of the ownership off, and made a killing.
I believe over the next 5 years, you will see it gradually get cleaned up.
So the good news you will see less and less of that junk coming from China.
However, I could anticipate the Chinese business men could just make a new factory in North Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia or some other places.
If there is much money to be made doing it, they will move the production out of China, if the government comes down on them too hard.
I don't know why 60 minutes or one of those type shows, does not do an expose of the problem with eBay and Amazon selling so much counterfeit stuff.
Maybe 50% or more of eBay sales are counterfeit goods.
The American public (average person) has no clue how pervasive counterfeits are on the internet and even your local car repair shop.
Fake collision airbags and many other automotive parts are often used and easy for them to find. This way they make a lot more profit on the parts when they repair your car.
Then their are counterfeit handbags, Gucci, LV, Coach, and all the rest. There are even counterfeit iphones in China.

mcnair55 · Feb 10, 2015

Do not believe any of it period,when huge profits are to be made as one factory is shut another opens.Why are you surprised at your last comment?

When I am on my hols first place I head to is the lucky lucky men to snag a bargain.

Alaric Darconville · Feb 10, 2015

mcnair55 said:
When I am on my hols first place I head to is the lucky lucky men to snag a bargain.

Is it a bargain if it's counterfeit?

-Virgil- · Feb 10, 2015

I'd like to hope you're right, XeRay, but I'll be surprised if the problem gets any better; I think it's probably going to keep getting worse. As you say, maybe the counterfeit product won't come (directly) from China, but I doubt this supposed "crackdown" by the Chinese Government will be anything more than a brief public relations ploy. There are entire, whole towns in China dedicated to counterfeiting, look here and here. Not too long ago I was shown a chain of correspondence between a USA company and a Chinese manufacturer they were considering using. The relevant part of the discussion, coming from the China side, was to the effect of "Don't worry about safety approvals; we have all the artwork and the correct type fonts, we can apply any and all safety approval markings you may want, including holographic. Country of origin, no problem, the product can say Made In wherever you want."

BillSWPA · Feb 10, 2015

Re: China: I will believe it when I see it.

Re: EBay: they were sued by Tiffany a few years ago, and won. In explaining its finding of no wrongdoing, the court included a lengthy discussion of the many steps EBay takes to prevent the sale of counterfeit goods.

XeRay · Feb 10, 2015

BillSWPA said:
Re: China: I will believe it when I see it.

Re: EBay: they were sued by Tiffany a few years ago, and won. In explaining its finding of no wrongdoing, the court included a lengthy discussion of the many steps EBay takes to prevent the sale of counterfeit goods.

I believe Tiffany won the court case, not eBay.
The steps eBay takes are a joke, its all smoke. They do basically nothing, they only care to make money.
Even when you can prove its fake eBay does nothing, except make the seller give the money back, but not stop the seller from continuing.

MichaelW · Feb 11, 2015

I think all of this would disappear, if the US had free trade tariffs.
100% on Chinese 'goods' would be sufficient, don't you think?

XeRay · Feb 11, 2015

MichaelW said:
I think all of this would disappear, if the US had free trade tariffs.
100% on Chinese 'goods' would be sufficient, don't you think?

If you think that's a real solution, you're "out to lunch". That's just a reactionary statement on your part.
At this point we (the world) needs China as much as it needs us, and there is NO going back.

Alaric Darconville · Feb 11, 2015

MichaelW said:
I think all of this would disappear, if the US had free trade tariffs.
100% on Chinese 'goods' would be sufficient, don't you think?

With a 200% tariff, the goods could probably still be produced cheaply enough such that there'd still be immense profit. The tariff would only penalize legitimate manufacturers whose margins are much slimmer due to things like actual regulatory compliance, environmental protection, worker wages and safety, quality control...

Alaric Darconville · Feb 11, 2015

XeRay said:
I believe Tiffany won the court case, not eBay.

Beliefs can very often contradict facts!

The facts of the case of Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. 600 F.3d 93 (2nd Cir. 2010) show plainly that eBay Inc won the suit that Tiffany brought against them, both on the initial ruling and upon Tiffany's appeal.

5S8Zh5 · Feb 11, 2015

shoulda woulda coulda .....

Obijuan Kenobe · Feb 11, 2015

Intellectual property means different things in these two cultures...and more importantly, in these two legal systems.

The Chinese Gov't says what it thinks the USA wants to hear, while going about doing whatever it was already planning to do. And they should.

There are plenty of US businesses that take advantage of this situation. Counterfeit goods are really just a red herring to make you think something is being done. Nothing will be done that would endanger the working profit margins of these big US corporations.

US corporations like Apple, Wal-mart, etc...will continue to make things over there. They will never bring their businesses back to the USA. And those same factories will continue to make some extra to sell on the side. And they will continue to take what they learn from making those products to make others/better ones. It is a necessary side effect of the ridiculously cheap labor they take advantage of over there.

It happens with Align model helicopters. It happens with RC transmitters. It happens with phones. It happens with anything and everything that is made over there by Chinese companies. By definition, they are actually clones. They are made in the same factory by the same machines operated by the same workers. They are counterfeit only in the sense they are not being sold by the company that originally ordered them, or that they have the logo of said company, which is not really counterfeit per se. They actually are the same thing in many cases.

We don't need China, except insofar as they hold so much of our national debt. In that respect, they could threaten to sink the dollar if we imposed tariffs on their imports. All they would need to do is stop trading in dollars...and help to push the rest of Asia to shift to something else (like the euro) and the US economy is gone.

obi

XeRay · Feb 11, 2015

Obijuan Kenobe said:
It happens with phones. It happens with anything and everything that is made over there by Chinese companies. By definition, they are actually clones. They are made in the same factory by the same machines operated by the same workers. They are counterfeit only in the sense they are not being sold by the company that originally ordered them, or that they have the logo of said company, which is not really counterfeit per se. They actually are the same thing in many cases.

In reality, that's only a moderate percentage of the total of counterfeited goods, and in most cases only the cheaper products. Counterfeit iphones are absolutely not made with the same tooling or in the same factory.
Some of what you say occurs but its not the majority scenario.

FroggyTaco · Feb 11, 2015

Obijuan Kenobe said:
Intellectual property means different things in these two cultures...and more importantly, in these two legal systems.

The Chinese Gov't says what it thinks the USA wants to hear, while going about doing whatever it was already planning to do. And they should.

There are plenty of US businesses that take advantage of this situation. Counterfeit goods are really just a red herring to make you think something is being done. Nothing will be done that would endanger the working profit margins of these big US corporations.

US corporations like Apple, Wal-mart, etc...will continue to make things over there. They will never bring their businesses back to the USA. And those same factories will continue to make some extra to sell on the side. And they will continue to take what they learn from making those products to make others/better ones. It is a necessary side effect of the ridiculously cheap labor they take advantage of over there.

It happens with Align model helicopters. It happens with RC transmitters. It happens with phones. It happens with anything and everything that is made over there by Chinese companies. By definition, they are actually clones. They are made in the same factory by the same machines operated by the same workers. They are counterfeit only in the sense they are not being sold by the company that originally ordered them, or that they have the logo of said company, which is not really counterfeit per se. They actually are the same thing in many cases.

We don't need China, except insofar as they hold so much of our national debt. In that respect, they could threaten to sink the dollar if we imposed tariffs on their imports. All they would need to do is stop trading in dollars...and help to push the rest of Asia to shift to something else (like the euro) and the US economy is gone.

obi

Never say never: http://www.statesman.com/news/business/apple-confirms-mac-pro-production-has-started-in-a/ncN3M/

Although I do agree that this is the exception rather than the rule.

XeRay · Feb 11, 2015

Alaric Darconville said:
Beliefs can very often contradict facts!

The facts of the case of Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. 600 F.3d 93 (2nd Cir. 2010) show plainly that eBay Inc won the suit that Tiffany brought against them, both on the initial ruling and upon Tiffany's appeal.

I was thinking of the wrong case LV won ($63 million) against ebay in France http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121483602906315901

mcnair55 · Feb 11, 2015

Alaric Darconville said:
Is it a bargain if it's counterfeit?

9 times out of 10 yes,had some very nice watches over the years for not a lot of money either.

tandem · Feb 11, 2015

I'm less concerned about counterfeit products than I am about poorly made electronic products that are not safe to use as directed. Sometimes these have forged or counterfeit UL / CSA / FCC / IC / RoHS / CE / etc certification stamps. We've certainly seen enough badly produced chargers and rechargeable cells over the years. Consider the same thing happens beyond our narrow scope of interest here.

XeRay · Feb 11, 2015

mcnair55 said:
9 times out of 10 yes,had some very nice watches over the years for not a lot of money either.

Buying a watch that performs well at a low price is not the issue or problem. Buying something that claims to be something its not, is quite another thing. That's known as fraud.

Alaric Darconville · Feb 11, 2015

mcnair55 said:
9 times out of 10 yes,had some very nice watches over the years for not a lot of money either.

If the product is of high quality, it should be salable on its own merits, without misappropriating a company's names and trademarks.

XeRay said:
Buying a watch that performs well at a low price is not the issue or problem. Buying something that claims to be something its not, is quite another thing.

Yep.

I'd rather wear a genuine Timex than a fake Rolex. Will the fake Rolex outperform the Timex? Possibly, depending on who made the movement and case. Or it could fall apart in minutes. The quality isn't the the issue-- the fake Rolex is a fraud. Where's the real "status" in a status symbol that people are so desperate to wear that they'll knowingly wear a fake? Might as well pour your Best Choice Cola into a Coca-Cola bottle to impress people.

Alaric Darconville · Feb 11, 2015

tandem said:
We've certainly seen enough badly produced chargers and rechargeable cells over the years. Consider the same thing happens beyond our narrow scope of interest here.

I just watched one of the "UltraFire 18650" vids from your signature. Wow, that's some brazen counterfeiting there. But maybe their fake Rolex watches are better :snicker:

Counterfeit products marketed from China should start to tighten up, the near future.

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashaholic

Enlightened

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Enlightened

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Similar threads