Copper and Brass are antimicrobial, do you mind the smell?

My body chemistry produces a strong odor when I handle copper, so I tend to avoid it.


Although I dislike the smell, I recently learned Copper kills pathogens, as does Brass, though more slowly, due to the lower copper content.

Maratac offers both Copper and Brass versions. I would be curious whether Brass makes hands smell less than Copper. If you get a chance to test the odor qualities of your Copper Maratac, I would be curious to know your impressions. If you also have handled the Brass version I would welcome your smell comparison.


I also checked whether Stainless and Titanium are anti bacterial, and learned that they are not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_copper
"Unlike copper alloys, stainless steel (S30400) does not exhibit any degree of bactericidal properties….E. coli O157:H7 is almost completely killed on copper alloy C10200 after just 90 minutes at 20 °C; whereas a substantial number of pathogens remain on stainless steel S30400.[21]"
"Commonly touched items, such as bed rails, over-the-bed tray tables, chair arms, nurse's call buttons, IV poles, etc. were retrofitted with antimicrobial copper alloys in certain patient rooms (i.e., the "coppered" rooms) in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU). Early results disclosed in 2011 indicate that the coppered rooms demonstrated a 97% reduction in surface pathogens versus the non-coppered rooms"
I also looked up Aluminum, it is not antibacterial, and can be toxic, though I believe that anodizing blocks that effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Health_concerns
"Because aluminium competes with calcium for absorption, increased amounts of dietary aluminium may contribute to the reduced skeletal mineralization (osteopenia) observed in preterm infants and infants with growth retardation. In very high doses, aluminium is associated with altered function of the blood–brain barrier.[78] A small percentage of people are allergic to aluminium and experience contact dermatitis, digestive disorders, vomiting or other symptoms upon contact or ingestion of products containing aluminium, such as antiperspirants and antacids. "

jon, it isn't only you; everyone I work with -enjoys- the same aroma when cleaning/sweating/brazing copper tube and for more than a few years I thought that it was the flux that created the smell, as for brass I can make up joints all day with not the slightest aroma, and I never realized this until your post.....
By the way, copper is the only material I would ever use for my own potable water system precisely for this materials properties AND did you know that if you place a few pennies in a glad bag 1/2 full of water you have a very effective bug countermeasure? depending on who one listens to it works either by freaking out the bugs when they look at it or there is some sort of outgassing of copper, either way people claim it works.

Wouldn't leaving your flashlight in the sun for a moment be more anti microbial than the material it's made of?

So, are you buying a copper flashlight because of its antibacterial properties?


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This anti-microbial action is known as the oligodynamic effect. Silver's oligodynamic effect is even more pronounced than copper-- thus, silverware sure was a great idea, and curiously, in a silver flask, water can stay potable indefinitely. Aluminum also shares this anti-microbial property. Considering flashlights are tools and tools get dirty, dirt has microbes, microbes can make you sick, so all things being equal, I can't imagine why anyone would not want a flashlight with anti-microbial properties, but if they're out there, they can use Titanium or Steel.

tom- said:

jon, it isn't only you; everyone I work with -enjoys- the same aroma when cleaning/sweating/brazing copper tube and for more than a few years I thought that it was the flux that created the smell, as for brass I can make up joints all day with not the slightest aroma, and I never realized this until your post.....

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Exactly the kind of info I was curious to learn, thank you!
Both Copper and Brass share the oligodynamic properties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect
"Many infections can be spread by doorknobs. Brass doorknobs disinfect themselves in about eight hours, while stainless steel and aluminium knobs never do."

StarHalo said:

Wouldn't leaving your flashlight in the sun for a moment be more anti microbial than the material it's made of?

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I don't know, do you have a link to some info about that? Or have you ever noticed how your hands smell after putting them on a copper clad counter or table? I was quite shocked when I tried it.

Berneck1 said:

So, are you buying a copper flashlight because of its antibacterial properties?

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sounds like a good enough reason to me, don't you think
I might need one of each, to do my own test.. copper and brass both.. LOL
I would actually like one in Sterling Silver too.


Do you own a copper flashlight, or mind the smell of copper?

night.hoodie said:

This anti-microbial action is known as the oligodynamic effect. Silver's oligodynamic effect is even more pronounced than copper-- thus, silverware sure was a great idea, and curiously, in a silver flask, water can stay potable indefinitely. Aluminum also shares this anti-microbial property. Considering flashlights are tools and tools get dirty, dirt has microbes, microbes can make you sick, so all things being equal, I can't imagine why anyone would not want a flashlight with anti-microbial properties, but if they're out there, they can use Titanium or Steel.

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Hmm I recall reading that silver actually isn't as effective as copper. Silver actually needs certain temperature requirements to meet the same efficiency as copper at any temperature.

I have also read that if hospitals used copper in place of the typical stainless steel surfaces, they could reduce the transmissions of many of the microbes that cause a staggering amount of deaths by nearly 60%.




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It's funny, I guess I could understand someone wanting antimicrobial properties if they were specifically in an environment that may warrant it, like a hospital.

At the risk of starting an argument, I feel limiting your purchase to a specific material in a flashlight for these properties is a bit of overkill. There are many things we handle day in and day out that should concern us more, like handling money for example. Money is probably by far the nastiest thing we handle every day, and most of us never think twice about it.

It's very interesting how overly concerned we have all become with germs that we are actually putting ourselves more at risk. Studies are showing that the over use of antibacterial soap and lotions to the use of antibiotics for every little thing is actually reducing our body's ability to fight off many of these germs. It's also creating stronger "super-germs". Pretty ironic.

And if you really want to get political in a way, it's really just drug and household product companies who have created this fear in us, because fear is the best way to make a ton of money.

This doesn't serve to offend anyone, or discount their thoughts. Just my opinion.



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Berneck1 said:

At the risk of starting an argument, I feel limiting your purchase to a specific material in a flashlight for these properties is a bit of overkill. …

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Berneck1 said:

the use of antibiotics … creating stronger "super-germs".

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You're assuming the opposite of my intention. Im trying to talk myself into a Maratac Copper, even though it is heavier than my Titanium Thrunite, and even though the Maratac has PWM. The antibacterial effect is a reason to ADD to my collection , not LIMIT it.

copper is not an antibiotic, it does not build immunity in germs, it kills them

not sure what the value of the copper flashlight germicidal properties are, but I think it is very interesting

by that I mean, killing germs on doorknobs in hospitals, helps people who touch them. So, lending you my copper flashlight, which I have no plans to do anyway, might be less contagious than if I hand you my Titanium one, not that Im contagious or anything

it just an interesting feature of Copper, thats all

Although, I do admit Im wondering if I could use a copper or silver coin, or flashlight, to disinfect a cut .. Maybe put it under the bandaid for a few hours, LOL

and btw, putting silver and or copper coins in a water bottle, keeps bacteria down. The pioneers used to put coins in their water barrels to control algae too. Ive been putting silver and copper coins in my water bottle for a while, as you can see, it has not had a very bad effect on my intelligence, or, has it?;-)

Agreed, it is very interesting. It's just not something I would consider. Watch my flashlight kill me now after saying that...lolol

I've read a lot about these things because I have dealt with a lot of health issues over the past 10 years or so. You don't quite appreciate your health when you're ok. For me, I am far more concerned with chemicals, "fake foods", and other environmental concerns that are causing a lot of sickness and chronic issues that cannot be explained.

I personally think that the odor given off by the copper exponentially outweighs any added benefit you might receive in antimicrobial properties. Another thing to consider is make sure the light is raw copper. Any coating to make it shiny, etc could significantly reduce its antimicrobial abilities.


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Ok, so....Why buy a copper flashlight is the question, I guess? Along with, should I like the fact copper has a odor and can be antimicrobial? Perplexing post to me.

So, anyway................I like the smell of copper. Most importantly, to me, I buy it because I like the patina. You basically are buying a flashlight that you can make different colors. If you like it to shine, bust out the ketchup, if you like that vintage look, bust out the salt & vinegar chips.

Value? I think copper lights have a higher resale value. Some folks like me collect copper objects.
Antimicrobial? Folks in the medical field often use copper pens for this reason. So a copper flashlight could be a good idea for that purpose. Basically, if you are mysophobic, then copper is for you!

I have one more question?

What did the copper flashlight say to the germs??


Cu later.

Remember that copper is also a necessary nutrient:laughing:

Str8stroke said:

Why buy a copper flashlight is the question,................I like the smell of copper. ...
Cu later.

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Lol I C what U did there
Please let me be more clear, I dont want you perplexed
Should I buy a CU Maratac or is the smell a problem?
you answered that, you like the smell.. sounds good

Have you also handled a Brass Maratac, and does the material also smell good to you, or not much of a smell factor? Do you also like Brass, or is Copper the real deal and Brass a wanna be?
Im really just talking myself into a CU , thanks for the encouragement.

Maybe I can learn to Love the smell of CU in the morning, LOL

You're not smelling copper. You're smelling the oils in your skin that react with the copper. You're smelling your own body odor, not the copper. If it smells good to you... well, I hope you live alone!

I have the Copper & Brass Betas. I have only the Copper Maratac lights. But I like them all. Funny thing is I can smell them both and tell you which is which. I love the look of brass, but prefer copper. Due to the many looks it can have.
Fu
Here is a link to a copper thread for some more pics. C what U think.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?338453-Show-off-your-copper

The op categorically/unequivocally is not smelling his own body odor, the aroma is caused by the copper plain and simple-but for the metal there would not be an olfactory sensation-or rather not one as being posted about.

tom- said:

The op categorically/unequivocally is not smelling his own body odor, the aroma is caused by the copper plain and simple-but for the metal there would not be an olfactory sensation-or rather not one as being posted about.

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That is incorrect. As usual, the reality is more complicated. Removing either variable would change the result. Copper by itself would not produce a strong odor either...it is an interaction between two objects, and you can't say the result is based entirely on one or the other.

doc, I understand 'body odor' to be bacteriological what the op is experiencing is the reaction between normally occurring secretions from the hand which I believe include but are not limited to; salts, water and oils These elements/chemicals/compounds combine with copper and a very acidic (be it water soluble or not) but required product called flux to produce a very distinct aroma-which never varies .

Additionally, if it were simply 'body odor' logic, to me, would dictate that the aroma would have to vary from person to person as individuals are just that. The body chemistry from those overweight should differ from those not overweight, the secretions from medicated should be different from those who are not medicated, add in the variables which would have to be present by: diet (I have been a vegetarian for over 40 years) , workplace/environmental exposures, stress and even ethnicity and the ability to get a constant odor, an absolutely constant odor, would seem to be impossible-if the position is that secretions are the catalyst or cause.

Remove the copper and one removes the odor, relative to the discussion at hand.

I neglected to add that the complete antimicrobial qualities of copper tube, whether made from virgin ore or combined with recycled materials, even further argues against a bacterial or body odor cause for any smell. I have taken apart potable systems well over fifty years old-from private untreated supplies and municipal/central systems involving filtering and the addition of chlorine/fluorides and the inside of the tube is, visually, as clean as new.

A mutant discussion of cause/effect of the severely oxidized exterior of old copper tube and odor might be presented but this similarly would be flawed as to repair such tube would require such thorough cleaning or rather should require such thorough cleaning that the old tube would be essentially as clean as new.
And remember the act of proper prepping tube invariably results in fine antimicrobial copper particles getting in contact with ones hands even further complicating the body odor cause for me.

No doc in my opinion remove the copper and the aroma under discussion is also removed-100% of the time.

tom- said:

No doc in my opinion remove the copper and the aroma under discussion is also removed-100% of the time.

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Yes, but the converse is just as true. Don't touch the copper, and it won't give off a strong odor either. The process is an interaction...just because removing one variable changes the result, doesn't mean that the other variable is not important too. Removing EITHER variable changes the result...therefore it is wrong to say one or the other is the sole cause. Put another way, neither the copper nor the hand causes the aroma...it takes both! This is not a complicated concept.

I won't argue any further here...feel free to PM me, but I'm not willing to derail the thread any more than we already have.