Minimalistic AA lights for in-pocket EDC

sac02

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May 26, 2010
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Well I'm sad to say that my loyal 4sevens Mini AA XP-G died last night after 5 years of hard labor. :(
I ran it on 14500's, and I don't have a rotation of pocket-EDC's, so that light was in my pocket every single day (and used almost all of them) for nearly 2000 days – pretty commendable, IMO.

That said, should I just replace it immediately with its successor, the Mini MA XP-G2 ? Or should I explore other options?

My main criteria:


  • Minimal size / design for in-pocket carry
  • Reputation for reliability
  • 1xAA, but able to handle 14500 (even if not officially supported; I'm responsible with the heat due to Li-Ion)
  • Probably prefer twisty UI, to avoid accidental operation in my pocket.

So far the other option I've seen is the Eagletac D25A Mini.
Both the 4sevens Mini MA and the Eagletac D25A Mini are XP-G2 lights.
The D25A Clicky is available in an XM-L2 emitter (which I like) but I'm not sure about the tail clicky, which also makes the light almost a half-inch longer in my pocket.

Are there any other lights in this format that I should consider?

Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
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snowlover91

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Not the newest and greatest but a very compact AA light I would recommend since I EDC it is the Nitecore D11.2. It can still be found for about $50 in a few places and auction sites, has both twisty action (and for lockout also) as well as rear clicky and momentary on action. Great UI with quick shortcuts to high/moonlight and supports both 14500 and AA format. Haven't had any problems with mine and still have the original D10 which I used as my EDC for 6 years before I broke the glass in the front, light still works fine but decided to retire it :)
 

reppans

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Have you tried bypassing the tube/spring with a paperclip? Your also only halfway through your warranty. If you were "responsible" with the 14500/heat mgt, and didn't fry it, then they might cover you (their service is excellent).
 

cland72

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If you were very happy with the FourSevens MiniAA, I would buy another and call it good.
 

sac02

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Have you tried bypassing the tube/spring with a paperclip? Your also only halfway through your warranty. If you were "responsible" with the 14500/heat mgt, and didn't fry it, then they might cover you (their service is excellent).

Dang, warranty didn't even occur to me. Duh. I will definitely contact them, thanks for the reminder. :oops:

Here is what happened/symptoms:
  • Light working normally
  • remove battery for charging
  • insert new battery in tube
  • screw head down onto tube
  • encounter SLIGHTLY MORE resistance than normal for about 10 degrees of turn near the end of head installation, then NORMAL resistance - thought I had "run over" a piece of grit in the threads, or the O-ring stuck for a moment and would need lube next time I opened it up. No clue if this is coincidence, or related to symptoms (below).
  • light doesn't turn on
  • unscrew and reinstall head - still not working
  • check battery voltage
  • try a few different batts
  • try bypassing body/spring (as you mentioned)
  • still not working
  • happen to notice a noise when I pick up the head - huh?
  • shake head lightly - hear something rattling, like there's a grain of rice trapped in there.
  • uh-oh.
  • Pretty sure something is wrong inside the head - maybe some solder joint failed and I have a tiny component loose in there?

I will contact 4sevens and be honest about the fact I used 14500's in it. Maybe they'll want to see the light before making a decision? If they feel that the Li-Ion might have contributed to the failure, I'll accept that. I was responsible with the 14500's, but I knew I was using the light with batteries that weren't officially supported.
 
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reppans

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Sounds like you cracked the circuit board with a 14500 that was too long - first time that cell was used in the light? Compare it to a NiMh or Alkaline cell. You should be able to push the cell against the spring in the tube so that the button top is easily below the tube edge.

If so, I think your post is about the 4th out of the last ~6 "AA/14500" failure threads that I've followed where the owner broke the back of circuit board screwing down a 14500 that was too long. The battery manufacturers keep trying to cram more mah capacity into these 14500 cells and it has to go somewhere.

You sound like a stand-up guy (being honest to 47s about the 14500), good on you. 47s really shouldn't warranty this light, if that was the problem, but my gut tells me that they'll take of you if you're upfront and honest to them. Good luck.
 
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chuckhov

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Guys,

I have an Olight non-rechargeable S-15 that came with an Olight 14500 that I felt was just too long for the light.

I ordered a 'XTAR 14500 - 800mAh - Protected Button Top' from MTN Electronics and it is the same size as a Eneloop! - Only 50.5mm long.

Hope this helps someone,
-Chuck
 

sac02

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Sounds like you cracked the circuit board with a 14500 that was too long - first time that cell was used in the light? ...

I guess it is possible the PCB cracked, would I be able to see that from the back of the head? Because I can see a circuit board and it's not cracked.

No, the batteries are not new, or even high capacity. They are the black w/ red and yellow flames Trustfire "true mAh" batteries from DX. They are the same four batteries that I have been using for 3 or 4 years. (not "same type", but actual same cells)
 
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reppans

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I guess it is possible the PCB cracked, would I be able to see that from the back of the head? Because I can see a circuit board and it's not cracked.

No, the batteries are not new, or even high capacity. They are the black w/ red and yellow flames Trustfire "true mAh" batteries from DX. They are the same four batteries that I have been using for 3 or 4 years. (not "same type", but actual same cells)

Could have flexed the circuit board enough to have broken something on the other side (loose piece). How do those old cells lengths look vs Alks/NiMh? Sometimes Li-ions swell with age - seen plenty from laptops. Could there have been some debris in the spring preventing it from compressing all the way? Just speculating based your explanation of resistance while tightening the head down. Otherwise I'm stumped, anyways, give 47s a ring, see if they'll warranty the light out of good will.
 

regulator

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Jul 22, 2006
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I had the mini but lost it. I have the Eagletac D25a and like it very much. I believe the mini used PWM for regulation and the Eagletac uses current control which is said to be a bit more efficient - for what it matters.

Both are nice and compact.
 

sac02

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FYI datapoint:

Trustfire protected 14500 "true 900 mAh" (black w/ red and yellow flames): 50.68mm
Sanyo Eneloop 1900 mAh HR-3UTGA (white): 50.22mm

50.68 – 50.22 = 0.44mm difference (i.e. 14500 is about a half millimeter longer)

My measurements of the light are slightly less accurate (probably +/-0.3 mm tolerance on my measurements?), but I'm measuring the battery compartment as 54.1mm with the spring compressed.

54.1 - 50.68 = 3.4mm remaining "gap" (filled by spring pressure) with 14500 installed.

The spring will exert more force when compressed further (0.44*K) using the 14500. But the length of the 14500 is certainly not excessive compared to an Eneloop.

So I would venture to say that battery length isn't the primary contributing factor.
 
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zipplet

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Rattling sounds like a part broke off the PCB. If the light has been dropped/knocked a lot, the main inductor may have sheared off the board. This is a common failure mode for lights that are dropped and have no visible damage.

Sad to say, this is quite likely for yours as it has been used heavily in work conditions for 5 years. It lasted a long time and put up a decent fight though! I would also say that 4sevens might cover it under warranty. Does it still look like it is in good condition?
 

reppans

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54.1 - 50.68 = 3.4mm remaining "gap" (filled by spring pressure) with 14500 installed.

So I would venture to say that battery length isn't the primary contributing factor.

Yeah, just checked mine and that tube is deep - it would have be a crazy long cell to cause a problem. However your description of encountering screw-down resistance near the end of travel usually means the excess pressure was applied against the PCB, and of course the head rattling after that.

Could there have been a width issue (ie, do the cells freely drop-in and spin), a burr from the metal tube or tear in the plastic battery insulation, perhaps preventing the cell from bottoming in the tube?

Anyways, it now sounding more like a normal warranty repair to me now - they have the light in stock, RMA it and you probably get a brand new one in a week.
 

holygeez03

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sac02... make sure to let us know what you find out from FourSevens... It would be awesome if they fixed the light under warranty, or at least for a minimal charge.
 

sac02

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Rattling sounds like a part broke off the PCB. If the light has been dropped/knocked a lot, the main inductor may have sheared off the board. This is a common failure mode for lights that are dropped and have no visible damage.

Sad to say, this is quite likely for yours as it has been used heavily in work conditions for 5 years. It lasted a long time and put up a decent fight though! I would also say that 4sevens might cover it under warranty. Does it still look like it is in good condition?

Umm, depends on your definition of "good", haha...
If you were one of the people that buy lights as collector pieces, then definitely not.
But for a tool that I've used daily for 5 years, I would say yes.
It hasn't been abused, but yes that does include being dropped a few times.

rAGh8J0.jpg


Yeah, just checked mine and that tube is deep - it would have be a crazy long cell to cause a problem. However your description of encountering screw-down resistance near the end of travel usually means the excess pressure was applied against the PCB, and of course the head rattling after that.

Could there have been a width issue (ie, do the cells freely drop-in and spin), a burr from the metal tube or tear in the plastic battery insulation, perhaps preventing the cell from bottoming in the tube?

Anyways, it now sounding more like a normal warranty repair to me now - they have the light in stock, RMA it and you probably get a brand new one in a week.

I looked and tried to find any obstruction or contamination - can't find anything abnormal with the battery or light (other than the rattle and non-function).

sac02... make sure to let us know what you find out from FourSevens... It would be awesome if they fixed the light under warranty, or at least for a minimal charge.

I contacted 4sevens yesterday via email and they gave me an RMA# and an address to ship to. I plan to ship it this evening. 4sevens didn't say one way or the other if they planned to warranty the light. I figured they'd do a brief inspection and then decide. I will follow up and let you all know the conclusion. 4sevens customer service has been quick and polite, so another +1 for that (in addition to building a great light).
 
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