Upgrade or not

Greetings all. I have the Jetbeam Jet III M 3M (450lm)
which I like very well. I mostly like the robust build. It
spends time on and off my AR. Mostly off though.

Is it to late in the game to upgrade to the latest
model, the 3M Pro, which boast 1100lm? Or
do you think it will be replaced soon?

I also read the 3M Pro will fit 18350's for more
run time over the 16340's. True?

Thanks for you time. -keith

18350 will have better runtimes than 16340. but why use either of those if 18650 will be far superior.

your 450 lumen model probably uses an xp-g led. driven at around 1.5 amps. the xp-g emitter should give you a tighter beam pattern for better throw.
the 1100 lumen model is probably using a XM-L or XM-L driven at around 3 amps. which means you will probably get less runtime because its consuming twice the amount of energy. the XM-L led is also larger, and in the same sized reflector will have a less focused beam.

i would say an upgrade is not necessary. i actually would prefer the 450 lumen model for the tighter beam pattern and longer runtime.

Gotcha. But the description on the newer 3M Pro says higher lumen with 2*16340
over the 1*18650. Just like my JB WL-S2. I would also hope that advancing technology
would allow gains in efficiency alongside increased lumen. Suppose you cant have both.
A big thanks to your input. -keith

skyfire said:

18350 will have better runtimes than 16340. but why use either of those if 18650 will be far superior.

your 450 lumen model probably uses an xp-g led. driven at around 1.5 amps. the xp-g emitter should give you a tighter beam pattern for better throw.
the 1100 lumen model is probably using a XM-L or XM-L driven at around 3 amps. which means you will probably get less runtime because its consuming twice the amount of energy. the XM-L led is also larger, and in the same sized reflector will have a less focused beam.

i would say an upgrade is not necessary. i actually would prefer the 450 lumen model for the tighter beam pattern and longer runtime.

Click to expand...

Well, just because its a larger LED doesn't mean it has less throw, because lux is still lumens per square meter, and, if you have over twice as many lumens, unless the beam is more than twice as wide, the throw would be the same or better.

It depends how you use the light. Situationally, a floodier beam tells you more about what's going on out there....the tight beam shows you a guy with his hands up, the floody beam shows you the guy with his hands up and the three guys in the bushes taking aim to his sides, etc....plus makes it hard for ALL of them to see, because your light's in their eyes.

In the old days, when the lights were struggling to generate "5 eye searing lumens" all 5 had to be concentrated into a teeny beam to get enough lux on target. Same when upped it to "60 eye searing lumens", "100 eye searing lumens" and so forth. (Lumens are always "eye searing" it seams?)

Now that LED can give better run time and strong fat beams, they don't NEED to be concentrated to be "eye searing" any more, as floody beams now have more throw than the old tight beams could ever have wished for.


On the other hand, if your current light works for you, you could just keep it.

If you want a dedicated weapon light, check out Vinh's X300 Vn Ultra:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...OLD-Surefire-X300vn-Ultra-1st-V54-Weaponlight

(A Surefire X300, modified to kick ***)


People who don't even HAVE a weapon are buying weapons just to get the light.

Nice post TEEJ. Informative. Thanks.

TEEJ said:

Well, just because its a larger LED doesn't mean it has less throw, because lux is still lumens per square meter, and, if you have over twice as many lumens, unless the beam is more than twice as wide, the throw would be the same or better.

It depends how you use the light. Situationally, a floodier beam tells you more about what's going on out there....the tight beam shows you a guy with his hands up, the floody beam shows you the guy with his hands up and the three guys in the bushes taking aim to his sides, etc....plus makes it hard for ALL of them to see, because your light's in their eyes.

In the old days, when the lights were struggling to generate "5 eye searing lumens" all 5 had to be concentrated into a teeny beam to get enough lux on target. Same when upped it to "60 eye searing lumens", "100 eye searing lumens" and so forth. (Lumens are always "eye searing" it seams?)

Now that LED can give better run time and strong fat beams, they don't NEED to be concentrated to be "eye searing" any more, as floody beams now have more throw than the old tight beams could ever have wished for.


On the other hand, if your current light works for you, you could just keep it.

If you want a dedicated weapon light, check out Vinh's X300 Vn Ultra:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...OLD-Surefire-X300vn-Ultra-1st-V54-Weaponlight

(A Surefire X300, modified to kick ***)


People who don't even HAVE a weapon are buying weapons just to get the light.

Click to expand...

what cant i see with 450 lumens as opposed to 1100 lumens? the difference really isnt that great in real life use.

a larger led, in the same sized reflector, driven at the same amperage will have less throw. lets not forget the 1100 lumen version is drawing about twice the amps, greatly affecting run times. not to mention the heat its generating, which will also decrease its brightness and efficiency.

skyfire said:

what cant i see with 450 lumens as opposed to 1100 lumens? the difference really isnt that great in real life use.

a larger led, in the same sized reflector, driven at the same amperage will have less throw. lets not forget the 1100 lumen version is drawing about twice the amps, greatly affecting run times. not to mention the heat its generating, which will also decrease its brightness and efficiency.

Click to expand...

So, your theory is that 450 lumens is the same as 1,100 lumens?

It CAN be great in real life use, depending upon what your real life is like.



For example, depending upon the beam profile, that 1,100 lumens is potentially able to light up exactly the same as your 450 L lumens, plus, an additional area the size of your 450 lumens (You have TWO 450 L flashlights, at 900 L), PLUS another 200 lumen flashlight.



So, lets say you have the 450 L concentrated to a tight beam, so at 50', you see a perp with his hands up...and, are glaring his eyes so he doesn't move, etc.

With the same exact intensity on that perp, with the extra 650 lumens, you could have the corona lighting up his three freinds in the bushes too, etc...


Lets say you're in a warehouse, and you have a 450 L light and a 1,100 L light, and they have the same beam pattern...so, down the row of racks, with the 450 L light, you see stuff with enough lux to make out a guy hiding at ~ 30 meters. With the same pattern, you'd be able to see the same hider from ~ 50 meters, ~ another 150' foot further away.

So, with one light, you'd just make out someone crouched in a shadow, and the weaker light would miss them because the shadows would still be too dark to see into, etc.

Or, a 40 watt incan light bulb is about 400 - 500 lumens.

You can see more with a 100 watt bulb than a 40 watt bulb....etc.




IE: With more light, you see more.



As for run time, that's a different ball of wax...its like getting a muscle car and complaining about the mpg...sure, you floor it, and your mpg sucks.



Many of these lights have low or medium levels though, and, if 100 L, or 500 L, etc, are 'enough", sure, why kill your night vision for nothing.

Another TEEJ +1 post.

i never said 450 lm is the same as 1100. what i said was in real life use, its not a big difference.

im not going to get into your "what if" scenarios. especially if there may or may not be somebody hiding in the bushes. :duh2:

Great discussion guys. Thanks!

3M Pro is an XP-L light. I run 2x16340 in mine for max output. Beam is phenomenal. 18650 will get you 200 lumens less.

skyfire said:

i never said 450 lm is the same as 1100. what i said was in real life use, its not a big difference.

im not going to get into your "what if" scenarios. especially if there may or may not be somebody hiding in the bushes. :duh2:

Click to expand...

No in fact you said "what cant i see with 450 lumens as opposed to 1100 lumens? the difference really isnt that great in real life use." TEEJ was simply making it clear that some people really do have to see into dark corners in their daily life. Maybe you don't. I have a friend who thought that my 3M which is the XM-L version (The XP-G version was rated at 350 lumens) was more light than he would ever need. The difference is that you see farther with 1100 lumens than you would with 450 lumens. Sometimes that matters outside of law enforcement/military encounters.

I believe I read somewhere that the 3M Pro used PWM which is something I try to avoid when I can. Not sure about the new 3M with XM-L2.

Also...really hate how the forums seem to boot your login after just a few minutes of typing your reply out. Why even have the "Quick Reply" button?

lightfooted said:

No in fact you said "what cant i see with 450 lumens as opposed to 1100 lumens? the difference really isnt that great in real life use." TEEJ was simply making it clear that some people really do have to see into dark corners in their daily life. Maybe you don't. I have a friend who thought that my 3M which is the XM-L version (The XP-G version was rated at 350 lumens) was more light than he would ever need. The difference is that you see farther with 1100 lumens than you would with 450 lumens. Sometimes that matters outside of law enforcement/military encounters.

I believe I read somewhere that the 3M Pro used PWM which is something I try to avoid when I can. Not sure about the new 3M with XM-L2.

Also...really hate how the forums seem to boot your login after just a few minutes of typing your reply out. Why even have the "Quick Reply" button?

Click to expand...

Yeah, its situational. Its like a guy with a 40 watt bulb in his den, and he can see everything in the room by it....and another guy with a 100 watt bulb in the same sized den in HIS house...and they can both see everything in the room.

The 40 watt 450 lumen bulb might not show the detail that the 100 watt bulb could, and, it might be more eye strain to read by if at the end of the room furthest from the light...for both bulb types...but, it WILL be brighter with 1,100 lumens than with 40 lumens.

If its NOT that den, lets say its an entire warehouse, now the "pool of light" each bulb is making is significantly different, with the 1,100 lumens simply being able to cover more square meters with more lumens...its just math.

So to ask "what cant i see with 450 lumens as opposed to 1,100 lumens?" would depend entirely on what there was TO see.

Essentially, with the same beam pattern, you'd see further and more peripherally. If the beam angle was wider, you'd STILL see further unless it was a crazy wide angle, AND you'd see more peripherally.

1,100 L is about 150% more lumens than 450 L - so its like having 1.5 more flashlights on. (2.5 flashlights total instead of one)


So, if you have ONE 450 L flashlight, its NOT the same as having 2.5 of those flashlights...its just NOT the same.

....two and a half 450 L flashlights will simply show you more than one 450 L flashlight.


And so forth....in real life, the difference IS VERY GREAT....assuming either is "enough".




If looking for your hurt dog, you would be able to pass by where it was laying from further away. If you wanted to see if that was a bear out there, you'd be able to see it from further away. If you wanted to navigate a trail, you'd see more of it at a time and be able to pick your line better, and so forth.

Again, too much light CAN be a problem if its not the right tool for the job...so for CLOSE UP work, no, lower the intensity to avoid glare, etc....use a floody beam to disperse the light to a gentle pool instead of an angry bright dot, and so forth.

But, when you DO need more light, there's not much advantage to NOT having it.




As for PWM, some people are sensitive to the flickering...and some are not...but, most modern lights use such a high frequency that most people would not notice it. I don't remember for the 3M Pro, but I'd guess its probably not a big deal unless you happen to be super sensitive to PWM, etc. One modern one that the PWM can be an issue I did hear about was the Streamlight ProTac 88040 for example, as they used just 130 Hz, which is a very slow cycle that you'd easily see for example.

lightfooted said:

Also...really hate how the forums seem to boot your login after just a few minutes of typing your reply out. Why even have the "Quick Reply" button?

Click to expand...

Hi, lightfooted - when you log in, try ticking the Remember Me box. That should keep you logged in until you specifically log yourself out, close CPF or close your browser.

(I hate automatic logouts while I'm typing as well )