Nichia 219C

Fireclaw18 · Jun 15, 2015

Just read a detailed review Djozz wrote on the other flashlight forum reviewing the 83 CRI Nichia 219C LED. The review included sample output results at different currents. Supposedly the 90+ CRI version will have similar performance but isn't out yet.

The results were quite impressive! Apparently the 219C is a huge leap over previous 219 versions in performance. It produced almost as many lumens as the highest binned lower-CRI XPG2 cool white (S4 2B), and outperformed all other XPG2s tested. Output peaked at close to 1300 lumens at 6 amps. Also the new Nichia is more efficient than all the CREEs, with a Vf lower than all the XPG2s and even 0.25v lower than the XML2.

Will be amazing if the 90 CRI versions perform as well. I think I'll need to upgrade all the 219s in my high CRI flashlights later this year.

TEEJ · Jun 15, 2015

Fireclaw18 said:
Just read a detailed review Djozz wrote on the other flashlight forum reviewing the 83 CRI Nichia 219C LED. The review included sample output results at different currents. Supposedly the 90+ CRI version will have similar performance but isn't out yet.

The results were quite impressive! Apparently the 219C is a huge leap over previous 219 versions in performance. It produced almost as many lumens as the highest binned lower-CRI XPG2 cool white (S4 2B), and outperformed all other XPG2s tested. Output peaked at close to 1300 lumens at 6 amps. Also the new Nichia is more efficient than all the CREEs, with a Vf lower than all the XPG2s and even 0.25v lower than the XML2.

Will be amazing if the 90 CRI versions perform as well. I think I'll need to upgrade all the 219s in my high CRI flashlights later this year.

This is FANTASTIC NEWS!!!! (Assuming the 83 CRI version and 90+ versions DO have similar performance...albeit, given the gaps now, even close would be amazing)

:twothumbs

Anders Hoveland · Jun 15, 2015

I wonder what the loss in lumens is between the 83 CRI version and the 90+ version?
From what I know about other families of LEDs, I would guess about 20 percent less efficient.

Mr. Tone · Jun 15, 2015

Thanks for the heads up.

WhitedragonBC · Jun 16, 2015

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/40133
Pretty crazy improvement looking at that graph.

jon_slider · Jun 16, 2015

WhitedragonBC said:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/40133
Pretty crazy improvement looking at that graph.

thanks for the link
at 1 volt the 219B shows about 300 lumens and the 219C shows about 400.. I suspect the C will be cooler

I find the B cooler than the A in actual use, could be partly reflector difference. The measured CCT is 51K lower on the A, I dont know if my eye can perceive that as the extra warmth.

note the 219a also has 85 higher amplitude, the top of the colored curve is half a box closer to the top of the scale. I dont know what this means.. but maybe it is responsible for the perception that the A is warmer, more total red?

heres the Olight, look how little red spectrum it produces

images courtesy of my visit with Jason of darksucks.com who kindly used his measuring tool on my lights:

Anders Hoveland · Jun 16, 2015

Oh, if I only had a spectrometer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvKEtEyt-cg

Mr. Tone · Jul 17, 2015

I really am looking forward to this LED. The BLF thread has had some more updates and the data on the 5000K 83 CRI version of this has fantastic performance. It even withstood 10 amps for 2 minutes without frying. Bring on the 90+ CRI version!

markr6 · Jul 27, 2015

The new 219C Series is 9% brighter and more efficient than the 219B-V1 Series.

Eeh, good but not earth-shattering. I'm excited, but just a little

gunga · Jul 27, 2015

9%? Eh. Never mind.

Anders Hoveland · Jul 27, 2015

Advances in useful technology are often built on the accumulation of little improvements made over a long period of time.
Most new technologies were not very practical when they first came out, but had to be slowly improved before that technology was good enough to become widely prevalent, and surpass the prior way of doing things.

easilyled · Jul 27, 2015

markr6 said:
The new 219C Series is 9% brighter and more efficient than the 219B-V1 Series.

Eeh, good but not earth-shattering. I'm excited, but just a little

Strange, this seems to be in stark contradiction to post #1 and post #5 in which radical improvements were claimed.

more_vampires · Jul 27, 2015

If we can manage 9% every single year, that's pretty radical.

easilyled · Jul 28, 2015

more_vampires said:
If we can manage 9% every single year, that's pretty radical.

I think you know what I was getting at.

Posts #1, #5. #6 were hinting at an amazing improvement .... probably 60% judging by their findings. This seems in stark contrast to the figure of 9% that was mentioned below.

Its not an issue for me whether there is a 1% or a 100% improvement. I just would like to know which posts were closer to the reality.

Pöbel · Jul 28, 2015

The improvement is in the ultra low vf. Just looking at 350mA the XP-G2 will give you more Lumens, but the 219c has an incredibly low vf.
All things considered the 219c can be as efficient as an XP-G2 S4

From the data provided:

Lets say we want about 720 Lumens
XP-G2 S4 (716lm) | 1,8A @ 3,5V = 6,3W
219c (725lm) | 2A @ 3,15 = 6,3W

/edit
Just ordered two

easilyled · Jul 28, 2015

Pöbel said:
The improvement is in the ultra low vf. Just looking at 350mA the XP-G2 will give you more Lumens, but the 219c has an incredibly low vf.
All things considered the 219c can be as efficient as an XP-G2 S4

From the data provided:

Lets say we want about 720 Lumens
XP-G2 S4 (716lm) | 1,8A @ 3,5V = 6,3W
219c (725lm) | 2A @ 3,15 = 6,3W

/edit
Just ordered two

Understood. Thanks for the explanation.

Esko · Jul 28, 2015

Cree XP-G2: Typical Forward Voltage 2.8 V @ 0.35 A; S2 mininum flux 148 lm (85°C), 168 lm (25°C)

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Discrete-Directional/XLamp-XPG2
http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C... Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXPG2.pdf

Nichia 219C 5000K 83 cri:

Current 350 mA, Voltage 2,76 V, Luminous flux 144 lm, Light efficiency 149 lm/W.

http://www.leds.de/en/High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-NVSW219C-280lm-white.html

Pöbel · Jul 28, 2015

Please have a look at numbers from acutal testing. On low drive currents the XP-G is slightly ahead though, thats true.
I guess we can agree that for those concerend with maximum lumens the typical drive currents will not be low

Keep in mind that this is a 83CRI Nichia vs a 70CRI Cree! Pretty impressive!

Esko · Jul 28, 2015

Overriding leds for maximum lumens is a tiny niche need. If we want this to be an attractive choice for manufacturers, we need to concentrate on the numbers that are within the specifications.

From the manufacturer pages above:

XP-G2 (S2?): Maximum Light Output 515 lm @ 4.7 W (85°C) (110lm/W)
219C: 1800 mAh * 3,23V = 586lm @ 5,8 W (100lm/W)

From the test results:

XP-G2 S4: 1,4A & 3,39V => 581 lm @ 4,7W (122lm/W)
219C: 1,8A & 3,12V => 622 lm @ 5,6W (111lm/W)

Not bad.. For a slightly warmer led with better cri..

As a side note, the test voltages for XP-G2 are quite a bit higher than the datasheet values. The datasheet curve suggests something like 3,14 V at 1,5A. The test sample is 3,39V at 1,4A and 3,45V at 1,6A. Also, the datasheet at Cree homepage is half a month old and defines S2 as the highest bin. :thinking:

edit: Binning and labeling sheet (published in April) has S3 as the highest bin.

recDNA · Jul 28, 2015

What good is 83 CRI? I like Nichias in the 90's

Nichia 219C

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