Comparison Review - EagleTac T25C2 HI vs. S200C2

Hi again, my flashlight friends!

I just completed a side-by-side comparison of my newest light, the much talked about T25C2 with XP-L HI (Domeless High Intensity) emitter, and my constant hiking companion, a stock EagleTac S200C2 (Neutral White Emitter version).

A little background, for those of you who haven't followed my posts here. I do a lot of solo and partnered night hiking, in wilderness and national park areas, both on and off trails. Over the years, I've used a variety of different illumination setups during these activities, almost always involving a headlamp of some sort, and a handheld light "at ready" either in my hand, a pocket, or my pack. The handheld is for situations when I need brighter or throwier light than my headlamp can provide. My lights for this recreational activity have undergone a constant evolution over the years, as I've tried different things and found some light sources inadequate or unreliable. My most recent, and my favorite setup to date, consists of a Zebralight H52Fw or H600Fw, combined with a "pocketable" thrower. My favorite "baby sized thrower" lights recently have been the EagleTac S200C2 (Neutral) and the Armytek Predator Pro 2.5 (Warm). I've found that the two lights perform almost identically in terms of illumination and resolving detail at distance, they are practically interchangeable for my purposes. They only differ when it comes to a few UI and fit/finish/build differences.

My problem with both of these lights so far has been that they both have a rather large reflector housing, making them both fall very short in the "portability" department, particularly when it comes to pocketing or stashing the lights in my pack. They are just a touch too bulky and awkward for my needs, so I've been on a constant search for something smaller and more manageable. This problem has gone on to the extent that I've even given my S200C2 the nickname "My Light Clarinet" as a reference to its large size and flared shape!

Given all this, you can probably imagine my surprise and pleasure at finding out about EagleTac's newest light offerings, which included a factory domeless emitter "High Intensity" version of the T25C2. When I was finally able to read some real specs on the light, I was elated to discover that it had throw specs almost IDENTICAL to my much loved S200C2, in a light with barely any reflector bezel "flare" at all! Really a great moment had while reading this forum - good times!

Since that time, I've been wondering if the new T25C2 HI would live up to the specs, and if such a compact, easily manageable light could really perform as well as the S200C2 for long distance illumination. Well... today's the day! I picked up my new "micro thrower" at the post office, and began tinkering and comparing. I started earlier today with some hallway and wall beam examinations, some head disassembly and UI experimenting, then finally (after dusk) moved on to a "test hike" in one of my favorite nearby areas. This hike is about a mile long, and has a bit of everything to test a light's abilities. Fields, trees, power poles receeding into the distance, signs, fences, structures, and lots of various colored rocks and roadways.

The results? Read on...


Tint and Beam Artifacts
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The tint for the T25C2 emitter is listed as 3A. A nice neutral, if slightly on the "cool" side tint. Of all the Cree emitters I have personal experience with, the 3C tint is my favorite... so the revelation by EagleTac that these HI (High Intensity Domeless) emitters were very close to that tint bin was exciting news to me! I've always preferred more "neutral" tints since I became aware of such things, not particularly caring for overly warm or cold tints. To me, the ideal LED light source should have as little discernable "coloration" as possible, but I'm aware that this is very subjective, and that many people prefer warm or cool emitters. For me, though, pure white light is what makes me tick... with the slightest hint of dusky rose or orange if there really has to be any coloration at all.

The actual, real-world tint of my T25C2 HI specimen, on the otherhand, does have some tint... but not much. I would describe it as a very even (color consistent throughout the various beam regions) predominantly white with a little yellow-orange background tint. Very pleasing, and very neutral.

There is one annoying "artifact" in the beam, on the far outer edge. There is a large dark "gap" surrounding the spill light, then a thin line of very faint blue light. I am certain that this is because of the anti-reflective coating used on the glass, which is coated on both sides with a coating that looks blue when you hold it sideways in the light. This almost certainly has nothing to do with the emitter, as I've seen the same exact blue ring on my EagleTac D25A Ti Nichia 219 light, which has the same blueish anti-reflective coating on its glass surfaces too. In any case, this thin blue ring is unnoticeable in real-world use, but it does show up very prominantly when "white wall hunting". I never casually noticed it when actually using the light on this evenings hike, though when I was trying to see it... it was definitely there to be seen. To EagleTac: please clean this up, it's not professional to release a product with a flaw like this, then not fix it in later generations of your product line.

As far as tint comparison with my S200C2 (Neutral White Emitter version), the HI emitter used in the T25C2 is definitely cooler - by probably 1000K-1250K if I were to take a guess. The S200C2 has always been just a touch too warm for my personal tastes, though... so I'm personally finding the new HI emitter to be a lot more enjoyable for me to use. Your own mileage may vary.


Beam Geometry
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The beam has a very intense hotspot that's only about 5 degrees wide. The spill zone is somewhat narrow, but not overly "tunnel vision" like. It's only "confining" if you plan to use this light as your only illumination source, which I don't recommend. This light excels as a pocketable thrower, and does only middlingly as a general purpose "walk around" light. If you plan on hiking with this light or taking long walks with the dog, I'd definitely recommend having a handheld flooder or headlamp as a backup... or be prepared to wave this light around a lot to see the "larger picture" of your surroundings.

The transition from hotspot to spill is smooth, and there are no discernable "ringy" or splotchy artifacts (other than the "blue ring" artifact described above). Overall, a very nice beam profile for a thrower with limited "general purpose" usage potential.


Throw Comparison
----------------------

This is the part I've wondered the most about since hearing about the T25C2 HI. Could it possibly throw as far and reveal details at distance as well as the S200C2? It seemed so unlikely to me based on the greatly reduced reflector housing size and light body of almost 1/4" shorter length.

My real-world test was kind of surprising. The T25C2 HI did indeed "keep up" with the S200C2, and it did so without any compromise in brightness, beam shape, or discernable artifacts that I could see. Illumination was even and bright, and as I switched back and forth between the two lights I kept expecting the slimmer, lighter weight T25C2 HI to falter somehow and prove to be the lesser of the two torches. Not so... it just plain kept up, and revealed everything in the distance that the S200C2 did, but with a little cooler tint. I did notice a SLIGHT bit more "glare" from the particles in the air due to the increased color temperature of the T25C2, but I found that this effect could be easily compensated for by holding the light slightly "off axis" from the plane of viewing, either lowering the light and shining it upward, or holding it about a foot further outward and shining it inward. In any case, this effect is not very pronounced, and is DEFINITELY not a "deal breaker" or anything that's likely to become an annoyance over time. When I was comparing my cool white version Armytek Predator Pro to my S200C2, I also noticed this particulate glare effect, but it was about 4x as bad with that light... which gives you some idea as to the relatively minimal nature of this effect when using the T25C2 HI.

That's about it for the comparison of the two lights... my final thoughts are that the T25C2 HI emitter flashlight is every bit the pocketable thrower that the S200C2 is... but more... well... pocketable!


Other Observations
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Be careful when disassembling the head of the T25C2 HI. The glass can, and will fall out of the bezel once unscrewed. I dropped mine 3 feet onto a tile floor, and it's one tough piece of glass - no chips. I might not be as lucky next time.

The O-ring in the head was not lubed. Very screechy when unscrewing the bezel section to get to the emitter module. I superlubed it before re-assembly, I'd recommend you do the same if you get in there to change a module.

I could not get the emitter drop-in module to unscrew from the head section. I'm just not strong enough. I have a guy friend who's dropping by tomorrow, I'll ask him to try and unscrew it for me... otherwise I'll have to improvise some sort of a small strap wrench or figure out how to do it with pliers. I don't want to break it, so I want to try and do it right... but they REALLY screwed that thing in tight! . I need to get it out, as I have a Nichia 219 drop-in that's due to arrive Tuesday.

One final thing I noticed about the T25C2... affecting the lowest (4th) mode. This "lower low" level is activated by going to the lowest (3rd) mode, then rapidly switching the light to the next higher (medium) mode then back to the low mode again. This works nice - it's not a true "moonlight" mode, but it's dim enough to be useful for walking around with minimal light and low battery drain. The problem here is that the light does not remember this mode when you turn it off, so there's no way to intentionally turn the light on in this mode. The light always defaults back to the higher of the two low levels when turned back on. Maybe this is a bonus somehow for some people (though it escapes me how it could be...), but I find it super annoying. To EagleTac: if you make a light with a really low mode, PLEASE give us a way to turn the light ON in that mode without first exposing ourselves not only to a brighter level, but also a STILL BRIGHTER medium level in order to finally switch the ultra-low light level on. I'm really glad EagleTac included the 4th Low level, I just wish they'd implemented it better in the UI.


Final Thoughts
-----------------

I love the T25C2 HI and highly recommend it for anyone who wants a truly pocketable mid-to-long distance thrower. It's magnificent! I am planning on selling my S200C2 NW and at least two of my Armytek Predator Pro 2.5 lights at this point. I'm that impressed... and that unwilling to go back to the bulky "flared bezel" lights for my throwy night hiking companion light. Finally, I need to say that while this is a somewhat expensive light, it is DEFINITELY worth every penny and more if you require a light of its unique capabilities. Thank you, EagleTac - for my needs, you've created the light of the year!

I hope you have all enjoyed this review, and gotten something out of it!

thanks for the review! My T25C2 module will be here next week. The "gap and blue ring" artifact around the beam is not caused by the AR coating but is an artifact of the heads bezel itself. Try unscrewing the bezel then use the light the artifact should no longer be there. The T25C2 modules are in way to tight I wish ET would address this. Im a big guy and even I have to get the threads moving by using a small pair of channel locks and a cloth to keep the channel locks from marring the module. Thats how I break the module free and get it started well enough to put the tools away and finish removing it by hand. I to really wish ET would streamline their mode selecting process. Having to go quickly back and forth to get to 4th mode IS annoying as heck

Thanks for the comparison!

Amelia said:

Really a great moment had while reading this forum - good times!

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Funny, your "Really great moment" was due to my Very first comment in the forum, as an old saying in my country say, and i translate : "On the moment of his arrival, a candle of his hight"

: ) Good times ! indeed , felt that i had a role in your story.

I actually have the same enthusiasm about EagleTac G25C2 mkII for a lot of reasons, but it also -as all ET lights- lacks a real low moonlight mode to be perfect, "UNFORTUNATELY EAGLETAC"

Amelia said:

There is a large dark "gap" surrounding the spill light, then a thin line of very faint blue light.

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That thin line of blue light that you see is tiny bit of lumens reflecting on the shinny stainless steel bezel, i have this -a lot worse- very sharp bright wide circle outside the spill on my Thrunite TN35 due to the extremely bright and floody mt-g2.
Try to shine it up towards the sealing after removing the bezel and see if it still exists, but that is no solution to you as the bezel is needed to hold the glass in place !!! that is one downfall i did not know of.

Darkening the bezel some way if that is a possibility to you helps a lot. One of the tactical qualities i like in G25C2 and it bests other lights with is it's dark coated unreflective removable bezel.

Thanx for the comparison review, T25C2 is great module swapping light that i always knew I'll end up buying with many of its drop- ins.

Very nice review, Amelia. Thanks for posting your experiences for us.

Amelia said:

One final thing I noticed about the T25C2... affecting the lowest (4th) mode. This "lower low" level is activated by going to the lowest (3rd) mode, then rapidly switching the light to the next higher (medium) mode then back to the low mode again. This works nice - it's not a true "moonlight" mode, but it's dim enough to be useful for walking around with minimal light and low battery drain. The problem here is that the light does not remember this mode when you turn it off, so there's no way to intentionally turn the light on in this mode. The light always defaults back to the higher of the two low levels when turned back on. Maybe this is a bonus somehow for some people (though it escapes me how it could be...), but I find it super annoying. To EagleTac: if you make a light with a really low mode, PLEASE give us a way to turn the light ON in that mode without first exposing ourselves not only to a brighter level, but also a STILL BRIGHTER medium level in order to finally switch the ultra-low light level on. I'm really glad EagleTac included the 4th Low level, I just wish they'd implemented it better in the UI.

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This is actually the biggest reason I haven't bought any new Eagletac lights in a while. I really liked the lowest mode always being available and when they changed that it was a deal breaker for me. Yes, I also wish they had a moonlight available as I would think they could make it programmable for those who don't like a sub-lumen output. I haven't used this new UI yet and was hoping that it would have memory if you used the lowest mode but apparently it doesn't. I didn't see anything stating that on their literature but I was just hoping that might be the case. The G25C2 MKII UI is really nice and I have two of those in neutral white. I may just have to get a third one with the XP-L HI.

Thanks for the comparison!

LOL that 4th mode is ridiculous, but I bought one anyway. Like my S200C2, it we be set to high 99% of the time.

I'll have it Monday along with my Nichia 219 dropin!!

markr6 said:

Thanks for the comparison!

LOL that 4th mode is ridiculous, but I bought one anyway. Like my S200C2, it we be set to high 99% of the time.

I'll have it Monday along with my Nichia 219 dropin!!

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Same here, mine will be on max most of the time.

Thanks for the awesome review! :thumbsup:

some notes:

• We have never run across a LED module that was factory installed too tight and required tools to remove...
  BUT, we ourselves frequently have to STOP, and catch ourselves to make sure we are removing-loosening module the correct way.
  Users should never ever have need to use tools on any flashlight (except perhaps ring pliers for the switch retention ring in the tailcap).
  We cringe every time a customer mentions "tools", usually after the event and they have already damaged or marred the light...
  
  The LED Modules are **REVERSE** threaded.
  What frequently happens is user by default and unconsciously, twists the module "counter-clockwise to loosen it", then turns it some more, and then some more - trying to loosen module.
  When in reality they are tightening the module into the head!
  At this point a very careful use of channel pliers or similar on the reflector knurling MIGHT be required to LOOSEN the module by turning it CLOCKwise.

• Mode level selections are designed for the primary market of the Tactical T/G/M-Series lights = LEO/Military and weapon mounted users, while the general purpose D series have instant access quick access to low modes, which unfortunately are a smaller market for ET, which sometimes doesn't get the cool features or LED offered on the T/G/M series.

• The Oring at the head/bezel is intentionally dry.
  When lubed, there is a tendency for the bezel/front half of head to loosen rather than the head/body when grabbing head for mode changing... again, not something our LEO/Military users want (ie they expect the light to behave a certain way, and to turn on a specific level, and not be surprised).
  If you are a frequent module swapper outer, then a small dab of SuperLube would certainly help speed/smoothen up module swapping.

Cheers
Tod

Thanks for the great info, Tod. I am glad to see all this before my two T25C2 models arrive and I am sure it will help the others here, too. Hopefully nobody tries to use tools to loosen the module and actually tighten it to the point of breaking.

Thank you all for the great positive feedback!

A few new things.

First, removing the stainless bezel does NOT remove the "blue ring" artifact. I'm 100% certain that this is a glass and AR coating related issue, as the only thing that DOES fix the problem is to remove the glass itself from the bezel.

Second, I noticed a nice "accessory" related bonus with this light. The accessory packet includes a thick rubber "ring" (not an O-ring, but more of a cylinder) that is meant to replace the rubber "cigar holder" piece for those who don't like it. I personally have no intention of doing that, as I LOVE the extra grip that the cigar holder ring provides. However, playing with the tailcap lanyard attachment ring (which I have no use for), I noticed that you could remove it, then put the cigar ring replacement cylinder where the lanyard attachment ring went. It will go on at an "angle", with the thinner part of the artificially created slanted taper either forward or backward on the light. If situated with the thinner part of the taper toward the tailcap and switch, you now have a secondary cigar holder type stepped "flare" that helps keep the light from slipping out of your hands! Excellent! I'm planning on keeping it set up that way.

P.S. Thanks Tod for the input on the module, I was indeed trying to loosen it by turning counter-clockwise. I'll attempt removal later this afternoon by turning it the correct direction!

Curious that EagTac does not mention the reverse threads of the module on their website or instructional paperwork.

And while LEO/Military use is certainly important, just wondering what actual percentage of EagTac lights are purchased by civilians: 80% ?

KITROBASKIN said:

Curious that EagTac does not mention the reverse threads of the module on their website or instructional paperwork.

Click to expand...

The Nichia module I got along with the new T25C2 had a leaflet that mentioned the reverse threads.
I assumed it was from Eagletac but it's possible Tod included that with the shipment.

Amelia said:

One final thing I noticed about the T25C2... affecting the lowest (4th) mode. This "lower low" level is activated by going to the lowest (3rd) mode, then rapidly switching the light to the next higher (medium) mode then back to the low mode again. This works nice - it's not a true "moonlight" mode, but it's dim enough to be useful for walking around with minimal light and low battery drain. The problem here is that the light does not remember this mode when you turn it off, so there's no way to intentionally turn the light on in this mode. The light always defaults back to the higher of the two low levels when turned back on. Maybe this is a bonus somehow for some people (though it escapes me how it could be...), but I find it super annoying. To EagleTac: if you make a light with a really low mode, PLEASE give us a way to turn the light ON in that mode without first exposing ourselves not only to a brighter level, but also a STILL BRIGHTER medium level in order to finally switch the ultra-low light level on. I'm really glad EagleTac included the 4th Low level, I just wish they'd implemented it better in the UI.

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly! It's a shame they ditched G25C2's UI, it's great - 4 well spaced modes, you can change one by one in both ways (which is a great feature!). TX25C2 and T25C2 with such UI would be perfect and I'd have one of them already. Intstead - I'm still waiting since G25C2 is too big for my liking.

phantom23 said:

My thoughts exactly! It's a shame they ditched G25C2's UI, it's great - 4 well spaced modes, you can change one by one in both ways (which is a great feature!). TX25C2 and T25C2 with such UI would be perfect and I'd have one of them already. Intstead - I'm still waiting since G25C2 is too big for my liking.

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Yep, G25C2 MKII UI is a real winner. What's nice is you don't have to have any blinky modes if you don't want them.

^^ Agreed. Suprisingly G25C2 is the one with wider spill, smaller (=more pocketable, more EDC-able) T25C2 has tighter spill, probably because of deeper bezel.

Thanks for the review, Amelia.
It would be great if you could post a picture next to the Predator. This would really help me.
Thanks, Thomas.

I received my T25C2 HI yesterday. The light is nice and compact with very impressive throw for its size. I took it outside during the day with no clouds and the tint is similar to daylight. Also, there is not the annoying tint shift that is common to all domed Cree emitters. The tint of this light will probably satisfy most neutral and cool white lovers.

thomas_sti_red said:

Thanks for the review, Amelia.
It would be great if you could post a picture next to the Predator. This would really help me.
Thanks, Thomas.

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http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...h-XP-L-HI-(High-Intensity)-plus-others!/page3

My post #89 for the pic of the Predator and T25C2