Then and Now - The Benefits of LED Flashlights

david57strat

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Now that I'm in comparative nostalgic mode, I thought I'd start a thread comparing one example of a flashlight using yesterday's technology, with one today's. Note that, in this instance I've chosen to use an extremely warm-tinted drop-in, to closely approximate the color temperature of an incandescent bulb. THE LED has many of the advantages of the incandescent, with almost none of the weaknesses. I've used this LED tint for two reasons. 1) Some people can't stand cool white color temperatures that most LED flashlights produce, and they swear by their old incandescent lights, believing that they have no choice, other than their old tried-and-true incandescent or some funky blueish, greenish, or purpleish LED lights. A few years ago, that may have been true, but no more. They just will not part with them, mainly for this reason. 2) I wanted to show that it is entirely possible to get a huge range of tints (from super warm, to super cool) out of your P60 light, depending on which LED you choose. Want something warm, neutral.cool...something in between? It's out there. You just have to choose the right one for the application, and you're home free
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  1. On the left - an old Garrity plastic flashlight, with a rubberized grip, running on two alkaline D cells, "upgraded" (lol) with an incandescent bulb I stole out of the tailcap (it was the backup bulb) of my old 2D Maglite. It had never been used, until I installed in this old Garrity). Believe it or not, that Maglite bulb was way better than the stock bulb that had been installed in the Garrity, which died. The light weighed in at 20 ounces, with 2 D batteries, installed.
  2. On the right - a shortened version of one of my Solarforce L2M hosts, with a few upgrades (L2T head with B6 stainless bezel, recessed tail cap switch, with an International Outdoors XP-L U5 7A3 3-mode drop-in, running on a single 16340 battery. This light weighed in at about 4 ounces, with the 16340 battery, installed. This is a fully modular host/light. You can use it in its shortened version, with one CR123 or 16340 battery, or use the extender (which is how I usually use it), and use a single 18650 battery in it (as long as the drop-in supports the voltage). Fortunately, this one does.

The old Garrity has no waterproofing, of any kind on the threads (no o-rings, no nothing). All the threads are plastic. I'd be willing to bet that if that light were dropped on its head, the plastic lens would crack, and the bulb would most certainly break, rendering the light completely useless. The light on the right is completely o-ring sealed, is fully waterproof to IP-X8 standards (2 meters, 30 minutes), and the glass lens will allow the highest lumen transfer out of the light, while the stainless bezel protects it from cracking, in the event of a drop (The IP-X8 rating is to 1.5 meters, if I'm not mistaken).. I'm not saying it's shatter-proof - but it's highly resistant.

Every part on this light can be replaced, easily and inexpensively, if need be.

As with all older flashlights, the Garrity is a direct drive light. It will start dimming, within just minutes after you turn it on. The electronics on the International Outdoors drop-in in the Solarforce, are regulated to maintain constant output (within a certain voltage range), until the voltage drops to a certain level, at which point, it will run, on direct drive, just like the incandescent, then fade slowly. When the voltage is dangerously low, the light will start blinking, to let you know a battery change is necessary - before it finally shuts down, completely. Most protected lithium ion cells shut off at 2.7 volts, anyway, to protect the battery from being over discharged.


In spite of the huge reflector, the Garrity was only able to produce this alien-like, super-narrow beam (it's all spot...no spill, whatsoever. I had to actually light up the Garrity with the Solarforce, set to its lowest level, so you could even see the Garrity, in the picture lol. Had it not been for that, all you would see is that little tiny spot on the wall. Terrible quality light. Pretty much useless (not much better than an actual lit candle). Sad.

Camera settings here, are ISO 80, 1/2 second exposure, at F5.6, daylight white balance, and neutral colors


same exact settings. The International Outdoors drop-in has very large hot spot, and an equally generous spill beam - particularly well-suited for distance spotting, but offering up nice peripheral vision, as well - a great combination (no tunnel vision) - especially outdoors.


The distance from the doorway to the desk was probably not even 12 feet away.
Camera settings - ISO 80, F3.5, 1 second exposure, same white balance and color settings as before


..and here, with the Solarforce light

Once you fully deplete an alkaline (or any other primary) battery, you're done. Game over. You have to replace the battery. Once you break a bulb, it has to be replaced. Lithium ion batteries can be re-charged hundreds of times, and pay for themselves, during heavy usage. They have no memory effect, like old NiCads (they can be just topped off, periodically, and still maintain a full duty cycle, in between charges. LEDs last thousands of hours, are more efficient, and very rarely fail, and as is the case with a P60 host, you can choose any tint you want.

Are you beginning to realize the amazing flexibility of the P60 host? That's why I'm so hooked on these things.

This is all with a little tiny light measuring in at about four inches long. Imagine the output of a larger, heavier light; and with a multi-mode light, you can use a lower output settings, for much longer run times, if you don't need retina-searing output lol.

I didn't use a keychain (or other super compact) light, because the P60 lights are the only ones I have, with a very wide range of tints from which to choose, and that I actually have, at my disposal.

I hope this sheds some light (no pun intended) on some of the basic differences between the older incandescent lights, and LED lights of today. It's a good time to be a flashaholic. Choices are nearly limitless, limited only by your imagination and your pocketbook.

Thanks for viewing my post. As always, your comments and/or questions are always most welcome
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david57strat

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Re: Then and Now



On the Left - Bronze-colored 2AA Mini Maglite incandescent, with whatever stock bulb they had, back then. Probably about 15 lumens, at best.

On the Right - Nitecore MT21a, with Cree XP-E2 R2 (...?)..very small LED. 260 lumens. With head tightened, always comes on, on Hi. With the head loosened, whatever you programmed it to be (low, medium high, s.o.s., or strobe). Momentary switch. Nice solid feeling switch, by the way.

Both lights are running on AA Eneloops.

I have always felt that Maglite made very beautiful colors (a huge range, compared to many other flashlight companies), but **** poor anodizing. The anodizing scratched right off, way too easily. Maybe they've improved that, over time. I doubt it.

Nitecore do a pretty nice job, with their anodizing.

I also believe all decent quality flashlights should use good, low-loss, anti-reflective glass lenses. Why a flashlight company would choose to use crappy plastic, is beyond me - especially a once very reputable company like Maglite. I think they may have used glass in their far more expensive lights (like the Mag Charger, but that was a hundred dollar light...or more).

I've used that old Maglite plenty. I never bothered to change out the incandescent bulb. The only reason the finish has held up so well, is that I was very careful not to drop it, and it always stored in its nylon holster (when not in use), before being pocketed. Miraculously, the lens doesn't seem to be scratched up. I've had that light in Black, Blue, Red, and even Purple. The Purple finish they use is extremely beautiful, by the way. I still have it, upgraded with a Terralux 140 lumen drop-in. I picked i up on eBay, in mint condition, in a little plastic presentation box - kind of as a collector's item, with the intent of doing an LED upgrade on it....just to have a piece of history that actually worked well, for its form factor.



Two beam shots, here. I couldn't wait for it to be completely dark lol. The shots were taken about maybe 12 feet away.

Camera settings: ISO 80, f2.8, daylite white balance, neutral color setting


With the 2AA MiniMag. Almost nothing is actually lit up. I focused the beam as best I could. Not focusing the beam to spot, would have yielded nearly no light at all. This was bad enough.


Nitedore MT21A. It has a very nicely focused center beam, and a generous spill beam best of both worlds.

Why in this day and age, should we have to settle for a poorly focused beam, or a horrible donut hole flood? Hmmm?

By the way, LED Lenser actually make a very nice focus-able beam, compared to many other light companies - and they are light years better than Maglite, in beam quality - but they're hogging the patent on that technology - and they're way overpriced, considering the technology they're giving you.

I was too impatient to wait for it to get dark, to take this light outside and show that it can actually project a beam a really nice, respectable distance; but it can.
 
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david57strat

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Re: Then and Now

Next up:


Pelican 2320 M6 incandescent (74 lumens) vs. Solarforce L2N with custom Erik Kress XM-L 7C 5-mode (.02 - 700 plus lumens)
Another quick and dirty iPhone picture, for now. I'll take and post real ones, later
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Bullzeyebill

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Re: Then and Now

Good comparisons but you are speaking to the Choir. Not that it's bad, cause comparing LED to Incandescent is always fun. Please continue with your work, and consider this a bump. :)

Bill
 

Tac Gunner

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Re: Then and Now

Nice comparisons! I suggest that you change the title to something like "advantages of led lights" that way if someone is searching the internet they are more likely to see this post and benefit from it.
 

markr6

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Re: Then and Now

Just for fun I did this comparison last year (pasted from another thread). I found these Rayovac Rouchnecks from when I was a kid (at least 20 years ago)


rouchnecks.jpg


2D_L10.jpg



2D_L10_beam.jpg


We've come a long way :laughing:
 

Rider57

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Re: Then and Now

Just for fun I did this comparison last year (pasted from another thread). I found these Rayovac Rouchnecks from when I was a kid (at least 20 years ago)
We've come a long way :laughing:

Thank gawd beams dont look like that anymore lol i cringed! Not even my ancient maglight is that bad
 

FRITZHID

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Re: Then and Now

Just for fun I did this comparison last year (pasted from another thread). I found these Rayovac Rouchnecks from when I was a kid (at least 20 years ago)


rouchnecks.jpg


2D_L10.jpg



2D_L10_beam.jpg


We've come a long way :laughing:

Is that second picture a micro wormhole?? Lol
Yeah, really have improved handheld lighting over the years. I recall the rayovac black body "xenon" 2c growing up and my wife's mini LED knockoff would kill it today, and it was the light to own when it came out. Given, mags always had adjustable focus which was nice, the beam was always lopsided, artifacty & just generally sloppy compared to today's LED standards.
 

D6859

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Re: Then and Now

I've got two Maglites. One with the USA coulours on it is about 20-year-old incandescent and it was given to my father by his friend and later I got it from my dad. I broke the bulbs and lost some essential parts when trying to fix it. I didn't get the parts I needed until last year, but now it's working! The black one I bought from a second hand shop in the internet and got a Terralux LED upgrade and Niteize IQ switch for it. I run both lights on Eneloops.

old_and_new.jpg


I set the white balance in my camera to "daylight" and the exposure time was 1/8s with ISO400:
incan_mag.jpg


led_mag.jpg


The picture quality isn't very good but you can see the difference in the light output and the tint between the lights. I find the tint of the incan more pleasurable, but I've seen candles more brighter than that and the beam is horrible. I'm not saying it was good in the led-upgraded - that one has the beam full of circles.
 

Rider57

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Re: Then and Now

I've got two Maglites. One with the USA coulours on it is about 20-year-old incandescent and it was given to my father by his friend and later I got it from my dad. I broke the bulbs and lost some essential parts when trying to fix it. I didn't get the parts I needed until last year, but now it's working! The black one I bought from a second hand shop in the internet and got a Terralux LED upgrade and Niteize IQ switch for it. I run both lights on Eneloops.

old_and_new.jpg


I set the white balance in my camera to "daylight" and the exposure time was 1/8s with ISO400:
incan_mag.jpg


led_mag.jpg


The picture quality isn't very good but you can see the difference in the light output and the tint between the lights. I find the tint of the incan more pleasurable, but I've seen candles more brighter than that and the beam is horrible. I'm not saying it was good in the led-upgraded - that one has the beam full of circles.

That is the most American thing ive seen in a while, built to last, thick, heavy, reliable, and if it doesnt work you can beat an elk to death with it
 

Timothybil

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Re: Then and Now

I'm not set up for pictures, but I think the best example I can come up with is this. My first good light was a Surefire G2, back around 2004, before they had the lockout tail cap. I came with the usual P60, and put out a whole 60 lumens in a nice even beam. I lost track of that one, but got another original G2 early this year. This one has a Nichia 219B drop in from Mountain Electronics, with a very nice 400 lumen high and the same even beam. What a difference ten years makes!
 

D6859

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Re: Then and Now

That is the most American thing ive seen in a while, built to last, thick, heavy, reliable, and if it doesnt work you can beat an elk to death with it

I wonder if it was the last thing you mentioned that made the Swiss-Finnish couple to give the flashlight to my Finnish dad. Law says you cannot use flashlight for lightning when hunting (excepts I you're trailing a wounded animal) but no-one said anything about beating them to death!

I have to admid I prefer the black colour, but I like the customer service Maglite has. I lost some parts about 15 years ago when I was trying to fix the light. Last year I got the light from home, contacted the importer and I got the spare parts for free! All I had to do was to buy the bulbs by myself.
 

david57strat

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Re: Then and Now



  1. On the left: Pelican 2320 M6 incandesent - 74 lumens (1 mode)
  2. On the right:Solarforce L2N host, with A001 head, custom Erik Kress XM-L 7C 5-mode P60 drop-in, with orange peel reflector (.01 - approximately 700 OTF lumens), B6 stainless bezel, stainless clip, and S11 stainless switch

That ridged tail cap on the L2N allows for easy access to the button, even with a gloved hand, and offers solid tail stand capability
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.


The fins on the A001 head help, a little bit, with heat dissipation - and they look cool lol. Too bad this head is so hard to find, these days.


Nice combination of gnurling, and finger grips on the side of the L2N. Hex head and stainless clip help avoid the light from rolling around.

Now that I'm thinking about it, this probably isn't the greatest comparison in lights, since the orange peel reflector is optimized for a smooth beam - not throw.


M6


L2N


M6


L2N


M6


L2N


About ten years ago, this little M6 was considered quite the powerful little light, with a whopping 74 lumens of incandescent light, with its smooth reflector, and nicely focused beam (for its time). This little light blew away my giant 6D Maglite incandescent, before I upgraded the drop-in in that one.

Interestingly enough, the old M6 will actually accept some P60 drop-ins, but is not suited for any high-powered ones, because of the terrible heat sinking and plastic lens :-(. Still, Pelican were thinking ahead, at last somewhat, when they built that light. Very cool!
 

Bullzeyebill

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Re: Then and Now

M6, are you referring to the Surfire M6 with upwards to 750 lumens? Must be a different M6 you are talking about.

Bill
 

Str8stroke

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Re: Then and Now

Bill, the Pelican light he is talking about was also called the M6. If you look close in the pics you can see it.

I too had one, I was so proud that I got "Surefire light output", with out the Surefire price. Which at the time, I couldn't afford a Surefire. If I recall, the SF light was 120 lumens! I only saw it at the local dealer and thought how lucky some folks were to be able to afford them. :)

Pelican and TacStar were my SF lights at the time. ha!
 
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