Harder to impress...

Stream · Aug 3, 2015

Now that LED lights have become the new standard, do you find that it is harder to impress people with your lights? Around these parts it is not uncommon to find CREE lights that go up to 200 - 300 lumens (sometimes even higher) in well stocked stores. Although, most people will go with the cheapo 5mm type lights, it is not uncommon to see CREE lights out and about. And so people seem to be more aware of what's out there. I find that it typically takes more than 500 lumens to really impress anyone. Back in the day, people's jaws would drop at a mere 65 lumens, but that was because everyone was used to 12 lumen incans.

TEEJ · Aug 3, 2015

Harder to impress?

Hmmm....I don't think of the scenarios as trying to impress people...but, conceptually, I did have an example of an investigation at an elderly person's home, where they saw I was going into a dark area, and they pulled out a 1,000 L Nitecore.

In "the old days", they would have had no light at all, or, maybe one of those old plastic incans that you banged on periodically to keep them on, etc.

WalkIntoTheLight · Aug 3, 2015

Output for your average Joe has gone up since the days on incandescents, but not by a huge amount. Most Joe's are still using crappy mini Maglite LEDs. Even a couple of hundred lumens looks impressive compared to that.

TEEJ · Aug 3, 2015

Lux seems to be more impressive than lumens.

A 131 L tight beam spot will typically be described as brighter than a 900 L flood beam for example.

Tac Gunner · Aug 3, 2015

That's what I find more annoying than anything is people not understanding beams, lux, and lumens and when you try to explain they just say "mine lights up farther it's brighter than your 100 dollar light"

RetroTechie · Aug 3, 2015

In that case, pull out a $100 thrower, and make them reconsider.

WarRaven · Aug 3, 2015

I paid under a $100 for my M3XS-UT.
Doubt there many cheapies that can out distance its beam.
Even if there is, probably needs to be mounted to a Energized power source, not two cells. ☺

markr6 · Aug 3, 2015

It's definitely easier to impress with throw. And easier to measure. You're more likely to hear "Wow! That thing is throwing at least 500 meters!" than "Wow! That's doing 140°! My light only spreads 80°"

Now it's hard to impress me now with these 2000, 3000, 5000lm lights. Less noticeable differences. It comes down to the reflector and purpose of the light, as well as the lumens given the size of the light.

My father in law picked up my MX25L3C w/ Nichia 219 over the weekend and turned it on. I just heard "...GEEEZ what the hell!! WOW..." then I told him that was the "dimmer" model since it had better color quality. I didn't get into CRI, CCT, etc

But I think my SC600 would have been just as impressive given its small size.

FRITZHID · Aug 3, 2015

If/when someone says "mine throws further....nana".... I pull maxabeam out and they shut up.
It's all a matter of use. Up close, a 1k lm flood is more useful than a 500 lm thrower. And in a throw contest, it's only practical if the light reflected is useful. There are many "bright" lights out there for the masses but the high end, mods and pro lights will still impress and out-do them.
And then comes things like cri, tint, bad pwm/ui, etc.... They love their $20 cree Wal-Mart special till they see/use a $50 upgraded nichia or xml2 with good cc driver and custom ui.... Then the green eyed monster pops up again!

TEEJ · Aug 3, 2015

Fritz - Yeah, often, you show a "green beam" and they see it as "white", because their eyes (being human, etc...) essentially perform an automatic white balance.

When you then compare the green beam, side by side, to a "whiter" beam, they suddenly see that the green one is actually greener....but that now the second one is definitely "white"

If you add a third side by side beam that's even whiter than the 2nd one, they THEN see the green as green and the 2nd one as just less green and the THIRD ONE is now definitely "white"...

...and so on.

markr6 · Aug 3, 2015

FRITZHID said:
They love their $20 cree Wal-Mart special till they see/use a $50 upgraded nichia or xml2 with good cc driver and custom ui.... Then the green eyed monster pops up again!

TEEJ said:
Fritz - Yeah, often, you show a "green beam" and they see it as "white", because their eyes (being human, etc...) essentially perform an automatic white balance.

When you then compare the green beam, side by side, to a "whiter" beam, they suddenly see that the green one is actually greener....but that now the second one is definitely "white"

If you add a third side by side beam that's even whiter than the 2nd one, they THEN see the green as green and the 2nd one as just less green and the THIRD ONE is now definitely "white"...

...and so on.

Very true. I like to do comparisons and only keep the lights that look good in comparison to a good "baseline". I just like to "KNOW" that when I use my light, it's a good quality light in my mind no matter what I'm doing (real life use, comparing tints, etc) Speaking of harder to impress

FRITZHID · Aug 3, 2015

markr6 said:
Very true. I like to do comparisons and only keep the lights that look good in comparison to a good "baseline". I just like to "KNOW" that when I use my light, it's a good quality light in my mind no matter what I'm doing (real life use, comparing tints, etc) Speaking of harder to impress

Well, you have to remember, we're not your average light users.... We're light snobs! Most of us KNOW a good light from a bad one without comparison.... Your typical Wal-Mart customer on the other hand.... Not so much.

markr6 · Aug 3, 2015

FRITZHID said:
Well, you have to remember, we're not your average light users.... We're light snobs! Most of us KNOW a good light from a bad one without comparison.... Your typical Wal-Mart customer on the other hand.... Not so much.

That's true. I've had people totally impressed with my L10 Nichia 219. I think that maxes out around 120lm? Still, given the size they're probably expecting something like 30lm at best.

reppans · Aug 3, 2015

Tiny 3.2" lights on IMR16340s putting out >750 lms still seem to do the trick for me

LedTed · Aug 3, 2015

Several years ago, I walked the production floor with a calibration / equipment manager. We were checking equipment numbers and calibration due dates. At one machine the manager said, "I can't write down this one cuz I can't read the tag.", and started to walk away. I stayed at the machine and pulled out my NC D10 and lit up an equipment tag. The light was on its lowest setting. The calibration guy came back and said, "That's not very bright." I replied, "Really? It's brighter than the one you don't have." Then I bumped up the brightness a bit. The calibration guy said, "That's better." I replied, "Now it's even brighter than the one you don't have.", and I used the shortcut to bring the light to max brightness. The guy did nothing. I said, "Now it's even way brighter than the one you still don't have and you still need to record the tag." The guy gave me a dirty look as I waited for him to record the information; which he eventually did.

A few days later, the same manager explained to me that he needed to double check one of the numbers he had recorded the other day and demanded, "Give me your flashlight." I just said, "No." It was my turn to walk away. Some people will never learn.

scs · Aug 3, 2015

I have become jaded to some degree and expect even more lumens and runtime. And those expectations must be exceeded for me to be impressed.

Ladd · Aug 3, 2015

scs said:
I have become jaded to some degree and expect even more lumens and runtime. And those expectations must be exceeded for me to be impressed.

Luckily, for us wanting more lumens and more runtime, improvements in technology seem to come along pretty regularly, Important also is improved efficiency (light versus just making heat.)

markr6 · Aug 3, 2015

Ladd said:
Luckily, for us wanting more lumens and more runtime, improvements in technology seem to come along pretty regularly, Important also is improved efficiency (light versus just making heat.)

Spot on! Heat is now my biggest enemy. I'm tending to stick with stock lights as much as possible to try and avoid super hot lights. I loved my M43 Nichia, but it just got too hot, too fast. But that's to be expected with a shot, fat chunk of aluminum and copper and 12 LEDs!

more_vampires · Aug 3, 2015

markr6 said:
Spot on! Heat is now my biggest enemy. I'm tending to stick with stock lights as much as possible to try and avoid super hot lights. I loved my M43 Nichia, but it just got too hot, too fast. But that's to be expected with a shot, fat chunk of aluminum and copper and 12 LEDs!

Oh yeah, that thing is a freaking toaster! With my M43vn XP-G2 on 8 amp turbo, shining the beam on your hand you feel the heat from the light almost immediately.

So awesome! That is one impressive light! You can see the beam in daylight sunshine on the ground. Slightly brighter than the sun!

Stream · Aug 3, 2015

LedTed said:
Several years ago, I walked the production floor with a calibration / equipment manager. We were checking equipment numbers and calibration due dates. At one machine the manager said, "I can't write down this one cuz I can't read the tag.", and started to walk away. I stayed at the machine and pulled out my NC D10 and lit up an equipment tag. The light was on its lowest setting. The calibration guy came back and said, "That's not very bright." I replied, "Really? It's brighter than the one you don't have." Then I bumped up the brightness a bit. The calibration guy said, "That's better." I replied, "Now it's even brighter than the one you don't have.", and I used the shortcut to bring the light to max brightness. The guy did nothing. I said, "Now it's even way brighter than the one you still don't have and you still need to record the tag." The guy gave me a dirty look as I waited for him to record the information; which he eventually did.

A few days later, the same manager explained to me that he needed to double check one of the numbers he had recorded the other day and demanded, "Give me your flashlight." I just said, "No." It was my turn to walk away. Some people will never learn.

Great story. It's one thing when the average Joe doesn't carry around a light, but I'm always amazed when professionals who really need one for work don't have one handy. You were right not to lend it to him when he demanded it later, let him learn his lesson and get a freaking flashlight.

Harder to impress...

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