New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

[id30209]

@Rush

Any updates on new driver?

[GoVegan]

Are these reverse polarity protected? Could I just flip the battery over to prevent it turning on?

rush,
I never saw any confirmation on this.
If an RCR123 is inserted the wrong way, would it damage the light engine and/or LED?

Ultimately I always saw this as the biggest failure with the S3 driver design.

[rush]

GoVegan,
the Hive drivers are all reverse polarity protected, you don't have to worry about inserting a battery the wrong way.

id30209,
there is a working prototype of the new driver but i am not happy with the performance yet, so more work is needed on the design.

[F89]

GoVegan,
the Hive drivers are all reverse polarity protected, you don't have to worry about inserting a battery the wrong way.

id30209,
there is a working prototype of the new driver but i am not happy with the performance yet, so more work is needed on the design.

Thanks for the update. This is the only thing that has my interest on CPF so I'll be interested to see a successful result.

[rush]

Thanks for the encouraging words F89, i certainly do my best to improve on the shortcomings of the current HiveLD. I would be another happy user

[id30209]

Hive is awesome as it is now but getting it better it would be amazing.
Thx Rush!


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[F89]

Thanks for the encouraging words F89, i certainly do my best to improve on the shortcomings of the current HiveLD. I would be another happy user

Thanks for your efforts more importantly.
I've been waiting patiently and quietly but I must say that I'm pretty keen to see your revised driver in production. For now I like to think that you're tinkering away and perfecting it .

[monty94]

Hi, I'm looking at ordering a haiku but read about the hive pwm issues on low lumen settings. I'm just wondering when rush does update things to address this issue, does it mean new hardware? In which case I might be better off waiting for the update before I order the haiku?

[F89]

Hi, I'm looking at ordering a haiku but read about the hive pwm issues on low lumen settings. I'm just wondering when rush does update things to address this issue, does it mean new hardware? In which case I might be better off waiting for the update before I order the haiku?

Hi Monty,

As far as I know it will mean a new light engine (hardware). The good part is that it's easily removed/replaced (with some minor considerations regarding the Haiku reflector).
The Hive is a really excellent driver but, like you, I had my concerns regarding PWM and it wasn't for me. A reworked one will be a really good thing.
I have a fair handfull of McGizmo lights (including 4 Haikus, sounds incredibly greedy), all of which have the 3S light engine (no longer available) and AA light engine.
I held out quite a while intending to get a Mahi when the new Hive came out but I recently caved and ordered one with an AA LE and 1xAA pak which is actually not a bad combo, I did however promptly swap in a 3S (AA LE went to a Sundrop along with 1xAA pak) and put it on a 1x123 pak.
My EDC is a Haiku 1xAA pak with AA LE (119V) and I can't rate it highly enough. The Haiku is my favourite light of all time.
My Haiku set ups include: 1x123 with 3S XPG2 (newer smooth OP XPG reflector), 1xAA with AA 119V (newer smooth OP XPG reflector), 2xAA with 3S 219B sw45k (not a stock LED with XRE/XML reflector) and 1x123 with 3S 219B sw45k (older heavy OP XPG reflector).
Many happily use the Hive in it's current form and I have to say that it has a lot going for it but if the PWM on low modes is a non starter there's always aftermarket LE's (they'll likely be 4.2V only, which for me is a disadvantage), or you could seek out a used 3S? Then there's the AA LE, it doesn't have a stack of lumens but it's incredibly capable (and versatile).
While I really like the Haiku on the 1x123 pak, I'd have to say the 1xAA with AA LE is a wonderdul thing.
Not sure if any of my ramblings help (or further confuse?) but I encourage you to continue your interest.

[id30209]

The only problem with PWM is ultra low levels which you won’t see or use if you choose standard 3S operation in UI.
That’s why i don’t see any flickering in my setups but i’m not using super low levels at all.
For night expedition i’m using 660nm red light.


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[F89]

The only problem with PWM is ultra low levels which you won’t see or use if you choose standard 3S operation in UI. That’s why i don’t see any flickering in my setups but i’m not using super low levels at all. For night expedition i’m using 660nm red light. Sent from Tapatalk

Thanks for sharing your thoughts id. Perhaps I should have mentioned that the 3S also uses PWM on it's lower modes, I'm quite susceptible to PWM but I don't see it on the 3S and don't think anyone would. The current Hive however, the PWM on low modes was quite obvious. I used to use 660nm red in the army, it's pleasing on the eyes but terrible as far as being monochromatic and tactically pretty useless as even tiny amounts of red light (any light) literally light up like a Christmas tree when using NVG It does a pretty good job if used low enough not to mess with your dark adjusted eyes but then again so does white light if used low enough (needs to be quite a bit lower than 660nm). Currently I don't find I often need moonlight levels. That said, if the reworked Hive came out I'd snap up a couple for its moonlight ability amongst other things.

[Scout1]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts id. Perhaps I should have mentioned that the 3S also uses PWM on it's lower modes, I'm quite susceptible to PWM but I don't see it on the 3S and don't think anyone would. The current Hive however, the PWM on low modes was quite obvious. I used to use 660nm red in the army, it's pleasing on the eyes but terrible as far as being monochromatic and tactically pretty useless as even tiny amounts of red light (any light) literally light up like a Christmas tree when using NVG It does a pretty good job if used low enough not to mess with your dark adjusted eyes but then again so does white light if used low enough (needs to be quite a bit lower than 660nm). Currently I don't find I often need moonlight levels. That said, if the reworked Hive came out I'd snap up a couple for its moonlight ability amongst other things.

So reading through this, yall only see the flicker (PWM) through bridging the contacts and accessing the lower output settings? I just got my first Light from Don, and I can't see any flicker on the lowlow setting..... ETA: Haiku/HIVE/123/Nichia119v

thanks!

[F89]

So reading through this, yall only see the flicker (PWM) through bridging the contacts and accessing the lower output settings? I just got my first Light from Don, and I can't see any flicker on the lowlow setting..... ETA: Haiku/HIVE/123/Nichia119v

thanks!

Yes and no.
Yes, I bridged the jumper on my Hive to be able to adjust the settings. However, I found issues at levels equating to higher than the lowest setting of the 3S (25mA).
You'll need to read through this thread if you're interested in the issues that have been raised. If you're happy then that's the most important thing for oneself.

[Scout1]

Ok thank you for the info! Glad to be learning all this. Ordered an AA mule so I’ll have both engines!

[F89]

Ok thank you for the info! Glad to be learning all this. Ordered an AA mule so I’ll have both engines!

No worries.
Nice one, enjoy.

[monty94]

Not sure if any of my ramblings help (or further confuse?) but I encourage you to continue your interest.

Very helpful, I always enjoy reading your posts and actually came across another of your post raving about the 1xAA + AA LE on the Haiku. That has swayed me and I've gone ahead to order an AA Haiku with Don. I did opt for the osram LED as I'm curious about it and we're spoilt for choice popular Cree. But then of course the cree are popular for a reason, so I might regret the osram?

I do already own a Mule 1x123 with 3S 119V. If I do feel like it, can I swap the 123pak and 3S 119V into the Haiku head and effectively have a Haiku 123 w/ 3S 119V? Will the reflector in the Haiku be compatible such that the result is exactly the same as if I'd other that configuration new from Don? And vice versa, if I swapped over the 1xAA w/ AA Osram into the Mule, will it be the same?

p.s Does that mean I could also then mix the 1xAA pak with the 3S 119V + Haiku (or Mule) head and be able to run 14500 cells? And would a 3S 119V + 123pak allow me to run CR123 primary?

[F89]

Very helpful, I always enjoy reading your posts and actually came across another of your post raving about the 1xAA + AA LE on the Haiku. That has swayed me and I've gone ahead to order an AA Haiku with Don. I did opt for the osram LED as I'm curious about it and we're spoilt for choice popular Cree. But then of course the cree are popular for a reason, so I might regret the osram?

I do already own a Mule 1x123 with 3S 119V. If I do feel like it, can I swap the 123pak and 3S 119V into the Haiku head and effectively have a Haiku 123 w/ 3S 119V? Will the reflector in the Haiku be compatible such that the result is exactly the same as if I'd other that configuration new from Don? And vice versa, if I swapped over the 1xAA w/ AA Osram into the Mule, will it be the same?

p.s Does that mean I could also then mix the 1xAA pak with the 3S 119V + Haiku (or Mule) head and be able to run 14500 cells? And would a 3S 119V + 123pak allow me to run CR123 primary?

I'm glad you've enjoyed my ramblings.

Hopefully the following will answer your questions.
The 3S can run on on roughly 3 to 4.2V (exact figures can be found in the forum). This means yes to Li-ion 4.2V (16340, 16650, 14500), CR123 primary, CR123 lifepo, 2xAA lithium primary, NI-MH and even alkaline.
The AA converter can accept all of the above plus of course any flavour single AA although I wouldn't recommend going above 3V as the excess voltge is clipped as heat, but single CR123 primary or 2XAA etc are fine. I personally use mine for single AA NI-MH or lithium primary.

Regarding LE changes on the Haiku, the main consideration is the reflector type. As far as I know the 119V, XPG and Osram flat all use the XPG reflector.
Seating and centring, if necessary, require you to remove the lens to manipulate the reflector. This is quite easy but dare I say easily stuffed up if you're not careful or considered in your operation. I've played with these things a stack of times so it's no big deal to me but could be quite daunting for some? Anyway I'll call that an advice warning of sorts.

You made an excellent choice with the AA Haiku, the Osram will be a throwy little low power light for sure. My tastes lean towards the 119V or perhaps XPG2 for that configuration.

I read your PM, I don't use face.... but I'm happy to answer questions or guide/provide tips to get things sorted to the best of my ability for those interested, providing I'm about that is.
Good to see some goings on in the McGizmo thread, the most important one that is. Been meaning to get some new pics up some time.

Thought I'd better add a couple of points regarding LE swaps, first off all Haiku reflectors use a tiny o-ring in their base to insulate from the MCPCB and more importantly its contacts. Secondly, Don adds some kapton tape on the contacts as an extra precaution. Thirdly, the pads (contacts) on the MCPCB need to be soldered towards the outside to clear the reflector base (often LEs made for Mules and Sundrops are soldered centrally which would require alteration).
And finally, I just considered that I've been banging on in Rush's Hive thread and cluttering it up so perhaps should have done so in a different section

[jon_slider]

I'm glad you've enjoyed my ramblings.

I also appreciate your comments.
Im starting to research which sundrop configuration to buy from Don
we started with a cr123 body, 119 with Hive

but when I asked about moddability to sw45k, he suggested the xp-g2 for the contact pads

since I can reflow, or replace mcpcbs, Im a bit more curious to see the 119v.. before deciding whether to mod to sw45k

then I wanted to explore AA Eneloop option (no interest in 14500)

can you post a photo side by side of 119 and sw45k

I welcome your comments, since you know the sw45k well.
It is my favorite.

my interest in the sundrop is for the beam shape, and I require high cri and high r9, w duv below bbl, and access to sublumen modes without PWM

so Im holding off from buying Hive until I hear sublumen without flicker is possible

also wondering, what are the lumen levels of an sw45k on "standard 3S modes, and standard Hive modes"

I have not yet found any lumen tables for Gizmo LED/driver/battery configs

links welcome

[K2-bk-bl-rd]

In my experience the tint on the 119v, looks nearly identical to the sw45! It has a very nice, slightly rosy tint.

[jon_slider]

In my experience the tint on the 119v, looks nearly identical to the sw45! It has a very nice, slightly rosy tint.

thanks

almost pulled the trigger, but when it came time to pay.. the sticker shock held me back..

my concern, beyond price, is the ring around the XRU beam..

[Jfowler]

I bought my Haiku with a HIVE driver in December. I used it in stock form for a few weeks, and was very happy, but felt I was not getting the full experience without learning how to utilize the different options this driver offers.

Ill be clear about something - this was my first attempt at learning how to program a custom light. I have never used a soldering iron, and I don’t speak “toggle” or “flash”.

I read this thread through a few times, and read RUSH’s operating guide several times. None of it will really click until you just solder that jumper closed, sort out the toggle, and see the flash sequence. I actually got the programming functions much quicker than I figured out the toggle sequence to easily get into programming mode.

To keep this post brief as possible, my point is simply that novice users (like me) should not be intimidated by something that seems complex at surface level. To relate it to a similar hobby, I felt like learning how to program my Haiku was akin to learning how to clean and sharpen my Sebenza. If someone is stuck, ask a question and I’ll see if I can translate my experiences.

For the record, I am currently running a XP-L HI (4200k) Haiku with 16650 battery pak. I set the HIVE driver to turn off memory, and flipped it to the three level setting.

[Slumber Pass]

Congrats on nailing the programming! A good alternative to soldering the jumper is using pencil graphite. I mostly use my Haiku as a two mode (no memory) light.

[Jfowler]

Congrats on nailing the programming! A good alternative to soldering the jumper is using pencil graphite. I mostly use my Haiku as a two mode (no memory) light.

Thanks! I started with the graphite trick, and it absolutely got me into the programming mode - but it only worked like 1 in 20 times. I couldn’t tell if it was my lack of toggle skills or poor conductivity, so I eliminated the possibility of poor conductivity by soldering the gap.

I had much better success post solder (probably batting around .500), but unsure if it came down to the solder joint or my improved timing. Either way, in my experience with this driver, the problem solving got easier when I could eliminate a variable.

[wade11a]

For the record, I am currently running a XP-L HI (4200k) Haiku with 16650 battery pak. I set the HIVE driver to turn off memory, and flipped it to the three level setting.

Do you have a picture of your Haiku with the 16650 battery pack? I have been considering getting a 16650 pack for the light I have on the way.
Glad you got the programing figured out. I had Don solder the bridge on my light so when I get it I can play around with the programing.

[Jfowler]

Here is a pic.

https://imgur.com/gallery/g50c43R

It is about exactly 5” in length.

I am thinking about getting a 1x123 pack for it just for tradition. If the McGizmo collection grows, the 16650 will probably take on lego duty, and I’ll spec the future lights with 1x123 packs. The 16650 pack looks great in pictures I have seen with Mahi and Sundrop heads.

[wade11a]

Here is a pic.

https://imgur.com/gallery/g50c43R

It is about exactly 5” in length.

I am thinking about getting a 1x123 pack for it just for tradition. If the McGizmo collection grows, the 16650 will probably take on lego duty, and I’ll spec the future lights with 1x123 packs. The 16650 pack looks great in pictures I have seen with Mahi and Sundrop heads.

Thanks for the picture. I like the look of that.

[Jfowler]

Can someone explain their preference for running a specific voltage foldback setting?

If it helps, I plan on running 100% rechargeable batteries in the 1x123 and the 1xAA (14500) paks.

I am really trying to grasp this one in the user guide, but I am struggling to understand which option is preferable for me. I’d love to hear a simple explanation on minimal vs optimal (vs primary) settings.

[jon_slider]

I’d love to hear a simple explanation on minimal vs optimal (vs primary) settings.

since you plan to use LiIon, focus on that first

the difference is that optimal warns that the battery is low, sooner, which gives you less runtime, but prolongs the lifetime of the battery

Good call on the voltage thresholds for the output reduction for different cell types. The reduction steps span a certain voltage range, for all but the 2x NiMH/alkaline that range is 0.5 V.
I've added this information to the manual.

Setting / Cell type	Voltage threshold first reduction step	Voltage of last reduction step
1: Li-Ion minimal	3.0 V	2.5 V
2: Li-Ion optimal	3.3 V	2.8 V
3: Lithium primary	2.5 V	2.0 V
4: 2x NiMH/Alkaline	2.1 V	1.9 V

the other battery chemistries have different operating voltages than LiIon.. dont worry about it, unless you use those cells

[Jfowler]

I’ve stared at that chart. I have the full user guide book marked.

So optimal sacrifices run time in favor of protecting the longevity of the actual battery... I have to admit, I’m not overly concerned about the lifespan of a rechargeable battery.

I was really hoping it was like a maximized output w/ sacrificed runtime vs sacrificed output for maximum run time sort of thing.

[desert.snake]

Another interesting observation for levels up to 25 ma at 1000 ma setting - that is, 1-4 level flickers, 5 does not flicker, 1 and 2 levels go out on their own after a while, and they all go out if I am outside in cool weather. When turned on, a flash is visible, but there is no further light. My friend suggested to me that most likely the extinction is due to the parameters of the diode, in the cold, the resistance of LED increases and the current current is not enough for ignition. I tested it in a freezer (-18 C) at level 3 (12 ma), which burns well indoors and then at level 4 and 5 - nobody turns on, only a faint first flash is visible, but when I put it in warm water, it starts to shine again.

Maybe this is due to a specific instance of the LED?

I have XML2. For example, Nichia indicates in coils voltage grades, Cree does not indicate it, I did not find this in the datasheet, but it is quite possible that the Cree have a similar spread of characteristics, and if there is a coincidence of an inappropriate diode and cold weather, it will go out on small current.


Or it may be due to the fact that in the driver itself, because of the cold, something freezes and it does not produce the current that it should?

Or does both the LED and the driver freeze?



it would also be nice to move the setup steps 14 15 between 4 and 5 steps, so it's really more convenient than going through all the steps if you just want to change the memory type and velocity