CB Radio-A [Preventable] Wireless Wasteland

ericjohn

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All of the wireless communications that have government regulations are for the most part are properly enforced-except ONE. And that is Citizen's Band Radio. The government hardly ever enforces the rules that are required on the books and it is a shame. Many (but not all) users of the service deliberately interfere with each other and use illegal amounts of power. Also many people just say random repetitive foolishness over the radio. There's a complete lack of courtesy, sensibility and refinement. It wouldn't really be that hard to enforce the rules that forbid such behaviors. SO, why is there no enforcement? CB could be a very good thing for the people especially in emergencies, but also an alternative to Internet social media. But there is no enforcement. By the way this rant comes in the wake of my wife and I testing out some portable units but people with illegal amounts of RF power were drowning us out.

I will give some examples on how the other communications mediums available are decently and efficiently enforced.

Marine VHF radio is strictly and [for the most part] successfully regulated and it is just as easy as CB (sometimes easier) for anyone to purchase equipment that operates on its frequencies.

FRS (Family Radio Service) is basically a UHF version of CB, but because of the low power output and limited [factual and real not advertised] range on these radios, so it's harder to deliberately cause widespread interference. The government purposely put these restrictions on the design on the equipment. I am willing to bet that this was put into place because of the anarchy-like atmosphere that doomed 27 MHz CB.

Commercial, Ecclesiastical and Philanthropic broadcast (terrestrial, over the air) radio and television are heavily regulated by the government over the content of their material, but also the technical aspects of making sure broadcasters don't interfere (be it deliberately or accidentally) with each other.

Business Band radio (wide area at least) is carefully regulated that their equipment doesn't interfere with anyone and that no outsider hacks their repeaters. However with Itinerant and other simplex on site Business Band radios, interference happens from time to time, but it is only slightly worse than when it happens on FRS.

VHF Airband Radio is EXTREMELY regulated and EXTREMELY enforced. I've been listening to aircraft communications on and off since 2003 and I have never once heard an outsider talking on the reserved frequencies. I've never heard any chit chat type conversations amongst aviators or with the controllers and the ground crews, just strictly business. Surprisingly though (and especially because of online shopping) a VHF Airband transceiver is fairly easy for anyone to purchase, it just costs a much prettier penny than your average CB, Business Band, FRS or Marine VHF radio.

There is MURS (Multi Use Radio Service.) This is a VHF version of CB created in November of 2000 from five recycled business band frequencies. It also has half the [legal] power limit of 27 MHz CB. 2 watts effective radiated power to be exact. MURS requires no license or fee of any kind. There are many different modulation schemes to choose from and play with which means there is plenty of potential, especially if one doesn't feel like getting a ham license. Unfortunately type accepted equipment is required and there aren't many type accepted radios to choose from. Also it is not widely known of and one has to do an extensive and informed online search in order to get the right radio. I never really understood why MURS transceivers aren't sold at Radio Shack or Best Buy. I detect a HUGE shortcoming and discrepancy on all parties involved with decision making on the manufacturing and retail availability of equipment used in this potentially wonderful service.

Finally, there is Amateur AKA Ham Radio. This service was meant for people who enjoy experimenting with wireless communications and also proves itself indispensable in times of disaster. There are frequency bands for this service in all parts of the radio spectrum and a plethora and modulation schemes to try and play with. However to enjoy this service, one must have competence in electronics and operating procedure and a sensible degree of ethics (at least pertaining to the use of his/her communications behavior.) I myself have been a licensed (Technician Class) Amateur Radio operator for a little over 10 years, but I don't like to make that fact well known. I've been listening to it on my scanner since October of 2002 and any time someone abused his/her privileges, was unethical in any way pertaining to communications on the said service or if an outsider had hacked the frequency, the problem was dealt with quickly and efficiently. To begin with it was rare that something like this had happened. However, one would think it would be more common for someone who is unauthorized on a ham radio frequency to be using it or causing interference, but it was rare. And guess what? Ham radio equipment can be purchased just as easily as CB, Marine VHF radio, FRS, or Airband.

So, why are all of these other radio services easily enforced, but 27 MHz CB radio is a wireless wasteland. I've have proven that it should be too hard to enforce the rules, so why are these rules not being enforced? Questions. Comments. Complaints.
 

Steve K

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only two things come to mind...

1. things haven't changed much regarding abuse of CB in 20 or 30 years.

2. people still use CB? I thought people just used cell phones now.

Hard to say why the FCC doesn't crack down more on people exceeding the limits on CB radiated power. I'm sure that mobile users are intrinsically more difficult to track down than a fixed transmitter. What would be a practical way to check for illegal emissions on vehicles.. have FCC vehicles equipped with antennas and spectrum analyzers cruising the interstates? Maybe just perform spot checks at truck stops?

I would also guess that the FCC has a very limited budget, like most other government agencies, and especially like other regulatory agencies. Some folks in Washington don't like regulatory agencies and cut their budgets when possible. With a lot of the radio spectrum, there are safety aspects and business aspects, and impacting either one can produce some bad press. I don't think that the same can be said for 27MHz CB (but perhaps I'm wrong).
 

PoliceScannerMan

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One of the best moments in my 11 years or so of scanning was two pilots on a Air band side channel talking about how may flight attendants they've "courted". Lol.

I don't disagree with you about CB being annoying, but I think the last thing we need is more government regulation.
 

ericjohn

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One of the best moments in my 11 years or so of scanning was two pilots on a Air band side channel talking about how may flight attendants they've "courted". Lol.

I don't disagree with you about CB being annoying, but I think the last thing we need is more government regulation.
I'm NOT asking for more regulation; I'm simply asking to enforce what is already on the books...
 

ericjohn

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only two things come to mind...

1. things haven't changed much regarding abuse of CB in 20 or 30 years.

2. people still use CB? I thought people just used cell phones now.

Hard to say why the FCC doesn't crack down more on people exceeding the limits on CB radiated power. I'm sure that mobile users are intrinsically more difficult to track down than a fixed transmitter. What would be a practical way to check for illegal emissions on vehicles.. have FCC vehicles equipped with antennas and spectrum analyzers cruising the interstates? Maybe just perform spot checks at truck stops?

I would also guess that the FCC has a very limited budget, like most other government agencies, and especially like other regulatory agencies. Some folks in Washington don't like regulatory agencies and cut their budgets when possible. With a lot of the radio spectrum, there are safety aspects and business aspects, and impacting either one can produce some bad press. I don't think that the same can be said for 27MHz CB (but perhaps I'm wrong).
It's the fixed base stations with the tall antennas and thousand watt illegal amplifiers that are causing the trouble. It's also possible for some mobile stations, but not as potentially troublesome as the fixed stations. Portable units are only capable of legal power and many times they don't even put that much out. Also their antennas are extremely limited and that greatly hinders their performance. If the FCC can crackdown on trouble makers in all other services I mentioned, I just can't see why they won't enforce the CB rules that are already on the books...
 

PhotonWrangler

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I agree wholeheartedly, CB is a mess. I stopped listening a long time ago, after I turned on the radio one day and immediately heard a string of back-and-forth expletives. :shakehead

I don't think the FCC has the resources to police these bands. They're pretty much thrown up their hands and walked away, only taking note when a particularly egregious source of interference shows up. It's a sad reality. Honestly though, if they have a limited budget, I'd much prefer they spent it on enforcing the aircraft and public safety frequencies.
 

FRITZHID

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CB has been a mess since I was in my early teens.... (20 yrs ago or so).
I agree with PW, fcc has simply given up. The cost to chase these people down is not cheap, and most of the perps are broke so getting any payback from fines is a joke.
In my youth, I had quite the setup, a 2510 with extra freqs, astatic d104, tweaked and peaked, along with 2 liner amps.... Was well over legal limits (could hear me over toasters, portable phones, tv's, radios, etc.) Never had a fear of the fcc cause no-one was listening anyway. Only reason I had that set-up was cause anything legal was stomped on by everyone else. I've since grown up. I couldn't stand the Roger beeps, echoes, boingers, etc. anymore. I wasn't profane or crude, just wanted to be out of mudduck land. I can understand the need for regulation on most other bands, espc ATC, F&R, business bands etc, but I think the fcc believes that CB is a "dead" tech and not worth the trouble.
 

Steve K

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It's the fixed base stations with the tall antennas and thousand watt illegal amplifiers that are causing the trouble. <...snip...>...

thousand watt amps? holy cow! I knew that trucks used to run some high power amps, but wasn't expecting that fixed transmitters could be this big. I deal with some big amps at work for EMC testing, where we have an amp that is 1000 watts up to 1GHz, which is certainly more exotic than 27MHz, but it's a darned big amp and expensive.
 

moldyoldy

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I agree with the OP! The CB bands are widely misused with 2K watt linear amps, etc. etc.

One minor addition to the list of services: MARS. I ran a MARS station with two transmitters, each with a 2K watt linear amp, in Germany in addition to my normal military duties. lots of interesting events. I eventually held a General Class R/T license. I renewed it repeatedly, but eventually that converted to a lifetime license, supposedly. no matter, although I have the license paper, I have not used that knowledge in some time, too long. I did enjoy the RF spectrums.

As for cleaning up the CB bands, I heard from a passenger pilot about one time (B-707 days) that he was going up the coast from LA at about 20K ft and the flight engineer was tuning thru the bands to get ready for the Pacific run where only HF is usable - at least back then. So he tuned thru the CB bands and happened to stop on Ch-19. Lots of language that was so regrettable, that both pilot & copilot turned around and looked at the flight engineer, who responded with something to the effect of "I'll take care of it". So on Ch-19, from 20K ft, the Flight Engineer flipped over to Transmit and said "This is God. Clean it up down there". Ch-19 fell totally silent - nothing. Finally after over 30 seconds of dead silence on Ch-19, some dude comes on line and says: "Man, that was Wall to Wall!". They flew on in relative peace and quiet....
 
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FRITZHID

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Lol.... At one point, I had a 1/5/10k watt amp. Had a 220v dryer plug and the house lights dimmed when I key'd up. Had 4 "super penetrater" base station antennas in my backyard. Taped floro tubes to them, lit like daytime.
Today, cb is the black sheep. Leave it be.
If EOTWAWKI happens, the filter will naturally happen. Unless your neighbor has one and is coming over your toaster.... Chill. Let it go.
 

Str8stroke

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Lol.... At one point, I had a 1/5/10k watt amp. Had a 220v dryer plug and the house lights dimmed when I key'd up. Had 4 "super penetrater" base station antennas in my backyard. Taped floro tubes to them, lit like daytime.
Today, cb is the black sheep. Leave it be.
If EOTWAWKI happens, the filter will naturally happen. Unless your neighbor has one and is coming over your toaster.... Chill. Let it go.

My kinda guy. The old saying is, Don't cry, BUY! Hence: CB = Constantly Buying.

"While I am steppin out the Bayou with this big ole maul down while they are rollin a gate on me in Cali. Cause the gate don't lie" I heard that on the Super Bowl once.

Some of these guys are very serious about there CB set ups. Legal or not. Don't believe me? Search CB keydown videos on youtube. Get ready to see mobile stations with over 25KW. Suburbans & their motors built just to Keydown on some poor mudduck. They may have six plus high output alternators just to keep things running.

There are even a few millionaires and famous people who are into CBs. Don't believe it? Search up Prime Minister No Excuses on the Bowl. The Bowl refers to Channel 6. Its the big boys play ground. There are base stations running well in excess of 50KW into custom built 8 element beam antennas on 100 ft towers.

Lots of amazing stuff out there if your into that.

Just like people think were are nuts for loving lights, many think they are nuts for loving CB radio. So you say its against the law? Yup, so is speeding and speeding is more dangerous, but I bet many of us here do it daily. :)

FCC = Broke. They have cellphones to hack, sorry cellphones to worry about. I believe that is their main transceiver focus these days.
 

Lynx_Arc

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As someone who was once in CB radios back in the 80s I thought I would share with you what went on back then. The majority of people were not using a lot of power many were just "tuned up" regular radio setups with amplified power microphones on them that instead of putting out 4 watts and modulating perhaps another half a watt when you speak and with normal microphones and standard mobile antennas these radios on a clear and uncluttered frequency could get perhaps 10-15 miles at most with a better quality antenna that could be stretched some and a power microphone a little more and tweak the radio to modulate a lot louder more than that. If you put a decent quality ground plane antenna up on a 40 foot pole (legal antenna height was 60 feet at the time) With my base station tweaked and a high end power microphone D104 TUP9 I could reach about 35-50 miles depending on the height and size of the antenna on the radio on the other end. The furthest I have reached without skip on legal power is about 100 miles and on the other end was a station with a powerful 4 element beam on an 80 foot tower on a hill. A quality station setup can literally drown out (stomp all over) most mobile setups and seem like they are running power because the larger 22 foot tall 5/8 wave ground plane antennas effectively increase the 4 watts to about 20 or so.
I've used illegal linear amplifiers both tube and transistor type before from about 20 to 150 watts and on decent setups they can do a lot. There are often people on CB that try and interfere with others and get very obnoxious and say things that are very indecent I've many times during the day keyed up over such people so others wouldn't have to listen to them as there aren't any moderators nor does the FCC rarely intervene unless someone complains about the radios interfering with other electronic equipment. As for the power output of mobile setups about the highest you can use is 2kw or so and that would be using twin antennas as most mobile antennas cannot handle even 1000 watts I own a top of the line magnet mount antenna that can handle 1250 watts with silver plated contacts. A 1000 watt linear takes over 80 amps from your system and a 25Kw transmitter (I doubt a mobile one exists) would take about 2000 amps to power it one would have to have a half dozen batteries and 5-10 alternators putting out 200-400 amps and some huge cables on one linear amp or would have to have several of them well balanced paralleled together with very close impedences in and out of it would be a huge task. I've personally heard of 1000 watt mobil linears and had a 75 watt one and it was very useful for talking 50 miles away or when the radio conditions allowed for skip conditions. Skip is when your radio transmission bounces off the atmosphere sometimes more than once even and you can get people from all over the world. With only a legal base station I talked to people in a half dozen countries and most states including hawaii. It is when skip conditions are best that it makes communication locally on CB a hard task in that mobiles can rarely get over 5 miles on some channels at certain times of the day and stations perhaps 10 miles or so. It is these when these conditions are best that having a little illegal power can help with just normal transmission distances and without it your range is very limited. If you were to get into trouble when skip conditions are good you may be unable to get help unless a truck driver was passing close by. I haven't been on CB for over 15 years and since the advent of cell phones there is a lot less reason to need one. Even when CB was somewhat popular there were a lot of people who were lets say.... low class on it using it to do "business" like thieves and hookers and some liked to get on it and torment others and cause problems too. There was some good people but many on there I met were not people you want to be good friends with. One person I met I know broke into my car and stole speakers I had and sold me a radio for cheap that I'm all but sure it was one he stole from someone. I didn't make the connection for months till I realized he was on the air almost all the time from home and always selling radio stuff.

As far as CBs having 8 element beams..... that would take a lot of engineering to handle it would have to be custom made as the largest bean I remember was a moonraker 6 element and the think was huge taking a powerful rotor setup just to turn it most beam setups were moonraker 4s even I think if I remember correctly they are about 60 feet long.
 

Str8stroke

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"A 1000 watt linear takes over 80 amps from your system and a 25Kw transmitter (I doubt a mobile one exists) would take about 2000 amps to power it one would have to have a half dozen batteries and 5-10 alternators putting out 200-400 amps and some huge cables on one linear amp or would have to have several of them well balanced paralleled together with very close impedences in and out of it would be a huge task."

Many run 2 or 3 amplifiers. In a 2 amp set up, the first one is commonly referred to as the "Driver". In reference to solid state amplifiers you will here "a 2 driving 4" or "4 driving 16" The numbers correspond to "pills" aka transistors.
You will here things like, "cruising on this little driver". That means they are just running the 2 pill amp. When the discussions get heated, they will "drop the maul". Usually meaning they are putting on the "big box" and running both amplifiers with the aid of the Maul. See below for reference.
Getting 2000 amps in a mobile is Huge Task and hard to believe: X Force

Just call them if you need 2000 amps. They WILL build it. I promise.

These people will spend more money on CB gear than some folks, including themselves do on a house. Nuts, yup. But they do. The big guns custom build just about every part of there systems.

Want that 50K base station?? Call the Wizard. If you got the cash, and I mean a lot of cash, he can deliver. I promise.

I don't condone this activity. In fact it is totally nuts IMHO. I removed the links. But folks can google.

EDIT: Prime Minister is rumored to run close to 100KW at times.
 
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ericjohn

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How can they not have the resources to police these bands, they aggressively police all other radio bands?

There are other agencies that along with the FCC that police the aircraft, marine and public safety frequencies.

I seriously don't think it would be too difficult. I was in high school volunteering parking at a foot ball game (back in 2003) and spoke directly with an FCC agent who was policing all 14 FRS channels and their 38 PL tones as well.

It really can't be that hard to do and there are many hams who I am sure would help the FCC police the CB traffic.
 

ericjohn

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That's easy then confiscate the equipment. If they are so broke, they won't be able to afford a new rig over and over again.

Those people putting out illegal power from God knows how many states away, completely jammed up channel 11 and prevented my wife and I from communicating a few blocks away on portables.

By the way, those linear amplifiers are basically a black market item.

CB has potential for all citizens to use and not just hams, especially in case of disasters whether natural or man made (with the exception of an EMP blast.) It could be a decent form of low tech social media (like it was before everyone had internet) if only it would be enforced. There is only one rule on CB I disagree with and that is I believe FM should be allowed as well as AM and SSB. But for whatever reason FM is forbidden. Other countries use FM, why can't the US allow it?

Sometimes I want to throw my hands in the air, give up and say give the CB frequencies to the search and rescue services for use in rural/mountain/desert areas. They can also use encrypted APCO 25 for modulation in case of having to transmit confidential medical information. But I believe that the people as well should have access to these frequencies, simply because of their physical characteristics.
 

ericjohn

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I agree with the OP! The CB bands are widely misused with 2K watt linear amps, etc. etc.

One minor addition to the list of services: MARS. I ran a MARS station with two transmitters, each with a 2K watt linear amp, in Germany in addition to my normal military duties. lots of interesting events. I eventually held a General Class R/T license. I renewed it repeatedly, but eventually that converted to a lifetime license, supposedly. no matter, although I have the license paper, I have not used that knowledge in some time, too long. I did enjoy the RF spectrums.

As for cleaning up the CB bands, I heard from a passenger pilot about one time (B-707 days) that he was going up the coast from LA at about 20K ft and the flight engineer was tuning thru the bands to get ready for the Pacific run where only HF is usable - at least back then. So he tuned thru the CB bands and happened to stop on Ch-19. Lots of language that was so regrettable, that both pilot & copilot turned around and looked at the flight engineer, who responded with something to the effect of "I'll take care of it". So on Ch-19, from 20K ft, the Flight Engineer flipped over to Transmit and said "This is God. Clean it up down there". Ch-19 fell totally silent - nothing. Finally after over 30 seconds of dead silence on Ch-19, some dude comes on line and says: "Man, that was Wall to Wall!". They flew on in relative peace and quiet....

Thank you for your service!

That's a funny story and I chuckled quite a bit, although I don't advocate anyone pretending to be God. At least it gave some peace.

Channel 19 (I'm assuming you mean CB channel 19) mostly has local traffic, but you will frequently hear words that can make a [fill in the blank] blush.
 

ericjohn

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thousand watt amps? holy cow! I knew that trucks used to run some high power amps, but wasn't expecting that fixed transmitters could be this big. I deal with some big amps at work for EMC testing, where we have an amp that is 1000 watts up to 1GHz, which is certainly more exotic than 27MHz, but it's a darned big amp and expensive.

I'm not sure if there are 1 KW amps on trucks, but I do believe there are some for base stations. I have heard of some CB transceivers[with these amps installed] causing nearby light bulbs to turn on and other phenomena.

These KW amps are either designed for VHF low band and modified for CB or they are a completely illegal imported black market item.

I was testing out a 4 Watt portable (with stock antenna) in my living room and when I keyed up, it caused my wife's touch lamp to come on.
 

ericjohn

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I'm ignorant at times, so what exactly is EOTWAWKI?

I'm just saying CB should be cleaned up so it can be appropriate for everyone to use. If these regulations are properly enforced it might actually bring about a new generation of smarter and more technically inclined kids. But this can only happen if the rules are properly enforced. There is plenty of potential for CB if people were made to follow rules that are already on the books.
 

ericjohn

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"A 1000 watt linear takes over 80 amps from your system and a 25Kw transmitter (I doubt a mobile one exists) would take about 2000 amps to power it one would have to have a half dozen batteries and 5-10 alternators putting out 200-400 amps and some huge cables on one linear amp or would have to have several of them well balanced paralleled together with very close impedences in and out of it would be a huge task."

Many run 2 or 3 amplifiers. In a 2 amp set up, the first one is commonly referred to as the "Driver". In reference to solid state amplifiers you will here "a 2 driving 4" or "4 driving 16" The numbers correspond to "pills" aka transistors.
You will here things like, "cruising on this little driver". That means they are just running the 2 pill amp. When the discussions get heated, they will "drop the maul". Usually meaning they are putting on the "big box" and running both amplifiers with the aid of the Maul. See below for reference.
Getting 2000 amps in a mobile is Huge Task and hard to believe: X Force

Just call them if you need 2000 amps. They WILL build it. I promise.

These people will spend more money on CB gear than some folks, including themselves do on a house. Nuts, yup. But they do. The big guns custom build just about every part of there systems.

Want that 50K base station?? Call the Wizard. If you got the cash, and I mean a lot of cash, he can deliver. I promise.

I don't condone this activity. In fact it is totally nuts IMHO. I removed the links. But folks can google.

EDIT: Prime Minister is rumored to run close to 100KW at times.


And it's that kind of foolishness that needs to be done away with. It has always been forbidden, but somehow it is rampant.

And because it's rampant it ruins a nice technology for everyone else.
 
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