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Thread: Alkaline pressure buildup

  1. #1

    Default Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by protodoc View Post
    I had pressure building up my AAA twice. No flights or changes of altitude. The first time I could barely get the head unscrewed it was so tight from the pressure. The "pop" was pretty intense when it finally opened. The battery must have outgased somehow.
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewBie View Post
    Gore makes a cloth that will not pass water molecules, that can be put over the hole. There is also a ceramic that will do the same thing, and is more durable. Neither will pass straight water.
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheDark View Post
    you don't have to sacrifice waterproofness to fix it. All you need is a self energizing seal, which allows a seal from one direction only. Check the tailcap seal of a Mini Maglite (only the minimag has it)
    These quotes are from 2004. Does any other light have something like that these days? Maybe even a button you could press that will release pressure? My Fenix E05 has to be twisted on and off and the pressure made it feel like the seal wasn't seated correctly or the threads were wearing out, but the pop when I changed the battery made me realize it's the pressure.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Str8stroke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Are you hugely worried about this?? You ask: "Does any other light have something like that these days?" What light were they referring to?

    Pelican sells several lights designed for this scenario. Google the Pelican Sabre 2000

    I am sure there are others. Probably safety or diving lights that need specialized venting capabilities.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    The feel is very wrong and I'm probably wearing out the o-ring when this happens. Even before I'm sure there's a problem, there's probably a slight problem that's wearing out the o-ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str8stroke View Post
    You ask: "Does any other light have something like that these days?" What light were they referring to?
    I quoted InTheDark mentioning the Mini Maglite has such a feature, but I know this forum is largely anti-Maglite so I was wondering about other options.

    And the reason I'm into alkalines is because I think they're the safest. I also don't use flashlights regularly so rechargables aren't as important.
    Last edited by Borad; 10-26-2015 at 05:50 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Pelican is looking good for everything but a keychain flashlight, but their website is driving me crazy. So much selection and not enough organization. Good to know they do vents though.

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* Str8stroke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Borad View Post
    mentioning the Mini Maglite has such a feature, but I know this forum is largely anti-Maglite so I was wondering about other options.
    SAY WHAT!!! Many many members here love Maglites. Perhaps not in the stock format, but Maglites, I would say, have a strong cult like following here.

    Have you considered Energizer Lithium batteries?? This may solve your issues. I use them almost 100% in my lights. Especially the Copper ones.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Str8stroke View Post
    Have you considered Energizer Lithium batteries?? This may solve your issues. I use them almost 100% in my lights. Especially the Copper ones.
    I read that they're not allowed in the luggage compartment of planes. I'm trying to play it safe. Maybe I'll routinely start to open my Fenix E05 to release the pressure. I have a 2D waterproof flashlight without this problem, but ironically it's only the large ones that Pelican makes with valves so maybe I'll stop carrying a keychain light when the Fenix dies.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    I read that they're not allowed in the luggage compartment of planes.
    Lithium-ion rechargeable isn't permitted as bulk cargo on passenger planes. Cargo-only aircraft, it's permitted. Lithium ion is permitted on passenger planes, provided they are in operational devices.

    Energizer Ultimate Lithium primaries just recently received "intrinsically safe" cert, IIRC. Those aren't rechargeable.

    Search engine for Energizer Ultimate Lithium intrinsically safe approval. It returns several nice PDFs which we aren't supposed to directly hotlink here.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    I don't think lithiums are safe for the Fenix E05. The specs of the newer version of the Fenix E05, the one with three settings (Shouldn't they change the model number when they add two brightness levels?), say "Batteries: One 1.5V AAA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery." It has "IPX-8, underwater 2m" waterproofing and enough pressure built up in the battery compartment to make it hard to twist the bezel. There was a pop when I opened it. I don't want to put a lithium battery under that kind of pressure especially when the manufacturer recommends alkalines.

    That said, I noticed that I put a lithium in my E05. I think I'll remove it.

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Interesting thread here !




    As CPF member More Vampires stated,
    here is a PDF file of the recent approval rating
    for Energizer L91 & L92 batteries.



    http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/Lithi...c%20Safety.pdf


    BTW --
    I've been using Energizer Lithium L92 cells in my two
    Fenix E05 (2014 edition) flashlights since July 2014.

    Never a trace of problem or difficulty !
    Just * LOVE * this combination of light & battery.



    Just FYI

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    I have seen this before with Fenix. The FenixLight web page for the Fenix E05 (2014 Edition) lists only Alkaline and NiMH. If you download the User Manual, however, you will see that lithium primary is also approved. Check the Battery Specifications section.

    Fenix E05 (2014 Edition) User Manual

    The manual for the original E05 is no longer available on the web site. Forced to guess, I would say it too can take lithium primaries.
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  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* Str8stroke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Energizer Lithiums not safe or allowed?? Yeah yeah yeah I have them, since they first came out, in probably 50 lights that run on primary cells. Never had a problem of any kind. Also, I have flown dozens of times. Never has any TSA agent ever ever asked me to open my keychain light and show them what kind of battery it is. Even if you did, when the common person reads Energizer, they are not going to even know the difference.

    Story Footnote: My Cousin who is a Male Flight Attendant in the US, (no jokes please) now flies every day with a SOG AA Dark Energy DE-03, and a SF Outdoorsman AA with Energizer lithiums. He carries 4 spare AA Energizer Lithiums in his carry on luggage, that gets scanned all day every day. He has never reported a problem to me. In fact, several pilots and TSA folks have commented positively on his lights. He has no problems, maybe cause he is a flight attendant?? Maybe not?
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    The manual for the original E05 is no longer available on the web site. Forced to guess, I would say it too can take lithium primaries.
    I still have the packaging and manual that came with it. I even created a PDF of the manual but I'm afraid to upload it and link to it. Fenix apparently doesn't want it published.

    Oh, and it says "Uses 1.5 V AAA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery" with nothing about lithium.

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Borad View Post
    I still have the packaging and manual that came with it. I even created a PDF of the manual but I'm afraid to upload it and link to it. Fenix apparently doesn't want it published.

    Oh, and it says "Uses 1.5 V AAA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery" with nothing about lithium.
    Quote Originally Posted by moldyoldy View Post
    I was speaking from experience. I decided to risk my $22 E05 light to see how it reacted to 10440s. The output did not even double, and the intensity started dropping after about 20-30 seconds of run time on the 10440. I suspect that the optic was discoloring even though the outside of the head was not hot. fried.
    Personally, it runs L92 just fine. In fact every E05 I have on hand [about 8] are feed an exclusive diet of L92s

  14. #14

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    While entering a store one day I had a clip on light in my pocket with the supplied (alkaline) AA's that I had used about all of 20 minutes and it was earlier that day.

    Suddenly I feel my pocket getting warm, then real warm..
    I pull out the light and it's all buldging like road kill..."whut-thuh!?!?"

    I pop off the cap and toss the batteries on the ground and one had split open.
    I had bought several of that light to give away as Christmas presents and they were boxed up.

    So I'm standing in the checkout line 10 minutes later thinking "awe snap, I wonder if those other lights are about to explode all in a box tucked under my (very flamable) sofa?"

    I got home and threw every one of those batteries in the trash. None were leaking or showing any signs of duress.
    When I gave 'em away they all had brand new lithiums with a piece of plastic stopping them from turning on.

    To this day I do not know why that one burst. Best I can figure is the manufacturer had placed an old one with a new one as it's a 2 cell light.

    I'd mixed any ole alkies together for decades and had no issues.

    But not any more. If there's any doubt the ole DVM gets used.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 11-02-2015 at 05:38 PM.
    John 3:16

  15. #15

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    The possibility of something like that is why I don't feel totally comfortable with ANY battery on my person. The lower the power the safer I feel. I'm going to see if I could find a decent 1xAAAA floody.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    This what gets confusing....alkaline or NiMH or lithium. Dang near afraid to buy any of them.....

    What should we use? What's really safe?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanden View Post
    This what gets confusing....alkaline or NiMH or lithium. Dang near afraid to buy any of them.....

    What should we use? What's really safe?
    The AA and AAA Energizer Ultimate Lithiums are "intrinsically safe." Put one in an "intrinsically safe" flashlight that takes one cell only, and I think you're kind of safe. But the usual warnings still apply, including:

    •DO read the instructions on your device before installing batteries. Only use the size and type of battery specified in the instructions.
    •DO insert the batteries properly. Follow the symbols showing the correct way to position the positive (+) and negative (-) ends of the batteries.
    •DO keep battery contact surfaces clean by gently rubbing with a clean pencil eraser or cloth.
    •DO immediately remove exhausted batteries from your device and dispose of properly.
    •DO remove all batteries from the device at the same time and replace them with new batteries of the same size and type.
    •DO preserve battery life by switching off a device and removing the batteries when it’s not being used, and is not expected to be used for extended periods of time.
    •DO practice proper battery storage by keeping batteries in a cool, dry place at normal room temperature. It’s not necessary to store batteries in a refrigerator.

    • DON’T dispose of batteries in a fire — they may leak or rupture.
    • DON’T disassemble, crush, puncture, or otherwise damage batteries. This can result in leakage or rupture.
    • DON’T carry loose batteries in a pocket or purse with metal objects like coins, paper clips, etc. This can short-circuit the battery, leading to high heat or leakage.
    • DON’T recharge a battery unless it is specifically marked "rechargeable." Attempting to recharge a non-rechargeable (primary) battery could result in leakage or rupture. Don't use rechargeable alkaline batteries in nickel metal hydride battery chargers.
    • DON’T store batteries or battery-powered devices in hot places — elevated temperatures can lead to capacity loss, leakage or rupture.
    • DON’T mix old and new batteries, or mix different types or makes of batteries. This can cause leakage or rupture, resulting in personal injury or property damage.
    • DON’T give batteries to young children.
    I was looking for an intrinsically safe light that met my other requirements and found none. I think I'll stick with my Fenix E05.

    ...what's interesting is that there are intrinsically safe flashlights that only take alkaline batteries, and I can't find any intrinsically safe alkaline batteries. But I think the main issue with alkaline batteries is occasional leakage, not explosion.
    Last edited by Borad; 11-02-2015 at 07:37 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Thanks...looks like I'm looking for some Enigizer lithium....

  19. #19

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanden View Post
    Thanks...looks like I'm looking for some Enigizer lithium....
    As long as your light could take them. I feel like the lithium I'm using is itself safe but I'm not confident it won't overheat part of the light.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Borad View Post
    I still have the packaging and manual that came with it. I even created a PDF of the manual but I'm afraid to upload it and link to it. Fenix apparently doesn't want it published.

    Oh, and it says "Uses 1.5 V AAA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery" with nothing about lithium.
    The manual I linked above says the same thing. Later on, however, in a section entitled "Battery Specifications," it says that lithium primaries are usable.

    Does your manual have a Battery Specifications section?
    Last edited by KeepingItLight; 11-03-2015 at 03:51 AM.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    The manual I linked above says the same thing. Later on, however, in a section entitled "Battery Specifications," it says that lithium primaries are usable.

    Does your manual have a Battery Specifications section?
    Just a technical parameters section with no mention of lithium. I entered the serial number at http://www.fenixlight.com/sn_local.aspx and it tells me the LED is a CREE XP-E R2, which is consistent with what the manual says about the LED so its not like they sent me a manual for the earlier version that had the different LED.

    WTH, I uploaded the manual here.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanden View Post
    This what gets confusing....alkaline or NiMH or lithium. Dang near afraid to buy any of them.....

    What should we use? What's really safe?
    Energizer ultimate lithium in a quality single battery light. It's safer than candles and oil lamps.

    Don't buy alkaline, you just ruin gear when they leak. Eneloop NiMH is outstanding.

    Garbage in, garbage out. Skip the garbage and go for quality. I'm carrying 3 lithium-ion and 1 Eneloop at the moment. I sleep fine.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Borad View Post
    Just a technical parameters section with no mention of lithium. I entered the serial number at http://www.fenixlight.com/sn_local.aspx and it tells me the LED is a CREE XP-E R2, which is consistent with what the manual says about the LED so its not like they sent me a manual for the earlier version that had the different LED.

    WTH, I uploaded the manual here.
    Thanks.

    What's up with Fenix? By all reports, the E05 works great on an Energizer Advanced Lithium primary, and yet Fenix chooses to keep that a secret in the manual for the 2011 E05. In the manuals for its later models, Fenix mentions lithium primary, but only after earlier omitting it when it lists NiMH and alkaline as the supported battery types.

    A fresh lithium primary will output 1.7v, but that is not a problem for most 1xAA and 1xAAA lights.
    Last edited by KeepingItLight; 11-03-2015 at 05:28 PM.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanden View Post
    Thanks...looks like I'm looking for some Enigizer lithium....
    I'm going to change my suggestion. I think alkaline is safer than any lithium battery. The good brands of lithiums can vent, and that's important, but if they vent into a well sealed flashlight with a tight battery compartment then the venting does nothing. Even energizer AA and AAA batteries, which are the "intrinsically safe" ones have this issue. I'd trust them in one of the Maglites that have a vented tail cap, or in one of the Pelicans that have a valve. Otherwise I'd feel safer with alkalines.

    I'd like details on the testing of the venting of batteries. Out in the open, I'd expect venting to prevent rupture and explosion of the battery. If they're tested inside a flashlight, I'm not sure venting matters.
    Last edited by Borad; 11-11-2015 at 10:14 PM.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* MidnightDistortions's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...erproof-lights

    Any battery could vent, just take general care with your flashlight and batteries and you'll be ok. And i would be more worried that the alkalines in a flashlight would corrode and cause the battery to get stuck in a light than a NiMH battery venting in a flashlight.
    LED Lights: ThruNite TN4A, Coast HP7, LEDLenser T7, Fenix E25, Fenix LD41, Maglite 2D, Maglite XL50, Maglite 3D (3rd Gen), AA MiniMaglite Pro+
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Alkaline pressure buildup

    I wonder what the standards are for whether a flashlight could take lithium batteries, if any. Is it vague, like "recommended battery must allow safe operation" or are there particulars? Either way I'd feel safer with an alkaline battery in a waterproof flashlight but I still wonder about the rules.

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