State of the Union

Who fulfilled their civic duties and watched the State of the Union address tonight? It was AWESOME! I got goosebumps at some parts. Dean won't stand a chance... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

I watched it. He actually did pretty well, I thought. I was pretty pumped after watching it. I was pleased to hear his comments on same-sex marriage. He sounds very much against, as am I.

I watched it and have to say that I was impressed. I didn't see anything that he brought up that he couldn't BACK up. I'm not real sure about the temporary work visa thing... I can see alot of good in it... but only if it is enforced. Otherwise, it won't be pretty. I'll reserve judgement on that one. I DO like the idea of association healthcare for small businesses! GREAT idea!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I rather think of it as the "State of the mess address". These are always pump'em up speeches that only seem to be self serving. I am still wondering who his tax breaks are working for. I haven't seen it. Guess I am just tired of hearing the talk. I don't want to know what he thinks he is going to do, I want to know what he is doing. And perhaps the TRUTH this time.
Perhaps this is why I find more interest in if a politician has done what they said they would do on the campaign trail, instead of what they are just telling me.

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Bravo25 said:
I rather think of it as the "State of the mess address". These are always pump'em up speeches that only seem to be self serving. I am still wondering who his tax breaks are working for. I haven't seen it. Guess I am just tired of hearing the talk. I don't want to know what he thinks he is going to do, I want to know what he is doing. And perhaps the TRUTH this time.
Perhaps this is why I find more interest in if a politician has done what they said they would do on the campaign trail, instead of what they are just telling me.

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Your implication is that Mr. Bush has lied in the past about stuff. I am just curious if you have any facts to back that up at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am confused as to why so many people don't like president Bush. I hear in the media about how he is "ruining" the country and how all the presidential canidates will fix all the stuff he has messed up if they get elected. So, just what has he done? I hear all this complaining, but NO facts!

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Your implication is that Mr. Bush has lied in the past about stuff. I am just curious if you have any facts to back that up at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am confused as to why so many people don't like president Bush. I hear in the media about how he is "ruining" the country and how all the presidential canidates will fix all the stuff he has messed up if they get elected. So, just what has he done? I hear all this complaining, but NO facts!

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Where are the weapons of mass destruction that we went to war, and killed 500 of our son's, daughters, husbands, wifes, mothers, and fathers for. Now before you go off on that one, I believe that Suddam needed to go as much as anybody. I only think we should've been told the truth about it. We weren't, we were lied to. Didn't we just impeach one president for lying about an affair? How did President Bush get away with this one? If morality is the issue of why we went to war why aren't we involved in other places just as bad. Say the killing fields in Cambodia back in the 60S. Maybe the Ivory Coast of today. I'll tell you that there is no profit in those.

He wants to make it okay for the illegal immigrants to stay here, slapping the face of all those that went through the process of becomming a citizen, and do things the right way.

He wants the oil industry to be exempt from clean up cost once they have destroyed the ground, and drinking water from making gasoline.

He is allowing 2000 Chineese military owned businesses to remain here in the US. Although to be fair this started long ago. However as China proclaims that its only enemy is the US, does this seem right to allow it to continue. They own the business, property, and land, yet are loyal to Chineese military, and despite the fact you can not go to China and own property. Does Norinco ring a bell? No I am not against the Chineese people. Just their government who is military ruled, and applies half of every one of our dollars spent to aim nuclear weapons this way.

He orchestrated, and signed into law the Patriot Act.(Gee I wonder how he had such a complicated document ready to go in such a short time after the event) Granted it was voted in by Congress (one could be forgiven for wondering if maybe this wasn't the greatest act of treason today).If this is the cure for our terrorism problems, why do we have constant alerts? Why have 10 flights been detained from the UK with no arrest?

These should be common knowledge, and I am not likely to go surfing around for websites that offer rock solid proof, which would be argued to not have any proof at all. These incidents have been in the news. It is just a mater of getting the news from more than just main stream media, which is better reffered to "Infotainment"

And if you notice it just isn't President Bush that I have a problem with. It is any politician that won't do what they got elected to do. He just happened to put himself out there last night.

It is your duty, not your right, or your privilage, or even just your quest for knowledge to question these things. It is your DUTY as a loyal american. Although I repect the Office of the President of the United States, my patriotism goes far beyond that.

Ok, I admit it, I didn't watch it. They played it at 10:30pm here, and I just turned the volume all the way down and went to bed before the president started droning on.

I've never gotten anything from a State of the Union speech before; why should this one be any different.

I'm not very politically oriented; I get out and vote, but that's pretty much it.

Bravo, I beleived facts were asked for, not your take on some facts. A link would be good.

What you seem to want is what everybody wants, and doesn't exist in politics.

Perhaps a bit of review from the text of last years speech is in order. A few of the words and their implications are different in what I hear bandied about quite a bit...

Lets review /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Last years speech in it's entirety is available HERE

"The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it."

Hmmm, so not, Saddam has biological weapons, but that he is not fulfilling his promise to tell the UN what he's got and where he's got it.


"The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it."

Hmmm, had the stuff to make it, but now won't prove to anyone that it's been disposed of.

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them."

Hmmm, not that he's got them, but was capable of producing them and won't tell you anything about where they are. You can't blame our own intelligence for being faulty over that either because that information comes directly from This 1999 UNSCOM report nothing that the UN and everybody else didn't already know about.

There's no lying, there isn't even any exaggeration, if anything it's quite a careful wording and a good summary of the unscom report.

If the democrats could offer a candidate who understood the war in Iraq and was willing to finish it, while still amending the patriot act by adding in some accountability and access to information I'd vote for them. But I will not vote for someone who will pull us out prematurely and necessitate us going back and doing all over again a third time. Also, any person involved in overstating, or misstating recorded facts, like the text of his speech, clearly thinks I'm too stupid to look it up and figure it out for myself. I will also not vote for, or tolerate that.

Oh, and back on topic, I think the presidents public speaking has improved greatly since he took office /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I was impressed with Bush last night. I also think giving all that's happened he has done a good job. It scares the hell out of me to think what would have happened if Gore was President after 911, and I'm from Tennessee. What's kind of funny is that Gore would have been President if he could have carried his own state in the general election. It will be interesting to see if the Democrats come up with any real issues this time around to help them regain the office.

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tkl said:
Bravo, I beleived facts were asked for, not your take on some facts. A link would be good.

What you seem to want is what everybody wants, and doesn't exist in politics.

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Those are the facts. I only added a couple of questions to promote thought. There is whole world of news sources out there. If I go and hunt them down for anyone, then I am doing the same thing the administration is doing. Pointing people the way I think they should go.

The Patriot Act alone is enough of a slap in the collective faces of the American people for me to vote against him and everyone else in congress that supported that piece of trash. To think that he had the nerve to get up there last night and say how he was protecting our freedoms and then go on to brag about passing the Patriot act! What nerve! Like I heard someone say once, "I'm glad that I don't have his nerve in my tooth!"

That was the thing that astonished me the most about the whole State of the Union address was how the sheeple applauded with all enthusiasm possible when he bragged about getting the Patriot Act passed.

That was just as though he was saying that he had to take away our freedoms in order to protect them. Well, I hope our freedoms are being kept safely somewhere and that the next president will have the courage and patriotic spirt to give them back to us and have a public burning of the Patriot Act and other such freedom devouring laws. Unless someone like a Libertarian gets elected in I don't much see it happening though, sadly.

If they really want to make me "feel" any safer then they need to actually start enforcing the death penalty and permanently getting rid of the real threats to society such as murderers, rapist and pedophilic child molesters instead of the strawmen "terrorist" which may or may not even any longer exist in any kind of potent form that could retain the power to harm us.

A little over a dozen crazy, brainwashed, camel jockeys commit suicide on airplanes and I'm supposed to put up with my freedoms being stripped away, little by little, from now on? I don't think so Mr. Bush.

I just wanted to turn the TV off right then and there after the President started bragging about the Patriot Act, but I knew that I needed to watch the rest of it in order to keep well informed, so I suffered through the rest of his brag-fest till the end.

Somehow I don't think he would have gotten nearly so much applause if the room hadn't have been packed (or should I say stacked?) predominantly with people of his own political party.

The only part of his speech that I can say that I wholeheartedly agreed with out of the whole thing was the part mentioned by This_Is_Nascar about marriage only being between a man and a woman. That is the very definition of the word marriage after all. Too bad that many politicians seem to have forgotten that these days.

i guess im the only one who isnt worried about the Patriot Act .like my dad said it wont afect those who dont do nothing wrong.i can also see ya point to.but i wont agree on youre views but i respect how you feel about the subject

Well, Raggie, the reason that most people don't seem to have much of anything against the Patriot Act is that they don't fully understand the new powers that it gives law enforcement to spy on us and the new powers granted to the government to hold people, in secret, without trial or an attorney if they label you as a "terrorist". Most people only get as far as reading the title and think, 'hmm... "Patriot Act", I must need to be for it if I am a patriot' and they leave it at that.

To give a few quick examples, the government can now legally read your *private* e-mail (even if it is encrypted) without first obtaining a search warrant and they are allowed to intercept any communication over the internet, even voice, without first obtaining a warrant, as they would have to if it was the same voice conversation conducted over a phone line. They can also intercept your private messages sent over instant messaging programs or any other form of private internet communication. Basically, they have been given the legal authority to catalog the entire internet and then look for any kind of dirt that they can find on anybody and use it against them.

Today, it is supposedly the hunt for terrorist, but tomorrow, once all of the infrastructure is in place to spy on the entire internet, you may be dragged to court over much lesser offences. My point being, once the power is there to read the entire internet and catalog it, it will only be a matter of time before such power is very heavily abused and used to ruin people's lives. That is the whole reason that you have to get a warrant in order to wire tap somebody's phone line these days in the first place.

I could go on and on, but this thread isn't dedicated to discussion of the Patriot Act so I will leave off with the previous, very oversimplified, explanation. I hope that I've listed enough to encourage people to pay attention and have a desire to read the Patriot Act for themselves though because we, as good and patriotic citizens, need to keep tabs on what crooked, freedom sucking laws that our government is passing so that we can make a better informed decision when it comes time to vote.

Thanks for the info guys (from both sides). I personally don't take anybody's word on any of these issues as absolute fact, it is so easy for someone to put either a bad, or good spin on almost anything withough trying, or even thinking about it. I imagine most of the people who were Bush supporters when he was elected are still Bush supporters, and those that aren't are still against him, and those opinions (rightly or wrongly) come out in what you post about politics. I don't want to get into an argument about which side is right (like most of you, I have already made up my mind which side that is), but I was merely curious as to why I hear so much bad stuff and seemingly no good stuff about Pres. Bush. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I didn't bother to watch or listen. I don't believe what politicians say, unless they state they are for christians only, and anti-gay. I figure those are the only things they are telling the truth on. hehehe

I couldn't care less what party or idiotology they profess they hold to.

This much IS consistent with ALL politicians: they will say anything to get elected.

Why don't we just declare in LAW that gays are subhuman by genetics, therefore NOT citizens, and do a go for the gusto extermination. Let us be done with it, rather than a little suppression here and a little more there. (I am a gay, by the way).

I have mixed feelings on a lot of Bush's actions. In all fairness, he has been dealt a much heavier hand then Clinton was. I wonder how Clinton or Gore would have reacted under the same 911 circumstances. My views and votes are generally more Democrat then Republican but I have to admit I was kind of glad Bush was the one who was in office after the 911 attacks as I knew he wouldn't sit still.

I am really against NAFTA. It cost my mother her job. She worked at a shirt factory for more then 20 years. She got paid piece work but never made more then ten dollars an hour, usually much less but still the company couldn't survive the competition from Mexico and went belly up. I remember times as a kid when my father was laid off and it was my mother's pay that could at least put food on the table.

Some issues like gay marriages, I could care less about. Now I may have opinions but the issue is so small compared to the real problems of the world, it wouldn't affect my vote for the President one iota.

I was told to watch at least part of it from my debate teacher and watch how he delivered his speech. Poised and spoke with confidence. However, I don't agree with the Patriot Act.

In my Contemporary Issues class, the teacher handed us a paper by Micheal Moore that was against the Patriot Act. In it he gives a case where a teacher of another Contemporary Issues class was arrested because one group of students was doing an "Anti-Bush" presentation. To gather proof of this, the government had an agent sneak in the class at 1:00 IN THE MORNING to take a picture of a poster that had a picture of Bush with duct tape over his mouth. The quote for that poster was something like "Put your duct tape to good use." The teacher was arrested for something that wasn't his point of view. It was how a student felt. Remember, this was a contemporary issue class and was supposed to be controvercial. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I can't credit anything that comes from the desk of Michael Moore with any basis in reality at all. I have personally seen teachers say and do things that border on true treason in their discussions and accusations against the government. These people are not arrested, and neither was any teacher in any paper by mr moore. You might find Bowling for Columbine listed in the documentary section, but it's fiction.

Just because nobody is listening to you rant, doesn't mean you're somehow being repressed. It means you're ranting.

Emily Jones wrote a wonderful essay on how ridiculous things like this are becoming, I'll quote from the end:


"I can understand their fear. Does anybody else recall their own trepidation following the "disappearance" of Maureen Dowd? What about when Noam Chomsky's limp body was discovered in a roadside brush, a single bullet to his temple? The country coiled in shock when it was announced that traces of arsenic were discovered in the empty box of Krispy-Kremes that ultimately killed Michael Moore. As this is written, a Dixie Chick sits in a dark cell, living on peckings, uncertain of her fate, while Janeane Garofalo hasn't been given the opportunity to co-star in a [edit for CPF language] film since literally the start of the so-called "war on terror". When will the nightmare end?"

I understand the frustration when nobody seems to be listening to you, but perhaps people ARE hearing the message, they just judge it to be unworthy. Nobody is stopping me from hearing horrible things every day about our government. They do a lot of lousy things and a lot of other things I disagree with. But I'm not going to prison for talking about it here, and neither will you and neither will your Contemporary Issues teacher.

Moore is a Joke. pure, plain, simple, "Dude, where is your honesty?"

I find it interesty that few are concerned that the President of the United States stood up in front of the whole country and called for the Legal Discrimination of American Citizens based on Religion.

I wonder who's next?