All are really about the same?

Been reading (studying may be more accurate) posts here for quite a while and it -seems- to me that when all is said and done there is little if any significant difference in build quality between the various makers within the same price points-fair observation?

I think that's a fair observation.

But there really aren't that many high end makers here, or even outside the CPF, so it's not that large a sample. It might be hard to precisely compare them. But the bottom line is I think there's enough competition and other choices so that they offer top quality and value for the money. In other words I don't think the prices are out of line with the actual product. In that sense I agree with you.

The other thing that's happened over the last 5 to 10 years is that the better major manufacturers have caught up to some extent with the custom or semi custom builders. No one says Fenix or Olight or Sunwayman makes a crappy light for the money. Surefire has slipped a bit, but in general is still highly regarded.

I think that's generally true for most things? In a very very general sense... which is how economics work.

But I'm certain there are $## lights that I will think are "crap" and another $## light that I think is amazing...

At the risk of sounding argumentative...
Uh...no.

Not even close. You just have to discern dime store lights vs expensive dime store lights vs a good one.

Now manufactures of dime store lights have stepped up the quality of the parts they assemble. Said parts are made of better materials than say..the dime store light of 20 years ago.

But a $300 Sure Fire weapon lights is a lot more sturdy than an $18 fenix.

Trouble is the masses think anything over $50 is a waste because there are so many decent $35 lights now. But they are only decent and when it counts they may not work after being dropped onto pavement from 5 feet.
The 'good' lights can be dropped 100 or more feet and never flinch.

I had supper with Selfbuilt and a couple of other Toronto area CPFers a few months back. Selfbuilt brought several lights, there were two AA lights. One was an expensive piece of cr*p, and one was a relatively cheap very nice light. Kind of echoes the post 2 above.

I find it interesting to read Vinh's observations when he pulls apart a light to upgrade it.

bykfixer said:

At the risk of sounding argumentative...
Uh...no.

Not even close. You just have to discern dime store lights vs expensive dime store lights vs a good one.

Now manufactures of dime store lights have stepped up the quality of the parts they assemble. Said parts are made of better materials than say..the dime store light of 20 years ago.

But a $300 Sure Fire weapon lights is a lot more sturdy than an $18 fenix.

Trouble is the masses think anything over $50 is a waste because there are so many decent $35 lights now. But they are only decent and when it counts they may not work after being dropped onto pavement from 5 feet.
The 'good' lights can be dropped 100 or more feet and never flinch.

Click to expand...

How does one kill a Fenix E01. Many on CPF have tried. What do they cost? Heck less than 18 dollars. I guess there are lots of distinctions between gear items. Is the ability to be dropped 100 feet really the deciding factor as well? I think the best gear item is one actually on hand if needed. So if that means someone only has 35 dollars to spend it will beat a light costing 50 or 300 because they won't actually have them. That said I do think the OP was referring to gear within the same price point. On that issue sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes less and other times IMHO you get more.

I would say that you do get what you pay for in premium lights (which I consider $40 MSRP). Some companies are known for great customer service in addition to their quality lights. Others have good quality lights but hit and miss customer service. Of the companies I've purchased from I would say Zebralight seems to have the better quality lights with a higher price tag. Nitecore makes some nice lights for a good price as does Fenix. I also have a Olight S10 which hasn't given me any troubles. McGizmo I hear has excellent customer service, super tough lights, made in the USA and good prices for what you get. WoodsWalker summed it up nicely when he said "sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes less and other times IMHO you get more."

IMO, $50-$100 for a light is the sweet spot, in terms of value for money. You can certainly get lights cheaper than that, but in general they will have poorer quality build, UI, tint, beam profile, etc. A flashaholic probably wouldn't be happy with them.

There are also lights that are much more expensive than $100, and usually are better quality, but you're paying for a marginal increase in quality. Unless you've got money to burn, or absolutely must have the best of the best, they don't offer good value.

And, of course, you can buy a $50 Maglite, and be very unimpressed. So, do some research on brands and models, and pick something in the $50-$100 range. That's what I do. My favourite brands are Zebralight, Armytek, Sunwayman, and I used to like 4sevens (but no longer like them because they've gone a different direction).

I also have some cheaper lights, some of which are of decent quality, but they don't get a lot of use.

tom- said:

Been reading (studying may be more accurate) posts here for quite a while and it -seems- to me that when all is said and done there is little if any significant difference in build quality between the various makers within the same price points-fair observation?

Click to expand...

You gotta watch out for this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...he-Most-Overpriced-Budget-Lights-in-the-World

A lot of a, sharks out there, try'na take a bite of somethin'
What's hot
Lot of chameleons out there, try'na change up
Anytime somethin' new comes along, everybody wants a bite
Don't happen overnight

--Cypress Hill, "Rock Superstar"

Click to expand...

WalkIntoTheLight said:

IMO, $50-$100 for a light is the sweet spot, in terms of value for money. You can certainly get lights cheaper than that, but in general they will have poorer quality build, UI, tint, beam profile, etc. A flashaholic probably wouldn't be happy with them.

There are also lights that are much more expensive than $100, and usually are better quality, but you're paying for a marginal increase in quality. Unless you've got money to burn, or absolutely must have the best of the best, they don't offer good value.

And, of course, you can buy a $50 Maglite, and be very unimpressed. So, do some research on brands and models, and pick something in the $50-$100 range. That's what I do. My favourite brands are Zebralight, Armytek, Sunwayman, and I used to like 4sevens (but no longer like them because they've gone a different direction).

I also have some cheaper lights, some of which are of decent quality, but they don't get a lot of use.

Click to expand...

Yep.

I tend to think of myself as more of a hoarder than a holic. An off center, oval blue beam don't bother me one bit.

What does it when I push the on button and nothing happens. Regardless of what the light has been through, as long as there is juice in the battery it should turn on first try.
To me that's a good light.
The others I consider decent lights.

I just relegated a light to shelf status simply because it failed to turn on twice on the first click over a couple month period.
It's a $40 highly regarded light IPX8 rated. It got replaced by a $10 light.
The $40 light is nowhere near as solid as the $10 light.
The $40 light is considered military grade and only has 1 spring... while the $10 light has one at each end.
Basically the $10 light is shock isolated. The $40 is not.
The $40 light has been treated well. The $10 light has been dropped, dunked, and even used as a projectile.
The $40 is HA 3. But I'd much rather have a scratched up light that works than a pretty light it takes 3 clicks to make turn on.

I purposely left out names. Brand loyalty is fine and all but... not all lights are built well regardless of price.

But I do know my Malkoffs are.

bykfixer said:

At the risk of sounding argumentative...
Uh...no.

Not even close. You just have to discern dime store lights vs expensive dime store lights vs a good one.

Click to expand...

he did. The OP stated: "within the same price points"

So he is NOT comparing dime store lights with Olight, Fenix and such

bykfixer said:

At the risk of sounding argumentative...
Uh...no.

Not even close. You just have to discern dime store lights vs expensive dime store lights vs a good one.

Now manufactures of dime store lights have stepped up the quality of the parts they assemble. Said parts are made of better materials than say..the dime store light of 20 years ago.

But a $300 Sure Fire weapon lights is a lot more sturdy than an $18 fenix.

Trouble is the masses think anything over $50 is a waste because there are so many decent $35 lights now. But they are only decent and when it counts they may not work after being dropped onto pavement from 5 feet.
The 'good' lights can be dropped 100 or more feet and never flinch.

Click to expand...

I think you skipped the part where the OP said "within the same price point".

Nope...if you read what I said first...about $35-50 lights, then 2nd about how an abused $10 is sturdier than a pampered $40 light ...

The build quality of the $10 light far exceeds the $40 light...even rivals some $100 lights.

Ok take the $100 light price point...the $99 Malkoff is much better built than a $99 coast.
The $55 Sure Fire G2x is way sturdier than my $55 Streamlight Scorpion. Nothing wrong with either.
If I need brighter output the Scorpion gets picked. If I need sturdy, it's the Sure Fire.
I'm not some brand fan boy as a rule. I own numerous well built, numerous decent and some junky lights. But when I buy a light it generally have a particular use in mind.

Like Stanley screwdrivers from home depot vs Craftsman...each has a use in mind. Both are decent quality. Yet the Stanley cost a lot less. But when it really matters I pull out the Carlisle screwdrivers. Say it's a stuck brass screw in a tight spot. I need the tool that's reliably made by tip size, durability and achieve the best grip.

Same goes for flashlights. If I'm going somewhere that my light is a part of personal protection..rest assured my repetiore will not include a Fenix, Nitecore, or any other tin toy chinese light.
So if faced with a choice of the $10 light vs the $40 light...$40 light stays on the shelf. Because it was built out of better stuff.


Now if you wanna talk about the beam...yeah I agree at same (or similar) price points...most are very similar.

Build quality is more important than brightness to me. I'm not trying to blind anyone.

I think a lot of it comes down to company culture and the culture of their contract manufacturer assuming they use one.

A light that has say a $10 cost, can be made a lot more reliably, if that is the goal, at an $11.50 or say $12.50 cost ..... nitrogen environment in the SMT line, better quality capacitor, wires put in by wave, not hand, a higher grade of anodizing, a switch that really will last 10K activations in life, not on the data sheet, consistent color binning for the LED, etc. "Quality" is not one particular things, but the sum of a lot of things done right, from enough testing of the U.I. such that it works they way most would think it should work, environmental testing and thermal shock as well as mechanical vibration to reveal weaknesses, and a manufacturing flow that results in high yield and few field failures. That does not need to make a $10 MFG cost $20, but it could add 10-30%. Now you have to convince your customers to pay for it .... Some vendors have and are reaping the rewards.

^^ this...

Well put.

Nuff said. :thanks:

tom- said:

Been reading (studying may be more accurate) posts here for quite a while and it -seems- to me that when all is said and done there is little if any significant difference in build quality between the various makers within the same price points-fair observation?

Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much imo. I mean even comparing across different price levels, there's nothing magical about the $200 lights, there's less of a chance of it happening with some them and better warranties & service when they do fail, but they can still fail too, and some of the cheap ones might surprise you.

End of the day I've realized they're mostly all good enough quality for me, so I prioritize getting the closest combination of features I prefer, size/format, availability and price over some idea of quality that has 0% failure rate, because that's not realistic. I can understand why someone would want to splurge on the best quality possible, but $10 Walmart lights & sure fires, they have all held up equally well for me.

My dad has a romisen rc-c3 that I gave him about 5-6 years ago. He put it on his keychain and used it daily. Dropped it, dented it, etc but the glass never broke and it still works perfectly today after all that. I'll try to get a picture of it as it's the most beat up light I've ever seen that actually works. I paid $10 for it years ago, it's a simple twist on/off with 1 mode.

I just hope all who believe "at same price point" they're all the same never have to find out the hard way...
Dun

Thank you all for taking the time to reply-bykfixer, if you or anyone could recommend a maker which has significantly higher quality in the $150 and up price range it would be most appreciated. My ideal light would have a max 4k lumens or so, more flood than throw, an intelligent/well thought out spread between levels, a useful very low setting for trail walking and very generous run times: a light which would accept a belt worn pack as an option would be ideal, size and heat produced not really important as the highest setting would only be used briefly. Cost (within reason don't need anything gold plated or studded with jewels) not as important as performance.

Should have added originally that the price spread I was referencing begins at the $50 or so dollar amount, or that cost which the average person would expect to get a light which works and stays working to whatever.... It is here that I have not read any significant amount of posts which reference serious problems or failures, especially in view of the number of units which probably are being produced and sold.

Again, I appreciate everyone for taking the time to provide input.