Nitecore MT10A on 14505 cells?

Geoffrey

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Hi all, I am looking for another AA light to add to my small but growing collection.

I really like the new Nitecore MT10a light and the fact it can use both AA and 14500 with all modes retained.

Before moving onto 14500 cells I decided to buy some 14505 3v primary cells. The 14505 work great in my Quark lights but don't work in my Nitecore NDI. My question is has anyone tried a 14505 cell in their MT10a? If so do you get all the modes or is it like my NDI where the light gives a low voltage warning thinking its a 14500 that has ran out of juice?

Thanks all
 

ChrisGarrett

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Hi all, I am looking for another AA light to add to my small but growing collection.

I really like the new Nitecore MT10a light and the fact it can use both AA and 14500 with all modes retained.

Before moving onto 14500 cells I decided to buy some 14505 3v primary cells. The 14505 work great in my Quark lights but don't work in my Nitecore NDI. My question is has anyone tried a 14505 cell in their MT10a? If so do you get all the modes or is it like my NDI where the light gives a low voltage warning thinking its a 14500 that has ran out of juice?

Thanks all

It looks like the 3.0v battery is 'fooling' the buck/boost driver and failing to operate the light.

Just guessing, but a 1.8v lithium AA and a 1.20v (nom.) NiMH AA are both low enough to trigger the boost driver and then you have a 3.6v (nom.) li-ion cell triggering the 'other' battery voltage that the light can use, so that one works.

The 14505 seems to be a 'tweener' and is too low to be seen as a weak li-ion and too high to be seen as a freshly charged NiMH, or higher voltage Energizer lithium AA.

Chris
 

hiuintahs

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............ My question is has anyone tried a 14505 cell in their MT10a? If so do you get all the modes or is it like my NDI where the light gives a low voltage warning thinking its a 14500 that has ran out of juice?
Thanks all
I think you will get all the modes. In fact, I think they will be better regulated than say a 14500 battery. What I found out with the MT10C (which is very similar and basically a cousin to the MT10A), is that a CR123A battery had 5 distinct current regulated levels. The battery I was using actually was around 3.0V. I think there is a cross-over voltage (around the Vf of the LED), where the higher voltage of the 14500 (MT10A) or 16340 or 18350 on the MT10C you get a PWM on everything but the lowest. I haven't seen any low voltage warning on the MT10A. In fact, I'm not sure it knows what battery is in there other than it behaves different based on battery voltage.............whether its above or below the Vf of the LED.

You can check battery voltage by pressing both side buttons when you turn the tail cap switch on. You get some blinks out of the red led. I don't think there is any built in cut-off for a low battery. In the manual it states: "Batteries should be replaced or recharged when output appears to be dim or the flashlight becomes unresponsive."

One of the reasons I sold the MT10C was that Nitecore doesn't include a 16340 or CR123A holder as the light is wider and designed to mainly run the 18350 battery. I actually like the solid (no PWM) output that I saw on the CR123A and since I get the same with an Eneloop on the MT10A, I'm thinking that a 14505 battery would behave the same in the MT10A as a CR123A does in a MT10C. Just a thought.

This is making me want to get some of those batteries as I'm using the MT10A primarily as an AA light and I don't like the PWM of the 14500 battery........even though in disclosure, you can't see it. My meter can and I guess that's enough to bug me psychologically :rolleyes:.
 
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Geoffrey

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Thank you both for your responses. I have added this to my Christmas wish list :)

hiuintahs I appreciate your feedback and I totally understand, there are things that bother me only on a psychological level too.
 

Geoffrey

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So I got my MT10A and on a 14505 and it appears to be putting out maybe 200 lumens or so.

I have some 14500 cells on the way and I will compare the turbo mode on both.

Just wanted to update this post in case anyone else was debating running this light on a 14505 cell and hoping to get the max advertised lumens...
 

el soluna

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Try not to use batteries that are not recommended in the user manual.
 

hiuintahs

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So I got my MT10A and on a 14505 and it appears to be putting out maybe 200 lumens or so.
I have some 14500 cells on the way and I will compare the turbo mode on both.
Just wanted to update this post in case anyone else was debating running this light on a 14505 cell and hoping to get the max advertised lumens...
Yes, makes sense. This is my understanding of how this driver works with the wide range of battery operating voltage.

Since the 14505 is a primary lithium ion cell like a CR123A (only in AA format), the voltage is lower than a 14500 rechargeable lithium ion battery. So that puts the maximum voltage at around 3.3v on a new 14505, correct? The MT10A can run on voltages from around 0.9v up to 4.2v. Since the Vf of the LED is around 3.20v, this means that the driver has to buck the 14500 and boost the AA Eneloop or alkaline. A 14505 cell is right in the middle and mostly below the Vf of the LED so the circuit treats it differently than the 14500 and more like an Eneloop. You can only get the maximum turbo output when using a voltage above the Vf of the LED such as the 14500 because the circuit goes into more of a direct drive with PWM.

By the way if not needing that max turbo output, the MT10A is pretty efficient when operating in boost mode with an Eneloop battery which would include the 14505. There is no PWM at this level and good current regulation. Geoffrey, let us know when you get the 14500 batteries. I know my light is a lot brighter on 14500 than Eneloop, but I mostly use it on the Eneloop because I use it as a nightstand light by the bed and mostly use the low level.
 
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Geoffrey

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Yes, makes sense. This is my understanding of how this driver works with the wide range of battery operating voltage.

Since the 14505 is a primary lithium ion cell like a CR123A (only in AA format), the voltage is lower than a 14500 rechargeable lithium ion battery. So that puts the maximum voltage at around 3.3v on a new 14505, correct? The MT10A can run on voltages from around 0.9v up to 4.2v. Since the Vf of the LED is around 3.20v, this means that the driver has to buck the 14500 and boost the AA Eneloop or alkaline. A 14505 cell is right in the middle and mostly below the Vf of the LED so the circuit treats it differently than the 14500 and more like an Eneloop. You can only get the maximum turbo output when using a voltage above the Vf of the LED such as the 14500 because the circuit goes into more of a direct drive with PWM.

By the way if not needing that max turbo output, the MT10A is pretty efficient when operating in boost mode with an Eneloop battery which would include the 14505. There is no PWM at this level and good current regulation. Geoffrey, let us know when you get the 14500 batteries. I know my light is a lot brighter on 14500 than Eneloop, but I mostly use it on the Eneloop because I use it as a nightstand light by the bed and mostly use the low level.

Thanks for your response, I run a 14505 in my AA Tactical Quark and I would guess that the MT10A is the same output on a 14505 as the Quark. It is a nice bright beam however this is meant to be my new edc light which will see more outdoor use on our acreage than indoor use in the house. I have a growing selection of AA lights, one of those will get nightstand duty.
 

Geoffrey

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Try not to use batteries that are not recommended in the user manual.

Thanks, however the 14505 cell is within the voltage range listed in the manual. It simply isn't high enough in voltage to give the same output as the 14500, I knew this might be the issue which is why I posted the question here. I am just sharing my results with anyone else that might want to use the 14505 primary cell in this light.
 

creegeek

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I own the MT10A - it's great on an Eneloop AA and Energizer Ultimate Lithium.

When running Lithium Ion I found 3.0v cells inadequate. You need 4v IMR 14500 cells for 1000 lumens. Be sure to prevent over discharge with IMR cells since recharging them can be dangerous at a such a low voltage.

Others on this group can chip in and provide some more sage advice.
 

Geoffrey

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I own the MT10A - it's great on an Eneloop AA and Energizer Ultimate Lithium.

When running Lithium Ion I found 3.0v cells inadequate. You need 4v IMR 14500 cells for 1000 lumens. Be sure to prevent over discharge with IMR cells since recharging them can be dangerous at a such a low voltage.

Others on this group can chip in and provide some more sage advice.

Thanks, it is nice that the light has a built in voltage check feature, I will be very careful running the 14500 cells.
 

chadvone

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I have both 10a and 10c. Well Heather has the 10a. Did some head and battery swapping tonight. And found....

The 10c at about 2.5 volts it gets stupid. Looses battery check. Comes on lowest white level. At 3 volts you have nice well spaced modes. Not 1000 lumens. Maybe 300.
Somewhere around 3.3 volts you will get big jump between moonlight n level 2. Rest of the modes are spaced closer. The highest is determined by battery chemistry. IMR being brightest.

The 10A acts the same as 10C . On 3 volt primary you have well spaced modes. Much like AA primary. Around 2.5 volts on primary you will loose the higher modes, flash of max then dimming. I will guess this would also be close on IMR , not enough current to keep light going??? I have ran protected 14500 and lost high modes before protection kicked in. On AA NiMH you loose highs about 1 volt. I believe 1 volt is lowest reading you will get with battery meter.

I really like both these lights. I wish they maintained better mode spacing at higher voltages
 
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