Philips has added DRM to their Hue lighting system

PhotonWrangler · Dec 15, 2015

Philips has just added DRM to their HUE lighting system, which prevents non-certified Zigbee bulbs from working with it. This pretty much guarantees that I will never buy into this system. For the same reason that I will never use a Keurig coffeemaker.

Keuring took a serious hit after they added DRM to their 2.0 coffeemaker, requiring users to only use pricier, Keurig branded K-cups. This was quickly hacked, of course, but the company is still facing multiple lawsuits. Will the same thing happen to Philips?

made in china · Dec 17, 2015

I was all about to get HUE color bulbs years ago. Until I realized that HUE works through the internet. Silly me, I thought HUE bulbs were locally controlled. Nah. F them.

I don't like the idea of investing in something that's controlled through a system that could easily be converted into a revenue source. At some point someone's gonna charge for you to be able to control your connected life....oh wait, many already do. So this doesn't surprise me one bit.

degarb · Dec 17, 2015

Gretta may need to add the forum: "Light Bulb Rooting" - What is the world coming to?

Isn't the point of controlling the light bulb, NOT having to manually control it, by making everything automatic? I can't get the kids to turn out their lights-so now they need to learn how to use a tablet app to control the light. Yeah, that will work. How many times a week will the spouse and parents across town call me at work, complaining that they can't turn on the light because the Internet, modem, or router is down? I guess building a light bulb with a slider switch to control color is too complicated--as is, a lamp with a timer and pir during certain hours. Nearly every one over 40 (that I know) has violently thrown their phones across the room (toward the ground or other harder, handy surface), at least once in the last year, because they just want a phone that works without app and OS freeze-ups!!!! I hope the future design of bulbs has an extra cushy bumper case involved. Then, on the other hand, will our teenagers want to marry and make love to their future light bulbs? Nah, probably not if the thing cannot take selfies.

CoveAxe · Dec 21, 2015

My goodness, does anyone here know what DRM even means? It doesn't fundamentally change the laws of physics. Your wall switch is still going to work just fine to turn on/off the lights. You don't have to use an app if you don't want to.

And no one is going to charge you for you to use your lights for the same reason a blu-ray player doesn't charge you to watch a movie or pause/fast-forward through it. You can't suddenly charge for something that a user has been getting or can get for free. They will quickly leave you behind if you try it. That's like rule #3 in business.

made in china · Dec 21, 2015

CoveAxe said:
My goodness, does anyone here know what DRM even means? It doesn't fundamentally change the laws of physics. Your wall switch is still going to work just fine to turn on/off the lights. You don't have to use an app if you don't want to.

And no one is going to charge you for you to use your lights for the same reason a blu-ray player doesn't charge you to watch a movie or pause/fast-forward through it. You can't suddenly charge for something that a user has been getting or can get for free. They will quickly leave you behind if you try it. That's like rule #3 in business.

HUE color needs an active internet connection to manage control from your App, which effectively means no color control, scenes or automation without internet. Using the light switch only works for the white light function.

I didn't see anywhere that Philips promises to never charge you for use of their servers to run the light.

CoveAxe · Dec 21, 2015

HUE color needs an active internet connection to manage control from your App, which effectively means no color control, scenes or automation without internet. Using the light switch only works for the white light function.

OK, fine. So you can't change color for a while. Big deal. The examples cited in this thread were about turning the light on and off, which are definitely not impacted here. I can see this requirement being a problem if you live somewhere where internet is very flaky, but you're going to know about that long before you buy this thing.

This has nothing to do with DRM, BTW. DRM just means that you can't buy a different brand bulb and have it work with the same system. There are many good reasons for doing this besides the obvious lock-out of competition: you don't have to deal with cheap junk bulbs messing everything up and giving you a bad name, and it makes it much easier to troubleshoot from a support perspective. This simply follows the Apple user experience model.

I didn't see anywhere that Philips promises to never charge you for use of their servers to run the light.

I didn't see anywhere that CPF promises to never charge me to make a post. But let's just take your concern at face value: let's say Philips one day suddenly sends a notice to all HUE owners that they now have to pay to use their products that they previously allowed for free. How long do you think that would last? Philips hardly has a monopoly here, and there is no shortage of companies that would step in to fill the gap. They would not only lose a ton of marketshare literally overnight, but they will be universally reviled and likely be criminally investigated in some way. The benefits don't even come close to outweighing the drawbacks. It just isn't going to happen.

Like it or not, this is the direction all home automation stuff is going. It's simply a consequence of home owners wanting something that is simple to set up while also being accessible from their phone anywhere. The only other alternative is to have home owners setting up static IPs and running a local server. Most people don't know how to do that so it's a non-starter.

degarb · Dec 21, 2015

My brother just bought a car with onStar. Something like $20 a month to be able to lock and start the car from a mile away. Me, I would pay monthly for old fashioned crank windows, manual doors, and no tracking.

Probably, the business model is some free features, but upsell a monthly fee for advanced features... Yeah, I have no problem running servers that need a static ip. I use dyndns.Dk Still the light bulb would need a security camera built in before I would bother using a phone to control it. Much less, bothering to get caught in a Quagmire of becoming a light bulb slave of some company. Already a slave to taxes, mortagage, utilities, insurance, health department,, internet provider, waste management. Need I add another?

CoveAxe · Dec 21, 2015

My brother just bought a car with onStar. Something like $20 a month to be able to lock and start the car from a mile away.

Yeah, that's not actually true. The lock/unlock through phone feature works even if you don't have the subscription. I know this because I also have a new car with onstar and the subscription expired months ago and I'm still able to do remote start/lock/unlock/horn alarm through my phone. Onstar itself is a mixed bag which is why I didn't bother renewing past the trial. Most of the pay features are more geared for elderly or technologically clueless people.

Not sure how you would be a slave seeing as you aren't paying anything outside of the initial purchase price, but OK.

PhotonWrangler · Dec 21, 2015

CoveAxe said:
Not sure how you would be a slave seeing as you aren't paying anything outside of the initial purchase price, but OK.

Except you're paying more for the initial outlay when you can't use third party bulbs, and every time you wantr to add another bulb you're stuck buying from the higher priced single vendor.

Tejasandre · Dec 21, 2015

Love my hue system. Works great. Auto on & off. Manual. Turn em off by phone when I go to bed & forget to turn em off ....

made in china · Dec 24, 2015

CoveAxe said:
OK, fine. So you can't change color for a while. Big deal. The examples cited in this thread were about turning the light on and off, which are definitely not impacted here. I can see this requirement being a problem if you live somewhere where internet is very flaky, but you're going to know about that long before you buy this thing.

This has nothing to do with DRM, BTW. DRM just means that you can't buy a different brand bulb and have it work with the same system. There are many good reasons for doing this besides the obvious lock-out of competition: you don't have to deal with cheap junk bulbs messing everything up and giving you a bad name, and it makes it much easier to troubleshoot from a support perspective. This simply follows the Apple user experience model.

I didn't see anywhere that CPF promises to never charge me to make a post. But let's just take your concern at face value: let's say Philips one day suddenly sends a notice to all HUE owners that they now have to pay to use their products that they previously allowed for free. How long do you think that would last? Philips hardly has a monopoly here, and there is no shortage of companies that would step in to fill the gap. They would not only lose a ton of marketshare literally overnight, but they will be universally reviled and likely be criminally investigated in some way. The benefits don't even come close to outweighing the drawbacks. It just isn't going to happen.

Like it or not, this is the direction all home automation stuff is going. It's simply a consequence of home owners wanting something that is simple to set up while also being accessible from their phone anywhere. The only other alternative is to have home owners setting up static IPs and running a local server. Most people don't know how to do that so it's a non-starter.

Where did I ever mention DRM? The OP did. I just stated my usual dislike of internet connected home lighting.
I would say the same thing with or without DRM.
And why get so wadded up about other people's opinion?

PhotonWrangler · Dec 24, 2015

I prefer simplicity and an easy manual override for lighting systems.

I have a friend who has an old X10 "smart" lighting system. Each light switches consists of two buttons, and some of them have a bizarre sequence that's required to turn the lights on, something like press-three-times-then-stand-on-your-head-while-pressing-the-other-button-twice and tickling the dog. It's infuriating when I just want to turn on the $#^! lights and I can't.

It's not networked to the outside world. If it was, it would probably take even more steps to turn the damn lights on. :banghead:

night.hoodie · Dec 24, 2015

Philips changed their mind

PhotonWrangler · Dec 25, 2015

night.hoodie said:
Philips changed their mind

Well I'm glad to see that they've come to their senses.

Philips says that it "underestimated the impact" on customers

Again, they should've learned this lesson from Keurig at the outset.

angerdan · Dec 26, 2016

Since the Hue Starter Kits priced at 45€, entry is quite affordable now.
For anyone who wants to get in cheaper: Buy a used Hue Bridge (~10€, 1st generation) and the innr Bulb RB 162 (~16€).
By the way, the cheapest Hue Starter Set did drop to <$50.

made in china said:
I was all about to get HUE color bulbs years ago. Until I realized that HUE works through the internet. Silly me, I thought HUE bulbs were locally controlled.

Connection to the Hue bridge is through LAN. So no internet connection to the bridge. Just local control. Even better than Osram Lightify bridge, because hue bridge use LAN and 5V (Lightify Plug needs WiFi and power socket)
Only if you register at myhue.com and connect the profile to the hue app, you can control it through the internet. It's the choice of the users.

made in china said:
HUE color needs an active internet connection to manage control from your App, which effectively means no color control, scenes or automation without internet. Using the light switch only works for the white light function.

That's not true. The ap only needs connection to the Bridge. And even without App you can use the Hue Tap or Hue Dimmer Switch.
And even without any remote control you can use it as an normal room light just with the regular installed light switch.

PhotonWrangler said:
Except you're paying more for the initial outlay when you can't use third party bulbs, and every time you wantr to add another bulb you're stuck buying from the higher priced single vendor.

You can use third party lamps, like Osram Lightify and Innr Bulb RB 162.

Philips has added DRM to their Hue lighting system

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