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Thread: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

  1. #121
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Great Idea here, Monocrom !


    Here's an on-line video I found --

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8wZ5rMmYV0



    and HERE is a nice Knipex model, on Amazon --

    https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-71-32-.../dp/B005EXO8LK



    Could certainly be VERY handy !

  2. #122

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Nice finds. Thanks for the links.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  3. #123
    Flashaholic* xdayv's Avatar
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    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Not sure about barbed wire, but many years ago someone did a review about a rather unique folding knife (same length as a Victorinox Tinker model) though considerably thicker. It was an Aitor brand pocket-knife that had real folding pliers head as one of the tools. It was still thinner than a Vic Swiss Champ. The author of the article mentioned the pliers were not as strong as what you'd get on a Leatherman tool. But he demonstrated they were strong enough to cut through chicken wire. So, many years later, something like the Leatherman Super Tool 300 or Rebar will easily cut through that.

    I'm now trying to track down a black coated Rebar. Ironically (hours before I realized I wanted one) I found the non-black version in a large, chain hardware store. Why couldn't it be black?!
    same here, black rebar! got a regular skeletool for the urban edc.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quick thoughts- Ever since I purchased a sillcock key after reading Monocrom's post about it, I find myself looking for the access doors for them on commercial buildings I find myself dealing with. Lots more out there, even in suburbia/rural areas than I thought. As far as boltcutters, I've got to find the name but they sell upside down "T" shaped steps that hook through the links in a chain link fence to make climbing it easier. Chain link is a time consuming p.i.t.a. to cut through, but bolt cutters obviously have other uses...

    Edit- If anyone has a scanner recommendation that covers trunking systems, please post it here. Thanks!

  5. #125

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    As far as I know, every commercial building has an access panel for use with a sillcock key. Some are better hidden than others though. I was walking past the commercial building with numerous offices that are rented out, a block away from my apartment. Doctor's offices, medical labs, auto insurance offices, etc. And just a few days ago, I was walking past, looking down, and I see the spigot sticking right out the wall. No panel, nothing recessed, the opening for water access was just right there. Literally hanging out of the building.

    Also, while I don't normally make these types of posts.... +1 on good scanner recommendations.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  6. #126

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    This is all really interesting about the sillcock. I might have to go pick one up.

  7. #127
    Flashaholic Going_Supernova's Avatar
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    Smile Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Shrek:Listen, little donkey, take a look at me! What am I?
    Donkey:Ah... really tall?
    Shrek:No! I'm an OGRE! You know, "grab your torch and pitchforks!"

  8. #128

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by blah9 View Post
    This is all really interesting about the sillcock. I might have to go pick one up.

    They're right around $8.oo at any of big chain hardware stores. Just be sure to get a 4-way key. Those will have all 4 of the absolute most common measurements. They do make single keys that look like oversized versions of the keys used on very old-fashioned wind-up toys. But the 4-way ones are best.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  9. #129

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Going_Supernova View Post

    Thank you.

    For those on a tight budget, anything a bit less? Personally, I throw money at all types of gear. But you know.... something for the more fiscally responsible members out there.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  10. #130

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    If your just getting into preparedness, it can be very overwhelming and expensive. I would suggest working toward your goal in levels. I would start with storing two weeks worth of water and nonperishable, easy to prepare food.. This is not a difficult task, unless you have a big family. There are multiple ways to go about this, research which is best for your situation.

    Having useable equipment on your person is crucial, build your EDC. Knife, flashlight, firearm, cell phone, first aid, multi-tool, lock picks, etc.. One often overlooked EDC item is knowledge/training. It weighs nothing.

    Once your EDC if finished, I would suggest working on a get home bag (GHB). The GHB should be with you daily. Carry it, use it, and take it out for a walk occaisionally. You would be amazed at what you can learn from actually using your gear. There is a good list of options and ideas in this thread, just dont go crazy. You have to be able to walk with it on your back over rough terrain. Think "lite". The target weight for my GHB is 20 pounds or less. Thats with one quart of water in the bag already and enough trail food to sustain me (not feed me) for a few days. The GHB should be tailored to your situation (terrain, weather, location, etc), but also cover the basics (shelter, water, food, fire, first aid) enough to get you home or to a safer area.

    Next is an actual Bug Out Bag (BOB). Think of this like an expanded GHB. The bug out bag is used for when your home has been compromised and you have to leave. I know of some who just add the additional gear to their GHB or strap their GHB to their BOB for simplicity. Again, there is plenty of info and resources out there on building a BOB. I use a hiking style pack and try to keep this bag below 45 pounds. This weight includes 5 days of food and three quarts of water. The important thing is to have an actual place to go to once you leave your home. Many over look this. Again, build the bag for your situation.

    The BOB bag will contain items that will be useful in the home (Bug In) or at your Bug Out Location (BOL). Items like: water filter, sleeping bag, first aid, tent/tarp, knife, tools, etc..

    Once this is done I would recommend working on supplying your home, vehicles, and BOL with what you may need during a situation. Look at ways to sustain resources (i.e. rainwater collection, livestock,)

    Work on planning. Network with like minded individuals. Some places actually have prepping "clubs" where people gather and trade info, ideas, and do mock bug outs to test equipment and skills. Some people band together and form groups, pledging assistance to one another in the event of a disaster. Take caution though. There are prepping groups out there that do not have you in their best interest. I have seen groups that plan on using their resources for raiding, looting, and stealing from others.

    I recommend learning valuable skills. Bushcraft, marksmanship, gardening, basic carpentry, lock picking, etc.. There are plenty of good books, youtube videos, and schools out there. I learned a great deal from those crazy ultra light hikers.

    ...........go ahead and get a second job to pay for all this crap. LoL.

    Final words from my experience: I love my Family and this is how I invest in their safety and well being. No everyone will agree with preparing for the unknowns, and most will think your crazy. Dont talk openly about your preparations. The less that know the better.

    Learn.....Teach......Train.

  11. #131

    Default The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    The ELECTRICAL GADGETS of my ~10lb/L EDC/GHB bag with a spin toward camping and adventure travel. Primarily rigged for EDC entertainment and solo off-grid monitoring, but of course all critical in an emergency situation. I have various solar options but find its usage:bulk ratio unacceptable for daily EDC. My emergency power solution is efficiency, conservation, and extreme battery versatility/cannibalism/scavenging/MacGyvering - eg, I can all shift power to the critical comm devices, and the lights can run weeks on any scavenged battery (eg 9V, D, CR123, 18650). I've been in a few situations where battery power was an issue, but only because it was the wrong type (that won't happen again)
    Last edited by reppans; 07-18-2016 at 12:08 PM.

  12. #132
    Flashaholic Going_Supernova's Avatar
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    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Thank you.

    For those on a tight budget, anything a bit less? Personally, I throw money at all types of gear. But you know.... something for the more fiscally responsible members out there.
    Unfortunately, none that I know of. If you find something cheaper, just remember you get what you pay for. The good stuff is always expensive, but since it can save your bacon, ask yourself how much your life is worth.

    You can get cheap ChiCom scanning VHF/UHF handie talkies, but they won't be digital compatible or have trunking scanning capabilities. They are better than nothing, but...they're crap, IMO. I highly recommend that you save up the money and pop for the top of the line Uniden digital trunking scanner(s). I don't think that I have ever regretted buying the best of anything.
    Shrek:Listen, little donkey, take a look at me! What am I?
    Donkey:Ah... really tall?
    Shrek:No! I'm an OGRE! You know, "grab your torch and pitchforks!"

  13. #133

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by SapperStyle View Post

    Next is an actual Bug Out Bag (BOB). Think of this like an expanded GHB.
    While I agree with most of the rest of your post, I can't agree with the above. A GHB is incredibly personal. While there are certain specialized items in individual BOBs, for example: extra pairs of prescription eye-glasses for those who don't even remotely have 20/20 vision, many of the items are going to be (for lack of a better term) "standard issue." Hanks of 550 paracord, a good fixed-blade knife with at least a 4.5" inch blade or a bit longer (preferably full-tang), a quality multi-tool w/ one of the included items being a saw, a metal cup (or small pot, or S.S. water-bottle) for boiling water, etc.

    A GHB though depends entirely on how far away a person lives from work and their physical condition. A good wad of cash is easily the most important item to keep in a GHB. In a BOB?.... Debatable. (Personally I don't see cash even being in the Top 5.) A person who lives two blocks away can easily walk home without even needing to use his EDC with the exception of his keys. Assuming the disaster isn't happening at the place he works at, he's perfectly fine without a GHB. But everyone needs a BOB since any type of disaster in which people willingly abandon their homes to become refugees on the road, is by its nature going to be a HUGE one. Even if the disaster is localized. Without individual specialty items, the contents of a BOB will be useful to whoever finds it. From the guy who lives 2 blocks away from work, to the guy who commutes 40 miles one-way everyday into the city from upstate.

    Someone who lives 40 miles away that takes him through wooded areas is going to need a different GHB than someone who can get to work grabbing one bus in the city.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  14. #134

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Going_Supernova View Post
    Unfortunately, none that I know of. If you find something cheaper, just remember you get what you pay for. The good stuff is always expensive, but since it can save your bacon, ask yourself how much your life is worth.

    You can get cheap ChiCom scanning VHF/UHF handie talkies, but they won't be digital compatible or have trunking scanning capabilities. They are better than nothing, but...they're crap, IMO. I highly recommend that you save up the money and pop for the top of the line Uniden digital trunking scanner(s). I don't think that I have ever regretted buying the best of anything.

    Thanks for the heads-up. (Yeah, I'd rather not have crap.)
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  15. #135

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Hey guys, just a quick thing about the Leatherman Rebar (and likely the SuperTool 300 since they use the same locking system).

    Yesterday, I had a chance to really look over the Rebar. Toyed with the idea of just getting the regular one instead of ordering the black version online. I was surprised to see a bit of up and down wiggle from the Phillips driver in the open & closed position. Tried the main blade next. Better, but still some wiggle. The serrated blade was the absolute worst! I found it unacceptable and was surprised it got past Leatherman's quality controls. Thinking that the display model may have been played with too often, I asked to see another Rebar NIB. Well, turns out NIB has been replaced with NIBP (New In Blister Pack). Fortunately for me, they know me. Spent a lot of money in that store. So, the guy carefully peeled back the blister pack on the new one. And, I couldn't believe it!....

    Each of the tools mentioned above, mirrored the tools on the brand new one. Phillips, some play. Main blade, less so. Serrated blade, completely unacceptable level of play.

    No side-to-side play on either one though. Still, my Victorinox One-Hand Trekker has a bit of vertical play and no horizontal play as well. Though that model (and others like it) have a nice liner-lock that physically blocks the blade from closing shut unintentionally. Yes, you fold the handles on the Rebar before using one of the tools and you've got that measure of safety. But unlike an Original Leatherman PST with no lock, once the lock should fail on the Rebar; it's going to be an issue continuing to use the tool. Especially in a Bug Out scenario.

    Just something to keep in mind. It was a deal-breaker for me. But if you like that multi-tool, just be aware of that one disadvantage.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  16. #136

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    While I agree with most of the rest of your post, I can't agree with the above. A GHB is incredibly personal. While there are certain specialized items in individual BOBs, for example: extra pairs of prescription eye-glasses for those who don't even remotely have 20/20 vision, many of the items are going to be (for lack of a better term) "standard issue." Hanks of 550 paracord, a good fixed-blade knife with at least a 4.5" inch blade or a bit longer (preferably full-tang), a quality multi-tool w/ one of the included items being a saw, a metal cup (or small pot, or S.S. water-bottle) for boiling water, etc.

    A GHB though depends entirely on how far away a person lives from work and their physical condition. A good wad of cash is easily the most important item to keep in a GHB. In a BOB?.... Debatable. (Personally I don't see cash even being in the Top 5.) A person who lives two blocks away can easily walk home without even needing to use his EDC with the exception of his keys. Assuming the disaster isn't happening at the place he works at, he's perfectly fine without a GHB. But everyone needs a BOB since any type of disaster in which people willingly abandon their homes to become refugees on the road, is by its nature going to be a HUGE one. Even if the disaster is localized. Without individual specialty items, the contents of a BOB will be useful to whoever finds it. From the guy who lives 2 blocks away from work, to the guy who commutes 40 miles one-way everyday into the city from upstate.

    Someone who lives 40 miles away that takes him through wooded areas is going to need a different GHB than someone who can get to work grabbing one bus in the city.
    I agree....thats why I said:

    "The GHB should be tailored to your situation"

    And:

    "Again, build the bag for your situation."

    Many, but not all, GHB models are miniaturized versions of BOBs. As always, YMMV.

  17. #137

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by SapperStyle View Post
    I agree....thats why I said:

    "The GHB should be tailored to your situation"

    And:

    "Again, build the bag for your situation."

    Many, but not all, GHB models are miniaturized versions of BOBs. As always, YMMV.

    You were doing well, until you got to that last statement. Once again, GHB as similar to a BOB. That was what I replied to. And pointed out the very real differences between the two.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  18. #138

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    You were doing well, until you got to that last statement. Once again, GHB as similar to a BOB. That was what I replied to. And pointed out the very real differences between the two.
    Ok

  19. #139

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    man, I have so many videos showing setups I use.

  20. #140

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Hey guys, here's a good item that fits if you put some good preparation into possibly one day having to bug out. An e-tool (no, not one that helps you charge up your phone or tablet) or a good S.S. trowel.

    There's the old military-issue Ames entrenching tool (personal favorite), along with many other folding mini shovels. With a good set of Contractor Knee pads and an Ames, you can easily do most of the chores reserved for a full-sized shovel. But you can easily carry it around in its cover.... If you don't mind the weight. Even the smallest e-tool I've found (Gerber Gorge) might still be a bit too heavy. (It doesn't help that Gerber pretty much phoned-in the cover for it.)

    So.... lightest option would be the U-Dig-It S.S. folding trowel. It's the best trowel I've found. But it is a trowel, not a shovel.

    Why pack an e-tool or even a trowel? You might realistically need one. Since bugging out is not the exciting adventure some folks think it is, you need to stack the deck to improve your chances of making it. Find a spot close to your BOL (Bug Out Location) and bury a cache. Ironically, no; I don't recommend burying guns. One thing to keep in mind is that someone might come by several weeks, months, or even years later; and stumble onto your cache. If you have guns buried in it.... Not good!

    Also, since your main tool for digging up your cache might be a trowel, we're not talking any container big enough to hold long guns. Think typical military ammo can. Along those lines. Either the actual cans themselves or perhaps heavy-duty plastic containers close in size to them. Maybe a couple of feet down. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to hide a thick plastic trowel near your cache too. (I say plastic in that role since a metal one will easily corrode over time kept constantly in a hidden spot outdoors.) What to put in the container?....

    All of the basic BOB categories should be covered. For example: Ferro rod and striker, good quality S.S. knife, water purification pills, heavy-duty quart ziplock baggie (to use as water container to purify water), some paracord, and definitely a couple of freeze-dried meals or MRE entrees-only, etc. Why go to the trouble of burying a cache close to your BOL?....

    Imagine getting there, the supplies in your BOB are low and.... You see your BOL has people living in it.

    Yeah, not expecting that. But, it can happen. Maybe not if your BOL is an underground bunker. (Especially one of those new ones being advertised for those with plenty of disposable income. To put it mildly. There are companies out there that can build you underground units complete with luxury accommodations. Most impressive one I've seen is made from a few sections of cylinder placed horizontally. Yes, your new home will be domed. But the floor is half-way through the cylinder. So, plenty of storage space under your floor. Honestly, if I had the money, I'd buy property in the mid-west, put a normal home on it, put my BOL underneath my property. My Bug out journey would be 10 feet of running to my BOL. Yeah, I'd try to get a job that would let me work from home.)

    But getting back to the situation.... What do you do? Two choices, basically. You can go in, or leave. If you decide the group that took over is just too prone to use violence, you'll still need to replenish some supplies. So, you go to your cache. Now you can at least move on with more supplies. You could decide to go in. But now you have another choice.... Let the family in your BOL know it's yours' but you're willing to share. Hope that none of the parents decide they're not going to share your food with you (as messed up as that sounds), and commit violence against you anyway. Or, you can use the threat of force to kick them off your BOL. Even a desperate and hungry man is going to choose to leave and live, rather than risk getting shot by the rightful property owner.

    That's a moral issue for everyone to decide on their own. But that's why an e-tool or trowel in the old BOB is a good idea. Getting back to an earlier post, it's especially good if you've been separated from your BOB; and only have the little fanny-pack or large belt case on your hip to survive on now. In that case, the plastic, hidden, trowel would be needed. Also, let's stack the deck some more. No reason you can't have more than one cache. (Just realize that any of them can be stumbled onto and taken by anyone. So, don't put your best or any expensive items into the containers.)

    You should have a primary route, and at least two alternate routes to your BOL. You can plant a cache along all three routes. Once again, the items don't need to be very expensive.

    Another reason an e-tool or trowel is a good idea.... You stop to camp. You start setting up camp. You then find some used toilet-paper behind a bush. And it's fresh. Okay, you know someone is in the area. Time to get out of there! The flip side is, let's say that's your recent T.P. at the site. Now imagine someone finding that. Someone hungry, desperate, perhaps at the point now where hurting or killing another human-being for food and supplies is a very real option for them. Now they know that someone is nearby. Someone who packed toilet-paper with them. That means they likely packed other things as well. Food, shelter, maybe even a gun. Now this desperate and hungry individual is going to very quietly search for YOU.

    Bury your scat. Maintain that low-profile. Consider a good e-tool or at very least a good S.S. folding trowel.

    I'd like to thank YouTuber Survival Lilly for the excellent idea of burying a cache near your BOL. You guys know me. And you know I don't promote individual YouTubers or their channels. But that idea was not one of mine, nor one found in one of Creek Stewart's books. Just giving credit where it's due.
    Last edited by Monocrom; 07-29-2016 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Clarification.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  21. #141
    Flashaholic Going_Supernova's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    You have some good points there, Monocrom. However, depending on the climate and location of your BOL, it may be best NOT to bury your cache. I live in Kansas, and in the dead of winter, the ground freezes HARD! Trying to dig up my immediately and desperately needed supplies from frozen ground with a plastic or SS trowel isn't a good scenario at all. I also metal detect, and frozen ground is not easy to dig into, so most MDers skip winter detecting and wait for the thaw. So, I would recommend that in locations where the ground can freeze, caches be located above ground.

    Also, in the event of occupation of a BOL by another party, IMO you have only 4 possible options:

    1) Make them allies. But the downside is that they will consume some of your resources.

    2) Capture them, and keep them as prisoners. However this option also includes them consuming your resources, plus the difficulty of guarding them.

    3) Eliminating them. The downside is that you will have to dispose of the bodies for sanitary reasons. This option may also pose moral and ethical difficulties for you or others in your group. The obvious advantages are you don't have to share resources, and you maintain OPSEC.

    4) Abandoning the BOL to the interlopers. The downside to this option is fairly obvious--great inconvenience to possible death.

    Simply pushing them out cannot be an option, as they will then be able to attempt to retake the location, as well as coming back with others (so an OPSEC problem).

    Option 2 seems to be the least desirable, and whether one chooses option one or option three will likely depend on who the interlopers are, your strength, and the amount of resources available to share. Option 4 might be doable if you have an alternate BOL that you could reach.
    Shrek:Listen, little donkey, take a look at me! What am I?
    Donkey:Ah... really tall?
    Shrek:No! I'm an OGRE! You know, "grab your torch and pitchforks!"

  22. #142

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    An excellent point about Winter issues. Sadly, you just can't prepare for everything that is realistically a possibility. I know of quite a few individuals who rely on a 3-Season tent as their main shelter in their BOB. They then hope that a combination of a very warm sleeping bag and a thicker than usual space blanket (ex: SOL Escape Bivy) will compensate for the possibility they might have to bug out during Winter.

    Placing a cache above ground is an intriguing idea. I just can't think of a way to do it that won't cause it to be found, seen, or accidentally stumbled onto in a much easier way than burying it. I've considered various containers, and camo covers. But am still drawing a blank. If anyone has any ideas, please post.

    Main thing to keep in mind is that the caches are containers for supplemental items. Good to have as an option, but you should be able to make it with just the contents in your BOB or, if no choice in the matter, just the items in your fanny pack or large belt-case kit. Like a 3-Season tent, the odds are 75% in your favor that you'll be able to access the cache (assuming someone else didn't stumble onto it). There's also the possibility that you'll still be in your BOV (bug out vehicle) when you reach your cache. Currently, I have a sedan. But a slightly compact full-sized shovel easily fits in the trunk. Winter unearthing will take plenty of elbow grease, but should be successful.

    Forgot to add in my last post.... Be sure to toss in plenty of silica gel and cover the opening with plenty of duct tape or electrical tape after closing the lid. Moisture is the enemy.

    As far as finding someone at your BOL:

    1) I just don't think it's a good option. Yes, it's an option. But too many variables involved. You're not likely to get like a family or random group of survivors who are like-minded. One of them might decide, "Hey, if we kill the owner, we can act like this is our property if the cops stop by."

    2) Not a good option if you're by yourself or with one other person. A small group will be hard to watch 24/7. There's also the moral aspect of doing that. And you still lose a good chunk of your resources keeping them fed. For how long? Possibly months at a time. A well-equipped BOL will only have 3-6 months of food & supplies. If yours' is at the lower end, now it's only going to be a month's worth. Maybe a bit more. And if the prisoners ever get loose....

    3) It's an option. Ask any gravedigger though and they'll tell you that digging a 6-foot deep hole to accommodate a body is far harder than it looks. Murderers have been found after they dropped dead from massive heart-attacks while trying to dig a grave deep enough to bury their victims. Though if you have help, digging the hole is realistically not that hard. There's a few other steps involved that I'll be leaving out of this discussion since we're on a family friendly forum. But honestly, the moral and legal issues will be much harder to deal with than the technical ones.

    4) The easiest option in terms of dealing with intruders. Though it might not be a realistic one if you're traveling with your family that includes small children and elderly relatives.

    Kicking out one guy or a small family might be viable if you have enough people and guns in your group to put up a large show of force. But on your own against even a small group.... It's not going to be a realistic option.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  23. #143

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    This thread has left useful information, and gone into fantasy B movie fiction.

  24. #144

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by braddy View Post
    This thread has left useful information, and gone into fantasy B movie fiction.
    Please feel free to elaborate. Which discussion points do you feel are unrealistic fantasy? If it's my suggestion to travel the route you'll be taking to your BOL to judge distance + fuel consumption from your BOV, and perhaps bury a small cache along the way.... I should point out that both aspects of preparing for a realistic disaster are advocated by several preparedness experts. With Lilly being the one who advocates placing a cache NEAR your BOL.

    If that or any other aspect feels B-movie-ish to you, feel free to go into detail about why you believe it is. Also, I know that mood is difficult to convey over an internet forum. If I'm coming off as sounding a bit sarcastic, please know that is not my intent.

    The biggest B-movie-ish aspect of bugging out is the fantasy that many people have. (Though I'd say those participating in this topic seem to get it.) It's not some heroic or exciting event. (Well, it's exciting. But for all the wrong reasons. Like going to a live Rammstein concert. Oh! It's going to be VERY exciting! And you're going to wish it wasn't.)

    The reality is, you're a refugee with little more than the clothes on your back, the contents of your BOB, and maybe your vehicle. It's a traumatic and harrowing experience to actually bug out. It's a bit of a "cute" term. But it boils down to abandoning your home (maybe permanently) to literally try for better odds of surviving. Not even continuing to survive. But just to increase your odds of it. Also, bugging out isn't just about surviving Armageddon. It could be a temporary natural disaster. Your home in California being in the path of wild fires. Or, living near the shore with Hurricane Sandy only hours away. When you take off, you're bugging out. And once again, you need to stack the deck in your favor, any way you can. If you disagree, once again, please feel free to go into detail about which aspects of this discussion you feel are not realistic.
    Last edited by Monocrom; 07-31-2016 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Clarification.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    The point is let's keep it to the gear in your kits and not how to dispose of bodies. All good?

  26. #146

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    The point is let's keep it to the gear in your kits and not how to dispose of bodies. All good?
    I agree. That's why I left the specific details of that macabre subject out of the topic. I suppose this is the part where I say I thoroughly researched the subject for an intense criminology class years ago, before other members start getting the wrong idea. Thanks for letting me clarify that.

    Back to gear, tools, and kit items.

    Edit:

    Speaking of which, I'm just about to wrap up evaluating a certain piece of gear that might just be ideal for inclusion in a BOB or a belt-kit back-up BOB as descriibed earlier in the topic. Very excited about it. Disappointed that every YouTube vid. I've seen has failed to point out the negatives. I'll post an honest review of it in a couple of days when I finish up.
    Last edited by Monocrom; 08-02-2016 at 08:29 AM. Reason: See Above.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  27. #147
    Flashaholic Going_Supernova's Avatar
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    Smile Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Got my new ferro rods in the mail yesterday, and have them in the plastic boxes that my two MSR Pocket Rockets store in. They in turn are zipper bagged with cook kits containing the stove fuel canisters. I'm slowly getting prepared.
    Thanks Baden-Powell, thanks BSA!
    Shrek:Listen, little donkey, take a look at me! What am I?
    Donkey:Ah... really tall?
    Shrek:No! I'm an OGRE! You know, "grab your torch and pitchforks!"

  28. #148

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    If you're storing them for now, give them a coat of clear nail polish or a coat of lacquer. Long-term storage, the iron in the rods starts to break down over time. When ready to use, just scrap off the polish or lacquer.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  29. #149

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Hey guys, so here's my review of a certain little something. As far as non-specific items go, that's not possible when you're dealing with something that's the only one of its kind out on the market. I predict other companies, especially this company's biggest competitirs, will soon offer something along the same lines. But until Victorinox, SOG, or Gerber do, Leatherman has the market for outdoor-specific multi-tools all to themselves.

    So, here's my review of The Leatherman Signal.

    Bought this several days back. Wanted it right away after watching a few YouTube reviews. Paid a premium at a certain Brick & Mortar shop that will be unnamed due to the fact that a week later they almost cheated me, a regular customer, on the price of a Leatherman Juice CS4. It may have been an honest mistake. But, no; I just did not get the feeling that it was. So, it'll be a long time 'til they see me there again. Back to the Signal....

    Let's just get this out of the way because it's going to be one of the first questions asked: "Is it gimmicky?"

    A bit, yes. Then again, that can't be helped on something like a full-sized multi-tool with wilderness survival options incorporated into it. There is a huge size limit to bear in mind. If you're putting together a small FAK (First-Aid Kit) for example, you can't simply toss in a regular tube of antibiotic ointment since it'll either not fit in the case, or will take up too much room by itself. So instead, you toss in a couple of thin, small, travel packets of ointment instead. In a way, Leatherman had to do the same thing.

    A proper, full-sized ferro rod and whistle was just not going to fit. So, they made ultra-compact versions of both to fit inside one handle slab. By necessity, that means no other tools are going to fit into that slab. Just the way it is. The yellow color scheme of that combo tool contributes to its gimmicky look. However, in the handle, it sits very securely. No wobble, no movement. It doesn't interfere with your grip if you're using the pliers. Another reason for the "gimmick" image is that some think this combo tool is meant to replace or back-up a bigger ferro rod, and a full-size or slightly compact whistle.

    No! Someone else put it best when they described it as "A back-up to a back-up, to a back-up, to a back-up." That's exaggerating just a bit though. You should have at least three different methods of starting a fire in your BOB. And a compact ferro rod & striker in your belt-carried back-up to your BOB. The Signal simply provides another option with an outdoor based multi-tool for wilderness survival or a bug out scenario. Also, for such a thin ferro rod, I like that it's supported by the plastic whistle housing. Rods that thin have a tendency to snap in half. The combo tool simply snaps into place. To remove it, carefully pull back on a skeleton latch, making sure it doesn't come flying out of the handle slab. The whistle is another issue. You simply MUST practice and experiment with blowing it to get it to consistently make noise. Otherwise it won't.

    One method that works consistently for me is to hold it in between my thumb and fore-finger on each side where the plastic is most abundant. Place my lower lip into that lower curved portion that seems specifically designed for your lower lip, then bring my upper lip down onto the whistle and put my lips together to generate sound. The whistle is loud, but noticeably less so than a Fox 40 or other whistles specifically designed for use outdoors.

    The other gimmicky thing is the litlle diamond dust impregnated sharpener with a yellow handle and 1-inch sharpening surface. It works! And it can sharpen serrations as well as straight edges. Also, unlike the diamond file on the Leatherman Wave, you can use the sharpener on the Signal to sharpen its main blade. The sharpener snaps onto place on the outside of one handle slab, and stays there. No horribly loose wobbling at all. You don't get the sense that it'll fall off and you'll lose it while using a different feature on the tool. In fact, that diamond dust surface feels really good when holding the tool in your hand and using the main blade. If Leatherman had made the handle of the sharpener black instead of yellow, it wouldn't be thought of as gimmicky.

    Now with the "gimmicks" out of the way, The main blade is a modified sheep's-foot. With the tip rather thick along the spin. Half serrated, half plain, 420Hc. Making it easy to touch up in the field with the included sharpener or any sharpening stone. (Use the corners of a stone on the serrations.) You don't get a separate plain, and separate serrated blade. It's just another needed compromise. This tool has all the useful features for the outdoors and only a couple of traditional multi-tool ones. The serrations are excellent for making fuzz sticks for a fire or even making larger bits of tinder. For all other cutting chores, really wish Leatherman had stuck with a fully plain edge. The blade locks into the open position thanks to their excellent liner-lock system. It stays rigid without even so much as a thought of wobble. And, unlike Leatherman's Skeletool, the liner is not excessively exposed. Go ahead and bear down on the Signal's handles. I don't recommend trying that on a Skeletool. (While experimenting with one, I was able to consistently get its lock to fail by applying a stronger grip to the handles.)

    The Signal's blade is one-hand opening, but don't expect Spyderco-like smoothness or gentleness on your thumb. (Don't even expect what you'd get on the main blade of a Leatherman Wave.) The blade-opening hole will bite into your thumb. Not a lot. Just a bit. But you'll tell right away that the opening was left rough. That's the only real negative against the main blade though.

    The Saw is across from the blade. It's Leatherman's typical, excellent, mini saw. And, it locks open just as securely as the main blade.... when you can actually get a fingernail under its notch to open it. I'm sorry, but good gracious! Leatherman screwed up in a bone-headed manner here! You'd almost swear that no one tried out the saw during Beta testing. The notch is up front. And there's too much handle material all around it to get the saw out without more than a bit of effort. (If you're a female with strong fingernails, it'll be easier for you.) Simple solution.... You see the cut-out (hole) on the upper portion of the Leatherman Wave's serrated blade? They should have pretended the saw was a serrated blade and placed a hole up there. Easier to open, and now you can do it with one hand! The spine of the saw is what you use to strike the included ferro rod, or any ferro rod. A nice striker on the Signal, a nice back-up striker if you lose your main one.

    The carabiner works as it's supposed to. The bottle-opener feature is on the inside of it, past the shackle. (One of those traditional multi-tool features mentioned above.) Honestly, here's an over-looked gimmick found on the carabiner.... The 1/4 Hex Head driver. Just no. No. It doesn't even use Leatherman's flat bits. Can you use it as a driver? Yes. Is it gonna be awkward as Hell? Oh yes. Honestly, I see it as a Hex Head shaped lanyard hole. The flat portion, reminiscent of the Leatherman MUT, is a solid pounding tool. Sorry, but I'm not calling it a "hammer." If a hammer slips, you're usually fine. If this slips while pounding a nail, you're going to reach for your FAK to treat the injured bottom of your hand. Can you pound tent stakes with it? Yes, but first get a soft camp towel to place over the stake before you start pounding with the Signal. Also, as someone with S.D. training, that solid bottom is going to be handy for pounding something else; if necessary. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

    The shackle has a good amount of resistance. (At least the one on mine.) The tool is not too heavy that you can't hang it from a well-stitched, quality, pack. The tool is 7.5 ounces. Which isn't bad at all. A Leatherman Sidekick is 7 ounces, and a Leatherman Wave is 8.5. But I must say that the Signal just feels heavier in my hand than its specs. indicate. On the carabiner is another tiny, lock device that you can push or pull to lock the handles together, or unlock them.

    This lock is needed since the handles do not close well on their own. They can flop open a bit. And, that might be intentional. For those who own one, the handles can be flipped almost fully open with one hand, nearly as well as a SOG multi-tool. Now that's impressive right there! Just the nature of SOG's multi-tools. But not Leatherman's. So the Signal can be opened one-handed (once the tiny lock is disengaged). Just before the Signal fully opens, you encounter quite a bit of resistance. But by then, you can just open your hand slightly, and use your fingers to compress the handles fully into the open position, exposing the pliers.

    Before we get to the pliers, a quick mention regarding the clip. Thankfully it comes attached. Anytime you order a clip from Leatherman that doesn't normally come attached to a specific multi-tool of their's, you're gambling whether or not it'll actually work! The Leatherman Kick being the worst example of this. Many don't realize it was the official replacement for the now iconic Sideclip model. But you had to order the clip from Leatherman's official website if you wanted to clip the Kick to a pocket. Except, it doesn't work! I know. I ordered one. There is a limit as to how much you can tighten down the clip. Afterwards, the included bolt with the clip just spins in place and the clip wobbles side to side, completely and utterly useless. Thankfully when it was time to replace the Kick, Leatherman included clips on their two replacements right from the factory (the Sidekick, and Wingman models). When they do that, no issues of wobble! And none regarding the Signal's included clip.

    Hope you like it, because the Signal does NOT come with any sort of sheath at all. Use the clip or the carabiner. The clip is nearly straight with a tiny dimple, and it's bright as Hell! Retention is weak due to the design of the clip. But at 7.5 ounces, the weight of the Signal and length of the clip keeps it from falling out of your pants pocket. You might want to consider removing the clip, and giving it a couple of coats of flat black spray paint because even Stevie Wonder could see the shine reflecting off of it. The latitude and Longitude numbers found just below the clip are the coordinates to Leatherman's factory in America. (A nice little touch.)

    The pliers are the absolute best that you can currently get from Leatherman. They come with the replaceable 154CM wire/Hard wire cutters. Excellent if they ever get damaged and you need to replace them. Now, I wouldn't tackle a chain-link fence with a Signal. These wire cutters are not a replacement for a compact pair of bolt cutters which was discussed earlier in this topic. They'll effortless cut through chicken-wire and other thinner fence materials. Simply outstanding.

    Let's get to the three folding tools on the inside of one of the handle slabs. You get Leatherman's flat bit holder. You get a medium flat driver with a flat Philip's driver on the other end. These work well. If you damage one of the driver's, hop onto Leatherman's site and buy a replacement double-headed bit. The bit holder will accommodate all the Leatherman flat bits. But there's no place on the Signal to store extra bits. Also, using bits is definitely not the Signal's strong suit. Just like the Leatherman Skeletool, you can't close the handles shut to use a driver. One arm (handle) is going to extend past the pliers with the other arm down and back. It's an awkward way to use the drivers. But it's a compromise so that the carabiner and its features could be placed on the tool.

    By the way, the can-opener (otherwise very effective) will have to be used in the same way as the bit driver. Which brings us to the awl with the sewing eye.... Good news! This tool can be used with the handles closed and locked into place! (I guess someone at Leatherman realized a compromised-use awl was not a good idea.) Look closely, you'll see that a sliver of the carabiner on one side is cut off. Just a thin sliver. Forming a groove of sorts. The awl fits in a very slim channel away from the other two tools but very close to them. You'll miss it if you don't look carefully. In the extended position, the awl fits into that "groove" right next to the carabiner. You can then lock the handles and use the awl for making repairs to damaged tent, drilling, or punching a new hole in your leather belt from having missed more than a couple of meals. The awl works well enough. Though I've seen more effective designs than what Leatherman chose to go with. Thumbs up for including a sewing eye on the awl.

    However, the lock mechanism used to keep these three tools from closing shut is not Leatherman's excellent liner-lock mechanism. It's their top-lock design, which is far from the best. You don't get horizontal wobble. But you do get vertical wobble. (An issue on other Leatherman tools with top-locking mechanisms.) On these three particular tools, it's not a safety issue. It's just annoting as Hell! Leatherman's less expensive tools that rely on a slip-joint to securely hold the tools open, works better! Significantly so! Yes, the tools can slam shut if you apply pressure in the wrong direction. But the non-locking models easily feel better built with the tools staying rigid in the open position.

    I think I've pretty much covered everything. This tool has a couple of other disadvantages.

    One, price. At $100 retail, this will turn off certain buyers. Yes, you are paying for the R&D that went into creating the Signal. You absolutely are. There is a feeling of quality to this tool. Except for the plastic parts and the tiny bit of wobble of the three tools mentioned above. But it can't compete with other Leathermans in this price-range. It comes close. But I can see this tool at around $75 or $80 at most. Not $100. And if you buy from a B&M shop, expect to pay more. I'd say, check Amazon for bargains. Might be a bit early to check Flea Bay, but I can see how some folks might have Buyer's remorse. Along with price, the ferro rod (and the attached whistle) will have to be replaced if you use it a couple of times. That's more money to Leatherman.

    Two, It might be best to perhaps wait around for the Signal 2.0 model to come out. This was, overall, a good effort by Leatherman to make a dedicated outdoors multi-tool. But not a great effort. Just a few details that need to be fixed.

    Three, on a different forum site I saw two guys discussing this tool. One of them owned it, and had gotten rid of the two yellow "gimmicks." The other guy was praising him for it. Honestly, if you plan to get rid of the yellow tools after buying a Signal.... You bought the wrong multi-tool. Those items are there for a reason.

    To wrap up, yeah; I should have at least bought mine from Leatherman's official website and not paid the premium. Oh well, I knew what I was doing. Just realize if you pay retail for one, you're overpaying for it. But I still love mine! I'm glad I've got it. And ironically, it also makes a great full-sized multi-tool that can be EDCed! I've been doing it. It's nice having a full-sized multi-tool that doesn't require a sheath, or is missing items like the saw, awl, functional carabiner, etc.

    If you can get past the price and the image others have of it being too gimmicky, it's a very good first effort by any company to make a non-urban multi-tool. Mine will find its way into my BOB or belt-carried back-up BOB. That is, if I can stop EDCing the darn thing.

    Shot of one side of the Signal, with main blade and saw folded up. Overall construction is what you'd expect from a Leatherman tool. Very nice. Also, you can sort of see the "groove" for the awl on this side of the carabiner.


    Flip side of the Signal. Check out that long, sleek, not-so-well-designed-clip.


    Thickness of the Signal, with sharpener in place.


    Signal in hand with knife in the open position.
    Last edited by Monocrom; 08-04-2016 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Added photos + fixed typos.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  30. #150

    Default Re: The long list of potentially useful stuff in bug out, SHTF, car kits, and more...

    Ta for that massive review. I have had too many leather and rust.
    What do you mean they blew up the death star.......... Wait....What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?

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