What is the legality of buying Surefire flashlights whole online in large quantities and selling the parts on ebay? Are there any laws that are broken by this process? Seems to me like SF would not like this, but can any legal action be taken?
Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts?
- Thread starter ResQTech
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PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
A SureFire chop shop? It seems to me that if you have bought the lights, you can do with them what you will. There might be a question about warrantee of any reconstructed lights. But I can't imagine that SF would have any legal recourse to reselling anything. (I'm not a legal professional -- this is just an educated guess.)
Paul
A SureFire chop shop? It seems to me that if you have bought the lights, you can do with them what you will. There might be a question about warrantee of any reconstructed lights. But I can't imagine that SF would have any legal recourse to reselling anything. (I'm not a legal professional -- this is just an educated guess.)
Paul
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
It would seem to me that as long as you don't use parts to build, and sell your own brand of flashlight, there would not be much of a case.
It would seem to me that as long as you don't use parts to build, and sell your own brand of flashlight, there would not be much of a case.
tylerdurden
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I don't see a problem with using them to build and sell your own brand of flashlight, either, as long as you don't use the "Surefire" trademark. I can buy parts at Home Depot and re-sell them in a creation of my own, what's special about Surefire's products?
I don't see a problem with using them to build and sell your own brand of flashlight, either, as long as you don't use the "Surefire" trademark. I can buy parts at Home Depot and re-sell them in a creation of my own, what's special about Surefire's products?
NeonLights
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
Just type in "Surefire" in a search on ebay, and a lot of the auctions that will come up will be for a guy that apparently buys whole SF lights and parts them out. Looks like he has been doing it for awile, his ebay user name is even "surefireparts".
-Keith
Just type in "Surefire" in a search on ebay, and a lot of the auctions that will come up will be for a guy that apparently buys whole SF lights and parts them out. Looks like he has been doing it for awile, his ebay user name is even "surefireparts".
-Keith
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I would think the problem would come in with the patent, irregardless of trademark. Usually re-engineering causes law suits. Wether they win or not, it is sure to cost some bucks.
i.e. Microsoft.com - MikeRoweSoft.com
By the way I think he sold out to cheap.
I would think the problem would come in with the patent, irregardless of trademark. Usually re-engineering causes law suits. Wether they win or not, it is sure to cost some bucks.
i.e. Microsoft.com - MikeRoweSoft.com
By the way I think he sold out to cheap.
Topper
Flashaholic*
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I am inclined to think that once I buy something it is mine to use or sell or throw away or take apart to make something
else. I buy parts on eBay every chance I get.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I am inclined to think that once I buy something it is mine to use or sell or throw away or take apart to make something
else. I buy parts on eBay every chance I get.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
[ QUOTE ]
NeonLights said:
Just type in "Surefire" in a search on ebay, and a lot of the auctions that will come up will be for a guy that apparently buys whole SF lights and parts them out. Looks like he has been doing it for awile, his ebay user name is even "surefireparts".
-Keith
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes and he's a well known member here. I've done some business with the great guy, still will, & currently am. And I think it's awsome what he's doing. If it weren't for him, how else would we be able to replace a worn out or damaged part of our Surefires. Surefire don't sell parts seperately.
[ QUOTE ]
NeonLights said:
Just type in "Surefire" in a search on ebay, and a lot of the auctions that will come up will be for a guy that apparently buys whole SF lights and parts them out. Looks like he has been doing it for awile, his ebay user name is even "surefireparts".
-Keith
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes and he's a well known member here. I've done some business with the great guy, still will, & currently am. And I think it's awsome what he's doing. If it weren't for him, how else would we be able to replace a worn out or damaged part of our Surefires. Surefire don't sell parts seperately.
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
[ QUOTE ]
Topper said:
I am inclined to think that once I buy something it is mine to use or sell or throw away or take apart to make something
else. I buy parts on eBay every chance I get.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But that isn't the issue. Taking Surefire engineered, patented, and manufactured bezels, and other parts to make Willy Wonkas Wonder lights, without a release, and for profit is still bound to get you into court. Buying SF parts, and putting together a SF light for resale would be hard for anyone to argue.
[ QUOTE ]
Topper said:
I am inclined to think that once I buy something it is mine to use or sell or throw away or take apart to make something
else. I buy parts on eBay every chance I get.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But that isn't the issue. Taking Surefire engineered, patented, and manufactured bezels, and other parts to make Willy Wonkas Wonder lights, without a release, and for profit is still bound to get you into court. Buying SF parts, and putting together a SF light for resale would be hard for anyone to argue.
Topper
Flashaholic*
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I hope I have something in the mail from him today.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
I hope I have something in the mail from him today.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
Topper
Flashaholic*
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
What about all the Modders out there? Sorry if I missed the issue.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
What about all the Modders out there? Sorry if I missed the issue.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Bravo25
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
If I have my Chevy tricked out, and sell it, for reasonable cost plus expenses, I have done nothing wrong. If I take Ford engines, Chevrolet bodies, build a bunch of "Wizbangs". Open up Whatdoyoucare Motors, and start selling the things, I am going to get sued by Ford, and Chevy. Without a release, or contract they are most likely going to win.
I have no problem with what Surefireparts is doing, and encourage him to continue. As someone else said it is the only way some of us can get replacement parts.
If I have my Chevy tricked out, and sell it, for reasonable cost plus expenses, I have done nothing wrong. If I take Ford engines, Chevrolet bodies, build a bunch of "Wizbangs". Open up Whatdoyoucare Motors, and start selling the things, I am going to get sued by Ford, and Chevy. Without a release, or contract they are most likely going to win.
I have no problem with what Surefireparts is doing, and encourage him to continue. As someone else said it is the only way some of us can get replacement parts.
Topper
Flashaholic*
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
O.K Bravo25, I think I got it that time. Still not sure as to the problem. If I buy a Ford & Chevy, they are mine.
If I start pulling parts from both and slap it together then sell it as "Toppers Turbo Crap" I am not sure at all that it is a problem. I bought the Ford bought the Chevy. Both parties were paid for there product. They got their money up front. I am not a lawyer but I act like one in New Jersey.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
O.K Bravo25, I think I got it that time. Still not sure as to the problem. If I buy a Ford & Chevy, they are mine.
If I start pulling parts from both and slap it together then sell it as "Toppers Turbo Crap" I am not sure at all that it is a problem. I bought the Ford bought the Chevy. Both parties were paid for there product. They got their money up front. I am not a lawyer but I act like one in New Jersey.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
tylerdurden
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
Bravo,
If I buy a ford engine and put it into a chevy chassis and resell it, what wrong have I comitted? It's not patent infringement, because I bought the engine and the chassis. If on the other hand, I build an engine from scratch that matches ford's patent, I have infringed. The patent gives them a monopoly on the production of the design. It does not prevent me from buying and reselling their product (in any form). Trademark law *would* prevent me from selling my hybrid vehicle as a "Ford Whatever" or a "Chevy Thingamajig".
Bravo,
If I buy a ford engine and put it into a chevy chassis and resell it, what wrong have I comitted? It's not patent infringement, because I bought the engine and the chassis. If on the other hand, I build an engine from scratch that matches ford's patent, I have infringed. The patent gives them a monopoly on the production of the design. It does not prevent me from buying and reselling their product (in any form). Trademark law *would* prevent me from selling my hybrid vehicle as a "Ford Whatever" or a "Chevy Thingamajig".
rlhess
Enlightened
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
Putting a Ford engine in a Chevy will probably get you in trouble with the DOT or EPA or whoever approves cars. You may not be able to pass state inspection....but that's a different issue.
Cheers,
Richard
Putting a Ford engine in a Chevy will probably get you in trouble with the DOT or EPA or whoever approves cars. You may not be able to pass state inspection....but that's a different issue.
Cheers,
Richard
FlashlightOCD
Enlightened
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I see nothing legally or ethically wrong here ... for many years junk yards have bought junker cars and sold them for parts and scrapped what could not be sold.
The only issue might be if the junkyard sold them as authorized factory replacement parts. I believe surefireparts plainly states in his eBay offerings that he is not in any way affiliated with Surefire.
I see nothing legally or ethically wrong here ... for many years junk yards have bought junker cars and sold them for parts and scrapped what could not be sold.
The only issue might be if the junkyard sold them as authorized factory replacement parts. I believe surefireparts plainly states in his eBay offerings that he is not in any way affiliated with Surefire.
Topper
Flashaholic*
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
Rlhess, I just noticed you were in California. Took me awhile to understand DOT & EPA I am in Arkansas and I think the "Rules" are diffent here. Heck we still got guns&knives!
I do not wish to engage in P P contest however there are many cars that would pass here as well as in many "free" States that would fail where you are at. Now that the TERMINATOR is at the helm perhaps thing will change.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Rlhess, I just noticed you were in California. Took me awhile to understand DOT & EPA I am in Arkansas and I think the "Rules" are diffent here. Heck we still got guns&knives!
I do not wish to engage in P P contest however there are many cars that would pass here as well as in many "free" States that would fail where you are at. Now that the TERMINATOR is at the helm perhaps thing will change.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
Arc uses the Kroll switch and nevertheless sell their lights as Arc lights. They use Luxeons and are stil Arc, etc.
Shouldn't be a problem with SF either, at least when looked upon with a logical approach.
bernhard
Arc uses the Kroll switch and nevertheless sell their lights as Arc lights. They use Luxeons and are stil Arc, etc.
Shouldn't be a problem with SF either, at least when looked upon with a logical approach.
bernhard
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
A couple general observations (that is not specific in any way to any facts that may have been presented here):
First, there is a doctrine in the patent called "exhaustion," which may restrict a patentee's rights post sale. For example, a resale of a car containing components covered by patents may implicate the doctrine. Restrictions on the use of patented devices post-sale may also have antitrust implications.
Second, the filing of patent lawsuits often presents a complex and expensive issue for a patentholder. A threat of legal action relating to a patent may expose a patentholder to a declaratory judgment action in a forum not of the patentees choosing which can put patents at risk.
Patent litigation is usually very expensive -- it is not uncommon for the lawyer's fees alone being in the millions of dollars for the prosecution of an infringement action through trial. Discovery, the formal process by which information relating to an action is elicited can be costly not only in dollars, but in the loss of time of key employees -- individuals whose time and attention might be better spent on actually doing business. The patentee usually must ask itself whether the likely remedies are worth the costs and the potential downside including loss of the relevant patents.
Just as with the old warning, "Don't do this at home," patent law often presents such a range and cmplexity of issues that are often best handled with the assistance of competent (and unfortunately often expensive) counsel.
A couple general observations (that is not specific in any way to any facts that may have been presented here):
First, there is a doctrine in the patent called "exhaustion," which may restrict a patentee's rights post sale. For example, a resale of a car containing components covered by patents may implicate the doctrine. Restrictions on the use of patented devices post-sale may also have antitrust implications.
Second, the filing of patent lawsuits often presents a complex and expensive issue for a patentholder. A threat of legal action relating to a patent may expose a patentholder to a declaratory judgment action in a forum not of the patentees choosing which can put patents at risk.
Patent litigation is usually very expensive -- it is not uncommon for the lawyer's fees alone being in the millions of dollars for the prosecution of an infringement action through trial. Discovery, the formal process by which information relating to an action is elicited can be costly not only in dollars, but in the loss of time of key employees -- individuals whose time and attention might be better spent on actually doing business. The patentee usually must ask itself whether the likely remedies are worth the costs and the potential downside including loss of the relevant patents.
Just as with the old warning, "Don't do this at home," patent law often presents such a range and cmplexity of issues that are often best handled with the assistance of competent (and unfortunately often expensive) counsel.
JonSidneyB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Legality of buying SF lights and selling parts
I am thinking that Surefire would not mind anyway...they are getting thier sale of a flashlight that they built. This is parts rather then whole lights being sold so they are also going to someone who has already bought a Surefire light.
I am thinking that Surefire would not mind anyway...they are getting thier sale of a flashlight that they built. This is parts rather then whole lights being sold so they are also going to someone who has already bought a Surefire light.
