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Thread: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Unhappy highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Hello everyone , -
    whats the highest latest 5000k HCRI led available in comparison with say the nichia 219?.
    Even though 5000k HCRI is great for colour rendition, would it strain the eyes at night being part of cool white gang right?.

    The 4000k HCRI would be best of both right?, or no?.
    im not sure if nichia has a 5000 HCRI yet.

    many say 5000k HCRI is the ultimate, but is it really?.
    For a sinner custom copper 18650.

    Thank you.
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  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Str8stroke's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    I am almost afraid to give a answer. This one could be a subjective can of worms. I guess I am saying, when getting into color ranges, led discussions become very personal. I guess on average FOR ME, the 5K does look and work great. However, I think now, 4k is the ultimate for my eyes. I used to be a 5Ker, but after using 4K for a few weeks it has grown on me.

    Looking at your signature list, you have bunch of 4Ks, what about a 5K? I would have no problem with a 5K Sinner. I own one. Besides, the light is easy to work on, and if you have the time and simple skills, you can swap out the leds quite easily should you choose.
    Good luck my friend.
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  3. #3
    Flashaholic* emarkd's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    To answer your question directly, I think the highest CRI emitters right now are coming from Osram's Oslon Square line. They have 5000K+ emitters with 90+ CRI. But you seem to already know something about those since you have some in your sig Nichia has indicated that they're working on some high-CRI emitters with cooler tints but I don't think those have actually materialized yet.

    But more generally I have to agree with str8stroke. There's just too much personal preference involved for anybody to say what's best. A few thoughts though:

    * I don't think 5000K is "cool white". A good 5000K tint is actually very close to true neutral. That said, for someone used to a lot of 4000K emitters it may come off as a bit cool to you. I personally like 5000K when its completely neutral with little or no off-colors. For a good 5000K emitter that's easy to get and looks and performs great, I love the newer Nichia 219c. I've put those in several of my lights. They're only 80+ CRI though, which isn't bad but isn't oslon square territory either. There's also the Cree EasyWhite line of emitters that basically "cheats" by putting multiple emitters on one die to get a blend of light, resulting in better coverage of the color spectrum. They're not so easy to work with since they pretty much require either frosted glass or really aggressive OP reflectors. Its also a very clean light though. I love my Zebralight H600Fd III with this emitter.

    * Barring those options, there's certainly nothing wrong with going warmer to get better color. That's really what I usually do, too. I think 4500K is probably my "favorite" tint, whatever that means. I still love the Nichia 219b SW45 emitter for its color, they just aren't very efficient. So I built a big triple using those so that I can get ~1200 lumens of super clean 4500K 92 CRI light when I want it. I've also got several 4000K lights that I also really like as long as the tint doesn't drift too far into the "piss yellow" area, and using a higher efficiency emitter than the 219b means getting a lot more light.

    I guess what I'm really saying is that there's still no one super-emitter that does it all. I wish there was.

  4. #4

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    As everybody has said, it really is all about personal preference. However, there are Nichia emitters with 90+ CRI and 5000k plus CCT. The Nichia 219B V1 comes in a SW57 tint that's rated at 5700 kelvin, but is more like around 5400 kelvin.

    Here is an example of a cheap light that comes with such an LED: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...igh-CRI-18650)

    I was so intrigued with this light that I had to pick one up myself (because for the longest time I was after a light with a high CRI nichia with higher CCT, as I found the tint of the SW45 at 4500kelvin too tannish.)

    I think the light is cheap enough that you can get one and experiment to see if the tint is right for you or not. As far as the light looking too cool, I say that in general, it really isn't that cool looking. The light has a high amount of deep red (R9) rendition-- even higher than the 4500k Nichias, so it has a lot of inner warmth to it. In fact, its combination of pure whiteness, combined with its high amount of deep red rendering, makes my 4500k Nichia look a tad green in comparison. The difference is especially noticeable on skin tones, where the 4500k 219B looks nowhere near as natural as the 5400k 219B V1.

    As far as LEDs that are available in 5k + CCT with high CRI, Cree makes their XHP series LEDs available in high CRI with high CCTs, Osram makes such LEDs as well, and so does Yuji. Here is a video showing off the color rendering prowess of a sunlight balanced LED (5600k) with 96 CRI from Yuji. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LWXznJx_0. These are all just the LED modules though, and you'd have to custom build a flashlight to put them in a host. I'm not aware of any flashlight that comes standard with them. Zebralight has plans on an SC600F with one such high CRI (93-95) rated at 5000k, but it isn't on the market yet.

    As you can see, the color accuracy of the Yuji is stupidly good, however the LED itself is very big and a power hungry monster. It can't be used in a normal sized flashlight; but it gives a taste of just how warm and accurate high CRI lights in the 5500k+ kelvin range can be when there's a healthy amount of deep red saturation.
    Last edited by twistedraven; 03-17-2016 at 08:29 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

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    Last edited by MrNeal; 04-09-2016 at 09:34 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Here is a comparison of the 219B SW45 90+ CRI 4500k against the 219 V1 SW57 90+ CRI 5400k. Both shots were white balanced to daylight, and are close to what I see with my eyes in a completely dark room with no light, both lights were at around 100 lumens and diffused using a Nitecore diffuser. My camera is an older point and shoot, and doesn't have the best fidelity at low-light shots like this, but this does at least give the essence of of the broad differences between the two lights, and is reasonably accurate.



    As you can see, the SW45 tint makes my hand look a bit copper in comparison-- like an artificial orange tan, while the SW57 makes my hand look more pinky flesh, as would be seen under sunlight. Both of these lights are very good at rendering skin tones though, and any other non hi-cri led would look quite a bit green or blue in comparison.
    Last edited by twistedraven; 03-17-2016 at 08:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    is there anywhere now to purchase 5000k OSRAM OSLONS anymore?.
    what could be an alternative?.
    USA.
    thanks.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Here is a shot of 4000K vs 5000K nominal converted in ACR/Photoshop with same +25 red tint at 5000K white balance. Both are the Cree Easywhite emitter at 83-85 CRI in the same exact light.

    Right 4000K 220 lumen/Left 5000K 240 lumen


    I prefer 4000K for most uses myself, 4500K at the most. 5000K is better for daytime use when extra light is needed but, for everything else 4000K is better imo. 4000K is especially better for late night outdoor use in areas void of artificial light imo and makes trees, grass, leaves foliage look much nicer. YMMV.
    Last edited by Tachead; 03-17-2016 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Brasso's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Nichia makes both a 93 hcri at 4k and a 92hcri at 5k tint emitter.

    My preference is 4k, but everyone's different. I also consider 5k to be in the cool range.

    The photo of the hands above make the 4k look way more yellow than I normally see. To me it looks like a 3000k xpg.
    Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

  10. #10

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    is there anywhere now to purchase 5000k OSRAM OSLONS anymore?.
    what could be an alternative?.
    USA.
    thanks.
    This is my question also, but I am looking for the high CRI Oslons. Anybody have the answer?

    I already have the GW CSSRM1.CC-MQMS-5L7N-1-700-R18 4000K 92CRI from Mouser, and also the 3500K and the 2400K for comparison.

    What I want to try, based on the data sheet, is the 3000K or 3500K 95CRI, preferably from a US distributor. Or from overseas with MOQ <20.

    @neutralwhite Mouser does have in stock the 5000K Osram Oslon 80CRI for $1.98.
    Thanks, CPF!

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Thanks, I'm after the 5000k HCRI.
    i know someone who has one but he's keeping it safe from me!.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ladd View Post
    This is my question also, but I am looking for the high CRI Oslons. Anybody have the answer?

    I already have the GW CSSRM1.CC-MQMS-5L7N-1-700-R18 4000K 92CRI from Mouser, and also the 3500K and the 2400K for comparison.

    What I want to try, based on the data sheet, is the 3000K or 3500K 95CRI, preferably from a US distributor. Or from overseas with MOQ <20.

    @neutralwhite Mouser does have in stock the 5000K Osram Oslon 80CRI for $1.98.
    Malkoff Devices MD2 M61T, JetE17A Red AAA.

  12. #12

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    Here is a comparison of the 219B SW45 90+ CRI 4500k against the 219 V1 SW57 90+ CRI 5400k.

    Wow, my 4500K Nichia look nothing like that on the left. I'm glad because that is just too yellow. I doubt you painted your wall mustard yellow The 5000K on the right looks more like my 4500K, which is nice and white.
    GOOD TINT!

  13. #13

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Well, my camera isn't so great in low light situations, so both of these are lacking a bit of red to them, both left and right.

    However, there's no denying the 4500k Nichia is not pure white; it's on the tanner side of things, and does look indeed orang-yellowish compared to the SW57 tint of the 219B V1, whose hotspot is as pure white as pure white could be, at 5400k. I thought the hotspot of my SC62D (probably around 5200k) was pure white, but it comes off as greenish compared to the 219B V1. I've had 3 different 219B 4500k lights as well, so I doubt I'm the victim of terribly tinted 219Bs.

    Sometime soon I plan on borrowing a family member's DSLR, and making my own lightbox with a top diffuser to do some serious tint comparison for the forum. I was hoping the SC600FD Plus would have been released by then, too.

    Edit: for now, though..
    Last edited by twistedraven; 03-18-2016 at 07:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* KITROBASKIN's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    It's always interesting to read what twistedraven has to say. Hopefully neutralwhite will find what he is looking for in a ~5000K Hi CRI, although it has been pointed out that CRI measurements could use some tweaking for accuracy in real life.

    People who are fond of the incandescent, warm campfire cast, will like 4000K ish. Those who prefer a replication of sunlight on a white cloudy day will want 5000K ish. And to my eyes, those who want highly concentrated moonlight in their hands, will go for 6000K ish.

    Please, neutralwhite, let us know how you outfit your upcoming torch.

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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    It's always interesting to read what twistedraven has to say. Hopefully neutralwhite will find what he is looking for in a ~5000K Hi CRI, although it has been pointed out that CRI measurements could use some tweaking for accuracy in real life.

    People who are fond of the incandescent, warm campfire cast, will like 4000K ish. Those who prefer a replication of sunlight on a white cloudy day will want 5000K ish. And to my eyes, those who want highly concentrated moonlight in their hands, will go for 6000K ish.

    Please, neutralwhite, let us know how you outfit your upcoming torch.
    Just to clear this up a bit... Incandescent and warm campfire cast are much warmer then 4000K. Most incandescents are 2400-3300K and a warm campfire is more like 1700-1850K. A cloudy day is more like 6000-7000K. And, moonlight is 4000K ish.

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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    Well, my camera isn't so great in low light situations, so both of these are lacking a bit of red to them, both left and right.

    However, there's no denying the 4500k Nichia is not pure white; it's on the tanner side of things, and does look indeed orang-yellowish compared to the SW57 tint of the 219B V1, whose hotspot is as pure white as pure white could be, at 5400k. I thought the hotspot of my SC62D (probably around 5200k) was pure white, but it comes off as greenish compared to the 219B V1. I've had 3 different 219B 4500k lights as well, so I doubt I'm the victim of terribly tinted 219Bs.

    Sometime soon I plan on borrowing a family member's DSLR, and making my own lightbox with a top diffuser to do some serious tint comparison for the forum. I was hoping the SC600FD Plus would have been released by then, too.

    Edit: for now, though..
    Thanks for the comparisons twistedraven

    Since you seem to be listing the nominal values, you should probably change your Cree Easywhite example to 5000K as that is what ZL says it is and you wouldnt want to throw people off. Maukka's measurements, if that is what you are going by, is for his particular example and your example could be different. Cree doesnt make a 4800K Eastwhite, only a 4000K or 5000K. It is a 5000K nominal emitter and subject to variance(+ or - 5000K).

  17. #17

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Fixed it.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Brasso's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    That last Nichia photo is 5700K at 90 cri? That does not look like 5700K at all. Compared to the cree xhp35 at the same temp? Something is off.
    Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

  19. #19

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    The XHP35 is rather green, and has poor CRI, and undoubtedly equally as bad R9 (deep red) saturation. It's rated at 5700k, but the actual CCT is unknown. The 219B V1 here on the other hand, is rated at 5700k, but Maukka measured his on his Jaxman to be 5400k-- mine could be similar, but I don't know. The 219B V1 here is also on the pinker side of things, as well as having a substantial amount of R9 rendering (70-80, which is higher than the 4500k 219Bs we're all used to.)


    All of these factors could explain why the two '5700k' lights look completely different.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    So is there any light a Yuji LED can be used in?.
    18650?.

    thanks!.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Isn't there a 96 CRI XHP70 available in 5000K? Expensive and high voltage... but if you want 5000K high CRI it might be the best available.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    thanks but not really made for 18650 lights right such as alpha lights?.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fireclaw18 View Post
    Isn't there a 96 CRI XHP70 available in 5000K? Expensive and high voltage... but if you want 5000K high CRI it might be the best available.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    thanks but not really made for 18650 lights right such as alpha lights?.
    XHP70 really works best on 2 xx650 cells. It is certainly possible, I do have a single 26650 MT-G2 light and that uses the same voltage as XHP70. You could also try 2x18350 for the required 6V over the use of a boost driver.
    Last edited by staticx57; 07-07-2016 at 06:29 PM.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Hi, I got this back from Ted Bai at yuji,and I'm not sure if these can fit an 18650 ;

    Hi Darryl,


    I am not sure about will our LED be able to fit the 18650 battery or not ...
    We have two sizes of "small "LEDs , they are : 2835(2.8 mm X3.5mm) SMD LED and 5730(5.7mm X 3.0mm) SMD LED.
    Please find enclosed datasheet for both of them .
    I am not sure the luminous flux of LED light can used for flashlight.
    Last edited by neutralwhite; 07-08-2016 at 03:28 AM.
    Malkoff Devices MD2 M61T, JetE17A Red AAA.

  25. #25

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Yes, they have a couple of those smallish ones that are 3-4vf typical, and put out around 20-60 lumens each. They also have one that is13.5mm (half an inch) and around 14-16vf that puts out around 1000 lumens. An emitter of that size could only be used on a soda-can style flashlight sporting multiple 18650s and a mule head.

    Either way you're talking about very much custom jobs.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    neutral, did you ever find what you were looking for in regards to the highest CRI led that can be used in a flashlight? im looking to get the highest CRI possible for my grilling flashlight.

  27. #27

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    neutral, did you ever find what you were looking for in regards to the highest CRI led that can be used in a flashlight? im looking to get the highest CRI possible for my grilling flashlight.
    Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus, 93-95 typical CRI & 5000K CCT. Or flashlight with Nichia 219B with 4000K CCT if you prefer a warmer touch.

    If you are ok with even warmer tint, why not try incan lights?

  28. #28
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Quote Originally Posted by TCY View Post
    Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus, 93-95 typical CRI & 5000K CCT. Or flashlight with Nichia 219B with 4000K CCT if you prefer a warmer touch.

    If you are ok with even warmer tint, why not try incan lights?
    good point, i have several surefire incans... idunno, guess its more of a novelty to have a hihg CRI led.

  29. #29

    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    I realize this thread is 3 years old but it's the most helpful one I've found looking for a pocket carry 1x18650 (or a pocketable 1x 21700 if such a unicorn exists). Based on my very limited collection/experience I think a 90+CRI, 5000ish CCT would be my Goldilocks light. Thanks to this thread I've got the Jaxman E2 and the ZL SC600Fd MK IV on my list. Hopefully there are more choices out there now??

  30. #30
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    Default Re: highest 5000k cri vs nichia 219

    Take a look at optisolis range. This is the best thing at the moment. You can get some from Clemence at virence.com, raw or reflowed on dedicated boards ready for installation

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