End user serviceability

Scout24 brought up the subject of end user field serviceability in the incan vs. led thread with regard to the benefits of incans. I have plenty of old incans,there seem to be lights everywhere around the home these days lol,but generally I am an LED guy when it comes to "user" lights. There are/have been various brands in my arsenal- Fenix,4Sevens,Lumapower,Zebralight,Nitecore,Olight have all been in the EDC rotation but they all lack in the way of user serviceability.My latest EDC additions(Olight S1,Zebra SC32) have almost no user serviceability with integrated body switches and no way to replace the lens or optic, a long standing issue with me.That is why I am such a big fan of the Malkoff MD2/M61 and I still like the older Maglites with LED drop-ins for the same reason.
If my MD2 switch fails I can replace it with ease and continue on.If I break or scratch the lens again it is an easy replacement.Even should the unlikely event of a M61 failure occur I can drop-in another. I can do all this without sending in my light and the parts are readily available for purchase.The Malkoffs are not cheap but with a little investment I can keep some spare parts on hand and always have an operational MD2.For my SC32w or S1 my only option is to have spare lights as failures mean a trip back to the mfc. or retailer to get a working light.The vast majority of lights seem to have little or no user serviceability,even the more expensive $100+ lights where having spares can be very costly.I know many of us buy new lights frequently enough that we never see failed switches or excessive wear and tear but I don't really think that should be the only option.It seems the vast majority of LED lights are sealed units.Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are regarding the lack of user serviceability,especially those among us who are buying lights in the higher price range.

Lights like you mentioned can still be serviced yourself when it comes to some things(although not as easily as a Malkoff exc.). It is not very hard to replace a lens in a pressed in bezel light like a ZL or Olight for instance. And, lenses are readily available for not much money if you shop around. The electronics are different matter though but, they are generally pretty reliable. The emitter in these lights is far more reliable/long lasting then a incan bulb too with an average 50000 hour service life and that is only until the light will only output half of its original luminous flux. It could still work for thousands of more hours.

Bulbs/filaments are the weak link with incans as I said in the other thread.

I think a light like a Malkoff is the best option for ultimate field reliability/serviceability myself. That way you get the modular legoability with the reliability/service life of an LED emitter. And, you can keep a variety of spare parts with you including a spare drop in for a very rare driver issue.

For an LED light, how about a Lexan "spare battery tube" which doubled as a fully functioning, skeletonized version of your light?
There'd be the spare switch, spare pill, and spare battery of course.
The light would need to be made to be serviceable, maybe the pill would unscrew from the battery tube end.
The Lexan body would have a small, shallow reflector, same diameter as tube, and tail stand with a collar making the tail switch recessed and well protected from wear.

I agree that the current crop of LED lights, if chosen from a reputable maker, are pretty reliable. I also don't have to dig too deep through the General and LED lighting subforums to see tales of woe regularly posted regarding broken lights that need to be returned for repair, exchanged, or that folks give up on and they gather dust or get tossed after they break. Perhaps the most modular LED designs are those that are not sealed, Malkoff's MD2 and McGizmo's offerings come to mind. If either of those stop making light, all relevant parts can be swapped at my dining room table, on the tailgate of my truck, or in my treestand if I have a small spares kit and a Leatherman with me. Same for my SF incans. A spares carrier with an extra bulb and some cells will see me through. Is a failure likely? No. Are the current LED lights complicated electronic devices with a board or boards populated with small componentry that can fail? Yes. I remember a recent thread where there were 30-some components in a tailcap, for goodness sake. We're not talking end of the world scenarios here, but user serviceability. Edge- Incandescents. :thumbsup: No, I'm not giving up my LED's, but acknowledging another incan benefit. And, glad we have the choices we do.

Tachead said:

Lights like you mentioned can still be serviced yourself when it comes to some things(although not as easily as a Malkoff exc.). It is not very hard to replace a lens in a pressed in bezel light like a ZL or Olight for instance. And, lenses are readily available for not much money if you shop around. The electronics are different matter though but, they are generally pretty reliable. The emitter in these lights is far more reliable/long lasting then a incan bulb too with an average 50000 hour service life and that is only until the light will only output half of its original luminous flux. It could still work for thousands of more hours.

Bulbs/filaments are the weak link with incans as I said in the other thread.

I think a light like a Malkoff is the best option for ultimate field reliability/serviceability myself. That way you get the modular legoability with the reliability/service life of an LED emitter. And, you can keep a variety of spare parts with you including a spare drop in for a very rare driver issue.

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With the lack of efficiency I am not really interested in incans for most of my use.The lack of user serviceability of most LED lights is an issue for me however. The ease of replacement of a pressed in lens may be subjective to the user.My peeve is that the lens is not designed for user replacement.The last I read of a broken Zebralight lens the individual couldn't get a lens from Zebralight and was required to send the light back for repair.I haven't seen much by way of failure in the actual LEDs in my lights and in general my luck with switches has been pretty good.There have been enough reports on cpf to know that the switch is still a failure point on lights though.Sometimes the switch is bad out of the box but other reports indicate switch failure out of the blue when it had been working fine up until that point.An easily replaceable switch would be nice although it may not be possible on the body/bezel types.

I prefer a flashlight with as few parts that can go wrong as possible.
And the more parts I can DIY the better is how my brain likes it.


Now part of the flashlight hobby for some is turning on their latest-greatest gizmo that's been engineered for that perfect tint with enough brightness to rival noon time sunshine that brings on a smile. No thought is given to swapping out parts n pieces. Be-it for repair or fun...they like things as is and have no qualms with somebody else fixing what goes wrong.

Others enjoy tinkering with gadgets whether it be an old fashioned lantern from WW II, a 1997 Mag Lite or a Streamlight Strion LED.... or building something where oven mitts and welding glasses are required.

It's like surfing waves... 2' to 20' it's all about the smile.

bykfixer said:

I prefer a flashlight with as few parts that can go wrong as possible.
And the more parts I can DIY the better is how my brain likes it.


Now part of the flashlight hobby for some is turning on their latest-greatest gizmo that's been engineered for that perfect tint with enough brightness to rival noon time sunshine that brings on a smile. No thought is given to swapping out parts n pieces. Be-it for repair or fun...they like things as is and have no qualms with somebody else fixing what goes wrong.

Others enjoy tinkering with gadgets whether it be an old fashioned lantern from WW II, a 1997 Mag Lite or a Streamlight Strion LED.... or building something where oven mitts and welding glasses are required.

It's like surfing waves... 2' to 20' it's all about the smile.

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The KISS principle is always good I am not as ambitious as you but it is nice to have some DIY potential.As flashlights go,honestly, I like them all. I used Zebralight as an example but they make a nice product and I am still in the market for a few more. Sorry everyone if I sounded mean spirited that was not my intent.I just want to see more user serviceability even if it is only as simple as lens replacement.

scout24 said:

I agree that the current crop of LED lights, if chosen from a reputable maker, are pretty reliable. I also don't have to dig too deep through the General and LED lighting subforums to see tales of woe regularly posted regarding broken lights that need to be returned for repair, exchanged, or that folks give up on and they gather dust or get tossed after they break. Perhaps the most modular LED designs are those that are not sealed, Malkoff's MD2 and McGizmo's offerings come to mind. If either of those stop making light, all relevant parts can be swapped at my dining room table, on the tailgate of my truck, or in my treestand if I have a small spares kit and a Leatherman with me. Same for my SF incans. A spares carrier with an extra bulb and some cells will see me through. Is a failure likely? No. Are the current LED lights complicated electronic devices with a board or boards populated with small componentry that can fail? Yes. I remember a recent thread where there were 30-some components in a tailcap, for goodness sake. We're not talking end of the world scenarios here, but user serviceability. Edge- Incandescents. :thumbsup: No, I'm not giving up my LED's, but acknowledging another incan benefit. And, glad we have the choices we do.

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Incans definitely have an edge but having given over to LEDs I buy them with drop-ins in mind and they still retain the user serviceability.Now that I have some filter material to work with I can make more use of some cheaper drop-ins as most of them are a little to cool for my taste.If in fact SF has stopped production of the G2 and 6P that is a shame.Both serviceable lights following the KISS principle.I have always felt that even for the LED flashoholic the 6P or G2 were must haves just for the perspective of what a decent incan offers.Aside from my lamentations regarding discontinued lights and serviceability we are truly blessed with a wide variety of choices!

This is one area that the old SF had an edge. For example on my G2Z I replaced plastic bezel, glass twice and engine 3 times over the last decade. How is that for end user serviceability? This light is immortal.







And yes it's an LED.

ZMZ67 said:

The KISS principle is always good I am not as ambitious as you but it is nice to have some DIY potential.As flashlights go,honestly, I like them all. I used Zebralight as an example but they make a nice product and I am still in the market for a few more. Sorry everyone if I sounded mean spirited that was not my intent.I just want to see more user serviceability even if it is only as simple as lens replacement.

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^^ Agreed.
Rant on dude.
Love the thread idea.

I avoided anything SolarForce for the longest time being they began as a direct rip off of SureFire... down to the logo but....

When SureFire stopped selling twisty tail caps I sent them an email, not expecting a response (turns out I was correct).

Well when they discontinued everything the general user could easily service (read incan lineup), I sent some dough I saved for more SureFires to China and bought SolarForce hosts, parts and pieces.
Phooey on you SureFire.

The rest went to Malkoff, FiveMega and PK.
For good measure I spent some dough on PowerTac lights as well. All LED lights, all end user servicable. About a months pay SureFire didn't get.

The SolarForce feel like toys. But a body, clicky tail cap, lens, head and bezel for $11+ $2 to ship from China.. ya get what you pay for.
I bought a kid size shoe box of stuff for $60 and had it in about 10 days.

When SureFire made it so I had to declare war on my light to swap to a borofloat lens that comes stock on a Streamlight or impossible to swap a twisty onto my tactical light, I was done with SureFire.

They still sell great products. But they won't get anymore of my money on anything new.

And what happens if the unthinkable and unlikely should occur in the field?





Not much of anything as there is an old (and hardly used) P60L in the SF battery carrier. Heck I could change that in the dark in seconds.



All LED and all no problem.

bykfixer said:

^^ Agreed.
Rant on dude.
Love the thread idea.

I avoided anything SolarForce for the longest time being they began as a direct rip off of SureFire... down to the logo but....

When SureFire stopped selling twisty tail caps I sent them an email, not expecting a response (turns out I was correct).

Well when they discontinued everything the general user could easily service (read incan lineup), I sent some dough I saved for more SureFires to China and bought SolarForce hosts, parts and pieces.
Phooey on you SureFire.

The rest went to Malkoff, FiveMega and PK.
For good measure I spent some dough on PowerTac lights as well. All LED lights, all end user servicable. About a months pay SureFire didn't get.

The SolarForce feel like toys. But a body, clicky tail cap, lens, head and bezel for $11+ $2 to ship from China.. ya get what you pay for.
I bought a kid size shoe box of stuff for $60 and had it in about 10 days.

When SureFire made it so I had to declare war on my light to swap to a borofloat lens that comes stock on a Streamlight or impossible to swap a twisty onto my tactical light, I was done with SureFire.

They still sell great products. But they won't get anymore of my money on anything new.

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Save for the incan models no longer produced I am at an end with SF as well.There are some limitations to heat management I suppose but the 6P is such a great design,just take a look at Woodswalker's fine illustration.Simple as it is the 6P and also the G2 meet my requirements.I was never completely comfortable with Solorforce either but I have picked up a few myself when funds have been insufficient for better and they have worked out well.Besides we have the MD2 now for all our Malkoff M61s

If Streamlight stops putting glass in their microstream I'm done with that one too. Lenses take a terrible beating carried in pocket with a knife, coins, clippers and keys.
I was able to get the one I accidently drowned today going again though. The tailcap switch got wet and was disassembled and dried.

At one point today I dropped my Pelican M6 incan. WHAM! Was going to grease the threads and measure the lens for comparision with a 6P lens when it slipped out of my hand.
It still worked. Phew. But....

Then when I took the head off the body WHAM! dropped the whole head again.
Took the bezel off and... you guessed it, dropped the dang head again. WHAM!

I removed the bulb module from the head and dawg gonnit... WHAM, WHAM! dropped both module and the head.
The impact bent the first thread where the bezel goes...and a square spot on the next couple of threads... All the way to the inside of the head.
Ugh! That Pelican is apparently made of insanely soft metal...well that and concrete is mighty hard.

A half hour later the thread was re-cut, square spot round again, a little dab of silicone grease added and all was right again... especially since the light still works. Mighty tough bulb assembly there.
Oh, and nary a knick on the exterior. Wow!

I put it in a bubble wrap bag from Malkoff after all that. Sheesh.

Never did measure the lens. But did order some spare bulb modules.
End user servicability and the dropsees nearly killed my favorite flashlight today.

That's funny bykfixer, reminds me of when I had my first Real light, a little Surefire E1E. I was showing it off to my landlord, pulled out the bulb and promptly dropped it on the pavement, breaking it. He was really impressed.

^^ Doh!!!
Ugh! Talk about feeling lower than snail belly...

Luv, luv, luv my pelican incan. And was mighty glad it lit after all that.

If it hadn't I'd still have a few of those new Mag ML25's to play with.

eh4 said:

That's funny bykfixer, reminds me of when I had my first Real light, a little Surefire E1E. I was showing it off to my landlord, pulled out the bulb and promptly dropped it on the pavement, breaking it. He was really impressed.

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I hate when that happens.

Tachead said:

I hate when that happens.

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Yes, it was a flashaholic initiation FAIL.
I hate the butterfingers, it happens to the best of us sooner or later, hopefully not often.

Like this thread.

And yet people wonder why Surefire and Maglite are still popular. Yeah, there are a lot of other lights that might do more or do better if you think so, but try fixing them, cannibalizing them, or modding them. Not too many other companies still make it this easy, this flexible, or have the support for it ("in house" or outside vendor).

And both SF and Mag can be brought up to date pretty quickly, despite being thought of as "Antiques". Everyone talks about heat management in P60 hosts, but most lights that size that try to be flamethrowers have a timed or temp stepdown from Turbo anyway. Where's the benefit over P60's? Oveready's new V5 dropin kicks out 3000+ lumens fed properly, and steps down based on temp. Just like the lights that are supposed to be "current tech"... BUT, it's living in your favorite bored SF host. Best of both worlds?

Good point regarding Oveready's drop-ins.Guess I am used to looking at the P60 format as limited in output potential due to heat management but that really is not the case any more than similar sized lights. So much flexability in the P60 format too bad SF has discontinued all the lights that used it.