Are there any 18650 lights that have no stepdown at 1000 lumens?

Animalmother · Apr 15, 2016

Are there any 18650 lights that have no step down at 1000 lumens?

I thought that light was the Thrunite TC12 but it appears to have a stepdown even though it is said to not have a step down in it's reviews.

I like Nitecore allot, I have been a fan of their lights for years(even the beginning when they were so so).

Are there any lights that take a single 18650 that can be regulated good enough to be kept the brightness at a constant and solid 1000ansi lumens from beginning to end without stepping down the slightest(i know the lose brightness slightly naturally from the point turned on after a minute or two)? I know thermal management has allot to play in this but I wondered if such a light exists as every time I use them, I notice the light loss and it actually does kinda bother me. I thought the TC12 was the one but it does appear to step down as much as the others.

Please, keep it friendly.
Any help, and I'd be grateful. Thank you all for helping me in the past.

EDIT:
I just read the Sunwayman G25c has NO STEPDOWN. I do not know if I believe this though. One user has reported he held it in his hand for 5 minutes and it did not get warm with no step down. I thought to myself perhaps he had not noticed it, or maybe it's not a true 1000 lumens. I do not know. The dimming light DOES bother me, I may try the SUnwayman G25C though.

Anyone has any ideas? Not any real testing done on it.

ven · Apr 15, 2016

Your going to struggle in a single 18650 due to mass, looking into dual 18650 lights will get you there,nitecore and Fenix to name 2 brands .

Also look at a 26650 size light, maybe an mtg2 led , comfy in hand size ! This might be a happy medium...

Chicken Drumstick · Apr 15, 2016

Honestly I think you need to read up a little on how these lights work, current technology and their limitations. It'll help you know end. Such as how drivers work and how constant current regulation is achieved.

http://flashlightwiki.com/Driver

An understanding of how ANSI FL1 works will be of benefit too, because it's not as straight forward as you may have thought.

http://flashlightwiki.com/ANSI-NEMA_FL-1

Also what do you mean by beginning to end??

Also I'd be very impressed it you can visually notice many of these step downs. I agree you can on some, but maybe you need something with more of a direct drive gradual reduction in light. This will be much harder to see with the eye, or even just a simpler light. A Convoy S2 or S2+ with the 8*7135 driver might do the trick. It'll get hot, probably hotter than the Nitecore or similar, but assuming the battery is up for it, should stay fairly well regulated. A bigger light physically running the same electronics will handle the heat better, but give similar performance. Maybe a Convoy M1.

KeepingItLight · Apr 15, 2016

This same question came up a few days ago. Both ven and I recommending going with a two-battery solution.

Here is what I wrote:

KeepingItLight said:
In most cases, you cannot go by a flashlight's highest rating. Those are usually "turbo" modes than can only be sustained for short periods. If you truly need a flashlight that is capable of sustaining 1000 lumens, you have to search for something can do twice that much in Turbo mode.

The Nitecore EC4SW and the Nitecore P36 are examples of this. Both have turbo modes that are rated at 2000 lumens. Both are capable of sustained output at 1000.

If I recall correctly, the Nitecore EC4 is an exception. It uses 2x18650 to drive a Cree XM-L2 to a maximum of 1000 lumens. That's a level it can maintain.

subwoofer said:
Peak Beam intensity measured 28400lx @1m giving a beam range of 337m.

There is parasitic drain at 315uA which will fully deplete 3400mAh cells in 1.23 years.

Output on Turbo is never stepped down (partly due to the enhanced heatsinking provided by the die-cast body) and is well regulated for the entire runtime.

[Emphasis added.]

scs · Apr 15, 2016

Animalmother said:
Are there any 18650 lights that have no step down at 1000 lumens?

I thought that light was the Thrunite TC12 but it appears to have a stepdown even though it is said to not have a step down in it's reviews.

I like Nitecore allot, I have been a fan of their lights for years(even the beginning when they were so so).

Are there any lights that take a single 18650 that can be regulated good enough to be kept the brightness at a constant and solid 1000ansi lumens from beginning to end without stepping down the slightest(i know the lose brightness slightly naturally from the point turned on after a minute or two)? I know thermal management has allot to play in this but I wondered if such a light exists as every time I use them, I notice the light loss and it actually does kinda bother me. I thought the TC12 was the one but it does appear to step down as much as the others.

Please, keep it friendly.
Any help, and I'd be grateful. Thank you all for helping me in the past.

EDIT:
I just read the Sunwayman G25c has NO STEPDOWN. I do not know if I believe this though. One user has reported he held it in his hand for 5 minutes and it did not get warm with no step down. I thought to myself perhaps he had not noticed it, or maybe it's not a true 1000 lumens. I do not know. The dimming light DOES bother me, I may try the SUnwayman G25C though.

Anyone has any ideas? Not any real testing done on it.

The review you linked for the TC12 clearly stated direct drive behavior in Turbo mode and the runtime plot shows that: the steady decline from the start. There is no step down, because with its direct drive behavior, step down is unnecessary. The end result, though, is the same, no flat regulation in turbo. Even if heat were not a limiting factor, a buck+boost driver would still be needed to sustain regulation at that level of output. Very few makers put buck+boost drivers in 1x 18650 lights, and of those that do have them, heat is still the limiting factor.

royjohnson77 · Apr 15, 2016

Consumers got to be more realistic! The purpose of the step time in a flashlight is to protect the LED from heating up. What you need is a lantern that stays on high for a lengthy period of time.

monkeyboy · Apr 15, 2016

You won't get flat regulation from any 1000lm 1 x 18650 light as this would require a ~3A boost/buck driver which doesn't exist as far as I know.

Check out the Oveready M2 Mini turbohead with XM-L2 or XP-L. It is direct drive and it maintains over 1000lm throughout most of the runtime. It does get hot with continuous use, but if you handhold it while using outdoors, it's manageable.

CelticCross74 · Apr 15, 2016

I can assure you the Sunwayman does not maintain 1000 lumens for an hour. It drops off either in direct drive fashion or timed step downs. The suggestion in the post above is most realistic. Still the NC EC4 being able to hold max output for that long is simply amazing even for 2x sources

scout24 · Apr 15, 2016

The Malkoff 18650 Hound Dog, 900 at turn on, 800 steady, 650 after an hour is probably pushing the limits of power needed, heatsinking, and longevity of components. Unfortunately, physics is still what it is... Batteries need to catch up, emitters get more efficient, etc. We're not there yet.

ven · Apr 16, 2016

scout24 said:
The Malkoff 18650 Hound Dog, 900 at turn on, 800 steady, 650 after an hour is probably pushing the limits of power needed, heatsinking, and longevity of components. Unfortunately, physics is still what it is... Batteries need to catch up, emitters get more efficient, etc. We're not there yet.

Hound Dog..................i am going to need me one of them!! Seen and heard it too many times now :laughing:

For output and reliability, it seems as good as it gets!

Animalmother · Apr 17, 2016

It took 2 nights to read through all of this(the links), man I have not done research like this on this site since 2010. Thanks for the info now, I understand a bit better now.
Now I can hunt for the light that has pretty high regulated high mode, I've decided to ignore the turbo mode altogether and judge it off it's high mode on a single 18650. Thank you guys for all the help, each post was very informative I thank you all.

The Nitecore MH20 can do 400 pretty well. I do enjoy the beam profile of the TK45, it was the size that bothered me. Can I get that performance with a single18650 pocket sized light or am i being delusional?

ven · Apr 17, 2016

A single 18650 cell, see as (rough n ready example) equivalent to 4 x AA cells roughly in power(but of course more compact). A TK45 can be easily matched for output, but there is a fair bit of mass over a single 18650 form factor.

If i wanted something similar to what you wanted, i would be tempted by a TK35 with either the xhp50 or MT-G2 led. Still compact compared to the tk45, abd will sustain around the output you want for a good duration. Also the NC that KIL suggests would also be strong candidates...............

bykfixer · Apr 17, 2016

PK Warrior II by PowerTac?

How'd that one do for you Scout?
Nobody (at least that I saw) mentioned step down in the 'passaround' and I've yet to see a complete review on it in those terms.

scout24 · Apr 17, 2016

Good call on the Warrior II not having stepdown. I don't recall seeing it, I should have done a runtime test on high when I had it.

bykfixer · Apr 17, 2016

I just figured if it does somebody would've noticed unless it's a gradual thing like the 3 cell Mag ML25 does.

ven · Apr 17, 2016

Must get hot! in that size of light.................cool if it does not step down but i find 1000lm in an 18650 light gets hot within mins............to a point i have to step it down if it does not itself!

bykfixer · Apr 17, 2016

Ven, I use mine on 288 lumen (setting 2) for the throw vs brightness. Anything higher kills my nightvision rendering my vision at a distance at a disadvantage.

So, I turned it on 600 (setting 3) and sat it on a table bezel up. It became noticeably warm in a few minutes. The hot spot seemed to grow gradually smaller. Nothing sudden.
When I set it to 1000 (setting 4) after being on 3 for a while it actually ran cooler, still warmed the housing. But there does seem to be thermal protection built in.
Right now after having a chance to cool it is on setting 4 and if there is a change it's so gradual it's un-noticed.
Turning off, then back on does not result in it suddenly becoming a brighter output like so many other lights do.

I do not know what magic PK placed on the inner workings of the Warrior nor how much PowerTac remains. But who ever did what did a nice job of providing stable appearing output using primary batteries for 20-30 minute cycles.

StorminMatt · Apr 17, 2016

One possibility I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is P60. Generally speaking, few P60 modules employ such safeguards as stepdowns or low voltage protection. And there is certainly a wide variety of different modules with various emitters and emitter configurations to choose from. And with many low cost modules and hosts to choose from, it can be a fairly inexpensive way to go as well. P60 is certainly a good way to go if you want a configuration that is not embraced by the mainstream flashlight market.

With all of this said, keep in mind that P60 is certainly not the best configuration for dissipating heat. So if you decide to go this route, make sure you help increase heat dissipation by taking such steps as wrapping the module in foil so that it can better transfer heat to the host and possibly adding a bezel/head with better heatsinking.

Animalmother · Apr 18, 2016

I am pretty sure the Sunwayman G25c does stepdown, I can't imagine it not without overheating unless they have some magic. A user reported it doesn't step down after an hour but I can't find the forum and post where I read that. I'd take it with a grain of salt anyway. I decided to go with the Thrinite TC12 NW. You guys have helped me greatly, thank you.

One day, all the lights will be able to hold a regulated turbo mode. I also thought to myself that they might have some built in CPU type fan someday, possibly. Imagine if they had a CPU fan in it, I wonder if it would help cool it though...

Just thoughts to toy with, thanks again guys.

ven · Apr 18, 2016

There are the odd ones now with fans in (sure gopajti had one last year in some pics he took). If it becomes more popular in the future I don't know, I kind of see it as a potential failure or weakness added. With turbo, IMO there will always be a turbo as it is not designed for prolonged use. So a few years back and maybe a turbo of 3000lm, now that may be a high mode but now the turbo could be 5000lm as an example.

The big 5000lm will always be a selling figure, even if it will only last a minute it's still a 5000lm light and not a 3000lm one if makes sense(marketing and what sells generally).

As they say with engines , there is no replacement for displacement ! IMO with lights it's mass for now, only way we can run higher outputs for long periods..... If a light was the same size as a tk75 but a single 18650, it would run at 1000lm .....

Are there any 18650 lights that have no stepdown at 1000 lumens?

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