Making things harder on legal imigrants.

Bravo25

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I read in the paper this morning that the administration wants to raise the price for people to become legal imigrants. With all the problems we have with illegal imigrants, why make things easier on them, and harder on the ones that want to become legal citizens? Does this make any sense to anyone?
 

Zman

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Not to me, it doesn't make sense at all. Me and my wife were married in July of 03. She is a Canadian citizen and we married in the states. You wouldn't believe the hassle we are going through while working on LEGAL immigration. I'm over $1000 in so far, and had to refile because of some technicalities, and we still have gotten no where. Its a shame that the government is attempting to court what it thinks is a block of voters, even though they are illegal, but making it harder for those working to get in legally.
 

Greta

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I'm sorry... I don't think I've ever seen anywhere where a NON-citizen... whether here legally or illegally... could vote. Did I miss something? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

Zman

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I don't think you've missed anything Sasha. I'm not extremely knowledgeable on this stuff yet, but I'm sure I will be before its over. I thought in recent years Clinton was pushing to get the right to vote for illegals. You and many others here are more politcally 'in touch' than I am, and could surely fill me in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

James S

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The INS needs some serious reform. I have a very good friend who like you Zman who married a Canadian fellow. It took years before he was allowed to work here and years more before he was finally granted his green card and resident alien status. Another good friend of mine is married to a woman from the former soviet union /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (Latvia actually) She had been married to him for a couple of years and working through the paperwork and red tape when her daughter decided to get married in Italy. The INS told her that she couldn't leave the country. Well, she could leave, but they wouldn't let her back in for 10 years. So she was forced to miss her daughters wedding. Her green card came through 2 weeks after the wedding.

The INS is a nightmare. These people have no oversite, there is no one you can appeal to for sanity. They tell you no, give no reason and there is absolutely nothing you can do.

It's no wonder that people just stay here illegally.
 

Bravo25

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I was under the impression that if a US citizen marries someone from another country that they were considered legal here in the US. Is this not the case?
 

Greta

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Bravo... marriage cuts through some of the red tape but not much. I don't know if "legal" is the right terminology... they aren't "illegal" at that point but they still have to go through applying for "legal" citizenship and all that. It's still a freakin' nightmare though... no matter how you look at it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
 

James S

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I think if you marry them then they are allowed to stay for as long as the paperwork takes. But they are not given citizenship just cause they married you. They also are not allowed to get a job or even a drivers license until they are granted resident alien status and given a green card. Then they can go for full citizenship.
 

BB

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Regarding Voting,

In California, you are not allowed to even ask for a picture ID (as I remember). You just give your name and address, write them on a voting log, then vote.

I had a boss (from India) that had just got his citizenship and asked me what documents, besides his passport, he needed to vote. He was shocked when I told him no documents were needed at all.

But, then again, voter fraud has been around for decades(Chicago comes to mind). I would not single out the alien votes just yet...

Sasha, Sasha, Sasha, you are always at the leading edge of political thought /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif. Here is what we are facing:

non-citizen voting is the suffrage movement of the decade:

[ QUOTE ]
The apportionment of U.S. House seats by the Census is based on each state's total population — including illegal aliens and other non-citizens — relative to the rest of the country. Almost seven million illegal aliens were counted in the 2000 Census. California, a state in which one in seven residents is a non-citizen, gained six House seats. New York, Texas, and Florida also each gained a seat due to non-citizen residents. These nine seats came at the expense of Indiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Kentucky, and Utah.[33] Since the electoral votes which determine the winner in national presidential elections are based on the number of House and Senate seats each state has, the use of illegal aliens and other non-citizens in apportionment can also affect who occupies the White House.

The basis for counting non-citizens and illegals in the Census is that they are simply people living in a particular place and thus should have the same status as anyone else, questions of assimilation and allegiance are irrelevant. The same argument is being made in regard to allowing non-citizens to vote. One complicating factor in maximizing Latino political power is that so many are not U.S. citizens. "In some districts, you have a 65 percent Latino population but less than 35 percent with citizenship who are of voting age," says Denise Hulett, a redistricting specialist at MALDEF.[34]

The obvious answer for MALDEF and its allies is to allow non-citizens to vote. American University law professor Jamin Raskin has proclaimed "non-citizen voting is the suffrage movement of the decade" citing agitation for the granting of such rights by immigrants and their lobbyists in New York, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C.[35] In September, 2002, Washington mayor Anthony Williams said that non-citizens in the nation's capital should be allowed to vote in local elections, explaining, "I'm committed to expanding the franchise."[36] In September 2003, Michele Wucker, a senior fellow at the World Policy Institute (which has received grant money from the Ford Foundation), advocated letting non-citizens vote in New York as a way to "update our democracy for global times."[37] The same result can be reached without public debate or legislative change simply by lax enforcement of voter registration and the acceptance of false identification by political activists and politicians who feel they will benefit from expanding the franchise in this manner.

On December 11, 2003, Joaquin Avila, a former MALDEF president and chief counsel, published an issue paper under the auspices of the UCLA Chicano Studies Research Institute calling for granting the right to vote to non-citizen immigrants.[38] Avila argued "the main reason to support non-citizen voting is self-preservation. A society's interests are not furthered when a substantial number of its inhabitants are excluded from the body politic and have no meaningful way to petition for a redress of grievances through the electoral process." He set forth the standard leftist program for advancing this idea. "Conferences and symposiums should be convened to formulate strategies for empowering this politically excluded community" and then activists should go to court to challenge the constitutionality of current law. "Perhaps the right to petition for grievances incorporates a right to vote. For assistance, legal scholars can review the historical transition from the separate but equal doctrine formulated by the United States Supreme Court in Plessy v. Ferguson to its abandonment in Brown v. Board of Education. Such a transition can serve as a model for the development of legal strategies seeking to remove the citizenship requirement as a qualification for voting." Avila also likes to use the term "non-citizen disenfranchisement" to imply a prior right that has been taken away.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point, foundations, like the Ford Foundation, are going to take our country down, with tax free money.

-Bill
 

GJW

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When I registered to vote I was not asked for any ID at all.
Same thing when I moved and re-registered (can't you even do it on-line now?).

Not too far off-topic but has anyone else heard that Governor Arnold is now planning to grant driver's licenses to illegals?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif
 

Greta

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Geez... you guys really do live in a f.. er... messed up state! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif ... Here in AZ, you have to all but give up your first born for a voter registration card! My husband has been trying to get one for a couple years now and it keeps getting messed up and sent to the wrong address and he ends up registered in the wrong district and they won't let him vote in either district because his driver's license doesn't match the wrong address that they have on file!! We've tried to correct it a couple of times now but to no avail... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
 

Silviron

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Hate to disagree with Mistress Sasha, but unless things have changed a lot since I left Phoenix permanently a a few years ago, illegal aliens were voting regularly and often.

When I first registered in AZ as a Republican I was not even asked for an ID. Later, when I got mad at McCain and one of the other AZ Congress critters for supporting the Brady Bill, I marched immediately down to Libertarian Party Headquarters and registered and volunteered to work. They would accept a utility bill as ID / proof of residence. Do you think that someone registering voters at a DEMOCRAT registration booth at the State Fair, at a table outside an abortion clinic or in Basha's is going to ask for valid proof of citizenship?

Polling places on election day were not allowed to even ask for ID, per either an AZ Supreme Court or District Court order (I forget which it was, even though I raised hell about it when it came down). They asked your name and address. BUT, even if your name and address were not on the polls THEY COULD NOT REFUSE TO GIVE YOU A BALLOT.

Things may be different up in Havasu now, but that's how they were in Phoenix and Tucson as recently as three years ago. Or, maybe it is because your hubby is not the right color and won't scream "racism"?

(Personally, I think he ought to get 6 votes: 1 extra for regular Military service, 1 extra for being a member of a spec ops unit, 2 extra for being a working cop and one extra for being a property owner.)
 

raggie33

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i lost my wallet and haveing a hard hard time geting a new id. its very frustrateing. first they said get birth cirtifcate my dad found it then they say a hopsital birt cirtifcate is no good. anyone have a idrea how i can get id? i have ss card still it wasnt in walet at time
 

Silviron

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This part is a joke Raggie:
Just go to a Mexican Consulate and ask for a "Matricula Card". that's all you need for all goods, services and government benefits in many states (ncluding my own, thanks to our stinking Governor's Executive Order).

Seriously, though, it depends on what state you live in: some places you go to your BIRTH county's County Clerk's office, others they call it the "Office of Vital Records" or something like that. Some states you have to get it at the State Capital. Some places you can ask for it by mail, others you have to go in in person.

Call your local "driver's license" office. They can tell you where to start.

But it will be a real hassle anyway. They will probably ask you for three to five forms of other ID. SS card might work for one. A utility bill or rent receipt or property tax bill might count for another. School ID, Bank account or credit card might work for one. Failing all else, you may have to get notarized statements from three or more people who will swear that you are who you say you are and where and when you were born.

When I had to go through this twenty years ago, it took me four full days and 200 miles of driving to do it. OR, if you HAVE a valid US Passport. That is often all you need, so it can be worth getting even if you never plan to travel.
 

raggie33

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lol ,man im outa luck i was borne in ohio cant get there i live in georgia now.i dont have no credit card or anything esle but ss card. i was hopeing if my dad went with me to verify who i am it may help.we have same name. its aweful not haveing id .guesss im lucky i still have ss card. maybe my dad has more of my old stuff i hope so.this is what it says on the dmv webpage for ga but it aint toclear realy


Any person that is old enough to sign their name, or make a mark indicating their legal signature can apply to the DMVS for a identification card. You must provide acceptable proof of identification. You can apply for an identification card if your Georgia driver license is suspended or revoked. You do not have to surrender a Georgia identification card when you get a Georgia driver license or your Georgia driver license is reinstated.

A identification card contains the same personal information, photo, signature and special protection against alteration and fraud as a driver license. The cost of the Identification Card is $10.00

Applicant must furnish proof that he or she resides in Georgia and must provide a valid Georgia residence address. The following items are acceptable:

Utility bill with valid Georgia residence address;
Bank statement with valid Georgia residence address;
Rental contracts and/or receipts with valid Georgia residence address;
Employer verification;
Georgia license issued to parent, guardian, or spouse.

Applicant must surrender all previous driver's licenses, identification cards, and instructional permits to the Examiner.

First time applicants for a Georgia license or permit or identification card must show some acceptable form of personal identification that includes full name, month, day and year of birth. After verification of full name and date of birth, documents will be returned immediately to the licensee. The following items are acceptable but must be Original or a Certified Copy:
Original birth certificate (State issued) State Vital Statistics (Hospital birth certificates are not acceptable).
Certified copy of birth certificate (Issued from Vital Statistics with affixed seal)
Certificate of birth registration
Certified copy of court records (adoption, name changes or sex changes.)
Certified naturalization records
Immigration I.D. card Immigration and Naturalization
Valid Passport
U.S. citizens must furnish proof of citizenship. Non-U.S. citizens must present proper INS documentation. Documents presented must be either in English or translated into English by a translator approved by the Department. of Motor Vehicle Safety
 

Silviron

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Yeah, it should be a little easier and a little less hassle to get just a State ID card than it is to get a genuine birth certificate.

Although there ARE plenty of places in most big cities or even small towns on the southern border where you can get a passable FAKE birth certificate and Social Security Card for $200 to $600.
 

Greta

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You can call the Office of Vital Statistics in the city you were born in. (or the county if the city is too small) You can send them a check for however much they charge... mine cost me $5. They will mail you a certified copy of your birth certificate.

Here's an interesting twist to getting certain forms of ID. In order to get a passport, you have to show two forms of ID... SS card, driver's license, military ID, certified copy of birth certificate, etc. Ok... cool.

Well... last year, the IRS finally figured out that after 21 years, I had never changed my name on my SS card... so they withheld my tax refund until I changed it to my married name. Ok... fine. So I went to the SS office here and they required two forms of ID... AND a copy of my marriage license ... in order to get my SS card changed over. So I presented my driver's license and current passport and as I couldn't find my marriage license, I brought along my military ID and my marriage certificate from the church that I was married in. They took the marriage certificate... which really is nothing official at all... and they took my driver's license as identification of who I am now... but they wouldn't take my passport. Now... I have three passports. Two are expired... one current. One of them is in my maiden name... two in my married name. I had to have a SS card to get each of those passports... but none of those passports could be used to get a SS card... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif And of course, my military ID was no good because it didn't show who I was before... keeping in mind though that one must present a marriage LICENSE to get a military ID. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ... yep... pretty messed up system... good luck, raggie... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
 

raggie33

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this time im going to where the id around my neck on necklace . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifyou need id for so much stuff.
 

Silviron

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It's funny how people have different experiences. It was harder for me to get my birth certificate than it was to get my passport or even my Federal Firearms License or my state explosives license, even though I was getting it in person in the city (which was also the county seat) of my birth.

I had a military ID, Drivers license, all kinds of other ID and they still didn't want to give it up.... and this was LONG before anyone worried about terrorismin the US or illegal alien voting.

And I have never had anyone reject even an expired passport for any kind of ID confirmation other than for something related to motor vehicle operation.

I do understand about that maiden name thing. The EX went through that after her first divorce (from an active duty military) Took her five years (four after we were married) and lots of hassle to get everything changed, even though she was the one that always paid the bills, deposited the money in the bank accounts, filed the taxes etc. in her first marriage. That's why I had her keep all of her stuff in her maiden name when we got hitched. (I hope she appreciates not having to go through THAT again, now.)

Never had a bit of trouble getting a drivers license; The head clerk in the local DMV office for the past 30 years was an old family friend, so I never had to show any ID. She retired last year, so I may be in for a shock next time I renew. When I moved to AZ, all I had to show was my old NM license.
 

GJW

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My new employer wanted proof of citizenship and would only accept a social security card.
Mine was long lost.
Meanwhile I'd already started work and my new personalized shirts were still on order.
I walked in to the Social Security office wearing a borrowed work shirt with someone else's name emblazoned across the front to request a duplcate social security card in my own name.
No one blinked but I sure felt stupid.
 
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