Any thoughts about 3x/4x overlapping well flashlight getting the XHP35 treatment?

Hello. Thanks all at CPF. I realize that I'm rather a newb and don't know a lot about why this would or would not work well. But with the introduction of Acebeam's K70 I can't help but think that it might already be the next charted evolution to have 4x xhp35 flashlight. Does this make sense to you guys or is it just crazy talk?

I don't know too much in depth about dimensions regarding LED to reflector but when it went from 4x xm-l2 to 4x xp-l it didn't seem too problematic for our friendly neighborhood LED flashlight manufacturer's to figure out. They're all doing it now right?. I'm thinking a 4x xhp35 light with 2,000 lumens per LED would give a reasonable 8,000 lumens with say, a reasonable 1,500 meters of throw (ANSI Fl-1). Is there some big major hurtle to producing a light like this... ACEbeam? Any opinions or chiming in about why the specification would or would not work, conditions restrictions in China, whatever is appreciated. Thanks!

XHP35 is totally amazing...in smaller lights. The ZL MkIII HI XHP35 is one of the best damn lights I have ever had in over 20 years of collecting. From my experience any XHP emitter is going to give a similar tint which is awesome. Now...2000 lumens per XHP35 as far as I know is really pushing it. The hurtle? Warranty issues. The 35 as far as I know just is not designed to push that much. Hence you have the 50 etc. Technical hurdles abound for a 2000 lumen 35 light as well. Man...it will get scalding hot as soon as you turn it on etc....

Tried having a 2000 lumen custom build built with one of CPF's best modders and damn its a LOT of hurdles to go through..

CelticCross74 said:

XHP35 is totally amazing...in smaller lights. The ZL MkIII HI XHP35 is one of the best damn lights I have ever had in over 20 years of collecting. From my experience any XHP emitter is going to give a similar tint which is awesome. Now...2000 lumens per XHP35 as far as I know is really pushing it. The hurtle? Warranty issues. The 35 as far as I know just is not designed to push that much. Hence you have the 50 etc. Technical hurdles abound for a 2000 lumen 35 light as well. Man...it will get scalding hot as soon as you turn it on etc....

Tried having a 2000 lumen custom build built with one of CPF's best modders and damn its a LOT of hurdles to go through..

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I agree that it is totally amazing for a single emitter die. Maybe thinking about having three or four of them in a single flashlight is rushing things abit. However, that doesn't stop me from thinking just how freaking bright and throwy such a light would be? And of course for single cell size lights single emitter is the practical limit for xhp35. However with bigger lights having overlapping welled reflectors and 4 or 8x 18650, I think it would be doable. I know it would be roughly 4x the heat but were talking considerably more than 4x the aluminum for a big light and a lot more room for copper on the inside. I think it's already in the books, just no company CEO wants to put that light on the shelves when they are already making $ kicking xp-l lights out the door. Right now my single xhp35 K70 is at 2500 lumens and it doesn't seam to get very hot at all.

CelticCross74 said:

XHP35 is totally amazing...in smaller lights. The ZL MkIII HI XHP35 is one of the best damn lights I have ever had in over 20 years of collecting. From my experience any XHP emitter is going to give a similar tint which is awesome. Now...2000 lumens per XHP35 as far as I know is really pushing it. The hurtle? Warranty issues. The 35 as far as I know just is not designed to push that much. Hence you have the 50 etc. Technical hurdles abound for a 2000 lumen 35 light as well. Man...it will get scalding hot as soon as you turn it on etc....

Tried having a 2000 lumen custom build built with one of CPF's best modders and damn its a LOT of hurdles to go through..

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I don't have the Zebralight MKIII but I have been wanting that one since I first knew about it. Now, reading your comment, my interest has been refreshed. So, do you know any overdriven xp-l lights that ballpark with the Zebralight mkIII HI NW?

Also, did you ever get your custom 2000 lumen xhp-35 light built? What was the plan for that project? I assume you are talking about a single 18650 configuration. Was it a standard config or oversized reflector type? Thanks

Actually K70 does get pretty warm after 5-7 minutes or so. xhp35 @ 2500 lumens = stress city.

Still think 3X 2000 lumen xhp35 could be a practical model.

Custom XHP project is very slowly going through details. Gonna be based of a D Mag, copper heat sink and likely 2x32650 powered. After some conversation the XHP35 is just unrealistic for the output I want and we are now up to the 50. Am working with one of the best Mag modders there is (vestureofblood).

Oh no....I am a throw man really. The great thing about D Mags is that you can literally build anything out of them. Not going solely for throw basically just want a very well done very high output Mag that puts out a much much brighter kinda close to standard Mag beam. Going to be pricey but worth it.

As for rekindling interest in the ZL MkIII HI I still cannot say enough good things about it. Instant classic. For its tiny size it throws out about 15kCD which is amazing for its size. Beam profile is amazingly wide for such a small reflector. Beam has definition to its not just some wall of light. Cranks 1100+ OTF on max.

A 3 x XHP35 HI powered by 8 x 18650 would be interesting. It would be a monster.

I dont even think the k70 is pushed that hard(certainly not like the k60 at around 7a). Vinh left the xhp70 alone in the k60vn as it was pushed hard out of the box, the k70vn has a current bump and better focusing. Around 2600 OTF lumens iirc, its an impressive LED when sat in a large reflector. Not sure if the 4 cells are in series due to the voltage, to run 3 xhp35's it is going to probably take more than 1 driver(guessing...........maybe 1 for each LED) or at least a 6 cell light(8 better as BLUE suggests) to get some run time on high output and to be able to feed the LED's. Theoretically, ~9000lm(OTF) should be about it from the 3 xhp35's . Does not always work like that though, the xhp70 is good for 4500 OTF lumens yet the tk75vnQ70( with 4 of them) pushes around 15-16k and heat is an issue!

It would certainly interest me! however it would not beat say 1 large diameter/deep reflector for throw and a nice beam(without the wells which cause flower petals on the outer beam)

I would love an rc40vnX35:naughty: imagine 6 of them in a huge host to handle the heat and actually be able to run for longer than a few mins............................

Hopefully next year i can look back at this with a pic

Yeah, 3x xhp35 on a new engineering circuit with copper pipes running down lengthwise grooves in the aluminum body wall and into an additional copper sink at the tail. It would also have extra deep fins on the head and shallow 2mm fins down the entire length of the handle (think little sear marks on the hand). But...

But crazier things have hit the shelves for sure. Look at the TN36UT as a successor to the TN36. 3x Xhp70 in a pop can. With the manufacturing model for these lights, the overwhelming emphasis is on small iterations with a lot of hallabaloo to sell the same light only redesigned to some minute extent and make a $ bundle. I know it's a long road from R&D to online checkout, and I am not at all unsatisfied with the K70. Just can't help think that they cold make a light with 3 or even 4x xhp35 and it would be a monster.

I do like my small power houses(pop can as well) as for me they have a purpose, compact 8000+lm on tap for a few mins if needed and able to run 2000-2500lm for longer duration's. For me , if i am holding say a tm06 /tn36 or a tk75, might as well hold an rc40 and have the mass which allows good run times on the big grin output..................thats me though and admit my preferences change and are always on the change(for good or bad which is subjective anyway ). The tn36UTvn pushes near 13k lumens from the 3 x xhp70's= awesome performance.

The thought of maybe 6x xhp35 HI's would be amazing...........in here


Potential of 18,000lm @3k each, more realistic and even at 2500lm each ,a 15k lumen thrower=ground breaking! and a huge host to help with heat!

As much as i like compact(medium size) lights, for real usable high output then a HUGE host is required.

Sure vinh would know if possible and sure he would have by now if that easy, the voltage,driver/s and the cell layout would be the issue...................i would have thought anyway , but i dont know!

ven said:

I do like my small power houses(pop can as well) as for me they have a purpose, compact 8000+lm on tap for a few mins if needed and able to run 2000-2500lm for longer duration's. For me , if i am holding say a tm06 /tn36 or a tk75, might as well hold an rc40 and have the mass which allows good run times on the big grin output..................thats me though and admit my preferences change and are always on the change(for good or bad which is subjective anyway ). The tn36UTvn pushes near 13k lumens from the 3 x xhp70's= awesome performance.

The thought of maybe 6x xhp35 HI's would be amazing...........in here


Potential of 18,000lm @3k each, more realistic and even at 2500lm each ,a 15k lumen thrower=ground breaking! and a huge host to help with heat!

As much as i like compact(medium size) lights, for real usable high output then a HUGE host is required.

Sure vinh would know if possible and sure he would have by now if that easy, the voltage,driver/s and the cell layout would be the issue...................i would have thought anyway , but i dont know!

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Sounds good to me. 6x xhp35 would be a hotter item than even TN36UTVN. Get it? Hotter. But I like your thinking even if you, as I, don't know. However, Vinh might be busy to keep up with orders and everything else.

BTW I wasn't saying that the TN36UT is a bad light and without purpose. Just trying to point out that it was a bit underwhelming as a successor to the original TN36 and it is in fact 3x XHP70 in popcan which at one time may have seemed an absurd notion. Like the day before it was announced. However, maybe it wasn't meant to be a true upgrade from TN36 so much as a more practical reiteration of the original TN36, which I have in NW and love. It rather lights up all of everything and the periphery too. Vinh's TN36UTVN is insane.

Speaking of Vinh's lights, I recently got a T6VN and it's my new favorite, petals and all. To my delight it doesn't get very hot. After about 7 minutes straight, on turbo, it is just transitioning from very warm to hot. Amazing. The T6 host is the smallest of all the recent 4x XXX-X lights that have come out yet does very well thermally at about 5600 ANSI Lumens.

RC40 = less thermal interruption. Hhmmm. XHP35 x6 NOT ANYMORE. Maybe all I was trying to say is xhp35 is just a freak of engineering for all it's specs. But your right about voltage, drivers and cell layout. Would be a little funky starting out, to say the least.

Speaking of hot lights. Does anybody know anything about this XHP35 HI release? Says 2000 lumens with single 26650 or 26350 option. I'm not familiar with BTU.
http://www.banggood.com/BTU-PK26-CR...ens-Mini-Pocket-LED-Flashlight-p-1069719.html

The rc40 is around 8000lm give/take and 500kcd give take and even for prolonged periods it does not seem to get past warm, its a great host for sure. My needs/wants are pretty much satisfied right now, ample light for me to use
k70vn @570kcd ish and 2600lm

rc40vnT @500kcd ish


The T6vn is the best performer for size/output ratio for sure, fantastic package!

With out going into crazy boost driver set ups 4 parallel XP-L's with 4 parallel cells should be convertible into 4 parallel XHP-35's with 4 series cells. The XHP-35 was the first of the new sc5 technology Cree is putting into new led's. So a definite advantage is to be had. The Cree charts say you'll need 12.78 volts to push 1.0 amps and get 1771 lumens. The XP-L is drawing 3.46 volts at 3 amps to get 1251 lumens. Yes, the XHP35 is drawing 2 more watts but you get 520 more lumens at a better efficiency and not exceeding manufacturers max. No flashlight maker to my knowledge has gone this route yet and safety maybe the reason. 4 parallel cells are much safer than 4 in series. It's the bad cell in series that gets run raw and wants to go poof. Protected cells would be a must as would quality cells.

Wow the RC40VN is already in a 20,000 lumen configuration. Your 8,000 lumen thrower is very nice. It's interesting to compare it with the K70. I guess in any application where you are looking at specific things in isolation, off in the distance, the K70 would be a better option. However, raw performance the RC40VN is all over it. And that it stays cool is of course paramount for any type of extended application. Very cool pics.

@ texas cop I've actually been sick with vestibular neuritis for nearly two weeks now and having disabling vertigo. Thus, not going to try to get into too much math at the moment. But I like what your getting onto. Thanks, I'm going to come back to this one.

2500 lumens from an xhp35 is easy and not even close to being over driven to say so shows me your a noob. 5-7 min for a light to get hot is very good. my m43vn gets very hot in 30 seconds so thats a big difference, I would not be surprised if we see lights in the future pushing 3k lumens otf with a single xph35. remember when xml2 came out and at first the numbers were not that much greater then the xml. well a year later with better drivers we unlocked the potential. the xhp35 is still new and once we get better drivers for it we will be able to unlock more performance. this is a never ending cycle with led technology. another example is the xpg2. at first it seemed like 400 -500 lumens was all we could get out of it... now this led can hit 1000 lumens easy. Just give it some time and it could be the best led ever. 4 xhp35 in a tn40 or T6 would be a dream lol.

@Alex1234 An xhp35 at 2,500 lumens is overdriven. My T6VN gets hot only after about 5-7 minutes which is exceptionally surprising. The K70 is a 2,500 lumen single emitter light in a host that is 2" longer than T6VN, with twice as many cooling fins. Yet the K70 gets almost as hot, almost as fast as the T6VN @ 5,500 lumens. I think the conclusion here is that while 4x xhp35 might be doable, thermally, it would be along the lines of a TN36UTVN with about 15 good seconds before worrying about heat. Now I haven't personally done any hands on work as far as upgrading the performance of manufactured flashlights through modification. And while I'm just musing over speculation here, my belief topic wise, is that any 4x xhp35 light will need serious thermal redesign from all past iterations of manufactured consumer lights possibly prior to any other considerations. But yes, it's just dreamy to think about what a 4x xhp35 beam would look like in a TK75 style setup.

Impossible lumens if your up to it, here's some links and data for you. The Nitecore TM16 runs its 4-18650 batteries in series. These reviews should give you a working idea of the light. https://m4dm4x.com/2015/07/16/review-nitecore-tm16-part-1/ and https://m4dm4x.com/2015/07/18/review-nitecore-tm16-part-2/ Turbo mode was putting out 2.41 amps at 13.24 volts. Series the theoretical of the XM-L2 U2 is just over 950 lumens. Divide by 4 for the parallel XHP35 F2 HD and the theoretical is just over 1220 lumens. Needed forward voltage is 13.24 for the XM-L2, only 12.23 for the XHP35 HD. That's without any driver mods and 2.5 less watts used. You will need to mount the LED's on Copper boards. Your theoretical out put goes from 3800 to 4880 and using almost 8% less power. With a resistor mod on the driver you could push this way up. At 4 amps your out put would be 7084 lumens and still in the efficient side of the LED. Not all of this is theory the light was modded to 2s2p with 4 six volt XHP-50's and the output was a bit higher then heat put it in a nose dive. It's LED's are currently mounted on Aluminum and that just can't handle the heat.

texas cop said:

Impossible lumens if your up to it, here's some links and data for you. The Nitecore TM16 runs its 4-18650 batteries in series. These reviews should give you a working idea of the light. https://m4dm4x.com/2015/07/16/review-nitecore-tm16-part-1/ and https://m4dm4x.com/2015/07/18/review-nitecore-tm16-part-2/ Turbo mode was putting out 2.41 amps at 13.24 volts. Series the theoretical of the XM-L2 U2 is just over 950 lumens. Divide by 4 for the parallel XHP35 F2 HD and the theoretical is just over 1220 lumens. Needed forward voltage is 13.24 for the XM-L2, only 12.23 for the XHP35 HD. That's without any driver mods and 2.5 less watts used. You will need to mount the LED's on Copper boards. Your theoretical out put goes from 3800 to 4880 and using almost 8% less power. With a resistor mod on the driver you could push this way up. At 4 amps your out put would be 7084 lumens and still in the efficient side of the LED. Not all of this is theory the light was modded to 2s2p with 4 six volt XHP-50's and the output was a bit higher then heat put it in a nose dive. It's LED's are currently mounted on Aluminum and that just can't handle the heat.

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Wow, the higher amp cells are pushing more lumens than say NCR18650B even when all cells are running below there spec'd constant amps. A lot of interesting stuff here, and fantastic visuals, to say the least. Thank you for sharing this.