How's The Industry Doing - Room For Another Manufacturer???

Thought I'd post and see if anyone knows how the flashlight industry is doing overall and if it's buoyant or if it's being killed off by China producing cheaper goods causing companies like ARC to struggle / go under.

Is there room for another manufacturer and if so what would they have to produce to survive in a competitive market or has it already been done by OLight, Fenix, Coast or Zebra to name just a few??

Just interested to see what people's thoughts are and if if it's an already saturated marketplace??

Always room for more but more of the same... or the "Me Too" we can do without. I see an empty spot for lights between the better cheaper store lights at $10-$15 and the $20+ name brand ones you have to mail order. It almost feels like these companies want more profit than Rayovac gets we know they can make a $15 XML based 2-3 mode (no flash/strobe/sos) light that competes with the Rayovac 2AA but they don't wish to do so. I look at these companies and their products are getting more and more expensive we know they are raking in the money when they can mail you discount offers often for up to 25% off their products and after awhile mark down a $50 to $40 when sales are weak.

Working for an American company, who still has some manufacturing in the USA - but we use it mostly for repair rebuild work....

Our customers (small to large companies) don't particularly want something made in China - but their purchasing department will most often buy on price. Our major competition (European) manufactures in China & Brazil. For us to compete we need to manufacture in China. We tried for years to build something in China - very difficult. We purchased a LARGE machine shop that was copying ours and other manufacturers equipment. Put QC/QA in place, moved quite a few folks over from North America to emphasize quality.....

Our engineering is mostly in USA and some in Europe. R&D in both places.

So - obviously I been / am :drunk: (must stay away from custom B/S/T tonight).

Back on topic - Difficult for someone to differentiate themselves. I'd say in the last year or so Manker has kind of burst onto the scene with innovative / different products (for enthusiasts), but not necessarily that will be in brick & mortar stores.

I've also been cheating on CPF the last couple of months, okay I've said it. I've been over on BLF. For $25, shipped from China, the A6 absolutely rocks (okay - price is marked down to $26.95, but there is a coupon code that gets it to $25). For that money, best light out there. But it's 18650 based and won't get into brick & mortar.

Enough rambling...., off to Custom B/S/T Titanium & Exotic metals... (while I finish off the bottle of wine - Kirkland (Costco) Medoc - prefer Washington State, but for the $$...)


Subscribing to see who / what the replies to this thread are...

The industry is freaking banging. Surefire still has stupid huge government contracts, people are re discovering Maglite with the new 3rd Gens, the super customs like the Spy 007 etc still sell out for stupid high prices despite having the same tech they had when they started. The Chinese makers cannot make lights fast enough even the no name knock off brands sell out. Is there room for another manufacturer? There is LOTS of room for other manufacturers. You can make a profit selling Sky Ray clones stuffed with 7 Lattice Bright Cree knock offs that put out "40,000" lumens at $50 a light and they would cost a dollar to build each. Or you can actually try to innovate with new breed designs etc. itd cost more but as long as the electronics are good they will sell.

Interesting the 2 replies so far and totally understand with production costs how it'd be necessary to get it made in China (or somewhere with similar production costs) to be able to compete and interesting comment on the QC/QA which I've always considered the downside of manufacturing goods in China.

I'd love to produce something that has as good a name as say Zebralight but be able to sell the same quality at 60% of the price and if possible less but just establish a name for exceptionally good quality at a reasonable cost .... something everyone would want as their everyday workhorse and is affordable.

It wouldn't need to be 10,000 lumen output as that's always your trade off against real usability which in my opinion is run time ... maybe you have a boost button / mode for if you really need high output but I'd try and get really good run times at around 250 lumen and then circa 80 / 90 (most ... their next step down is 30/50) giving you a very usable light that will last a while but if you want to go down to 50 and make it last longer you can.

I recently had the pleasure of meeting the engineer that was in effect responsible for taking Seat cars which had an atrocious name pre VW buying them and totally re-designing them to a similar quality to VW (apart from the recent fuel emission fiasco) and in essence are superb cars in relative terms to the cost to what they were 12 yrs ago.

If anybody fancies joining me to try and create a range of 3 / 4 flashlights along those lines please do let me know

EDIT: One more reply has come in whilst I was typing so I can count .. I think :thinking:

as long as you have manufacturing done in the south you can just as easily produce lights in the US and make a profit. Do your homework and you can source all the parts for cheap in the US as well. Zebralight now makes lights in Texas as well as China. Most of the parts in Zebralights are US sourced. They make plenty of money. First you really need a good electrical design to design the shape of the light around. Zebralight has arguably the most talented design team in the industry the electronics in their lights are astonishingly sophisticated.

Start with the numbers you are going for output wise and get some design help. Mountain Electronics has a boatload of all quality electronics parts that are pretty cheap when bought in bulk. I myself would design a simple 5 mode light. Id splurge on XHP35 emitters and the associated electronics to run them right. I would basically design an up sized SC600 with 5 simple modes. Having the bodies molded CNC'd etc and anodization would be the most expensive part. As long as youre having a lot of bodies made and anodized the price drops a good bit.

End up costing about $12 per light to make. Charge $75 for them and youd come out pretty good.

I was talking to a Streamlight rep at SHOT show in Jan 2012 and his comment was "there sure are a lot of flashlight manufacturers". I'm sure that is in response to what he probably saw as competition that may be denting their revenue.

I personally don't think there is room for another manufacturer unless they can build something a bit more revolutionary than already exists. I for one am starting to fade on the hobby after being at it since the advent of the Philips Luxeon and the upgrade modules to exiting Maglites...........simply because there isn't anything that knocks my socks off anymore. The first thing I do with a new light is do a run time test to check efficiency and current regulation. With the best of them, I'm not seeing much improvement in efficiency. So that leaves it up to any advances in LED technology. There are a lot of companies that don't have so great of drivers. But they may off something in the order of features or what I would call gimmickry to attract buyers.

That doesn't work for me. I just want something that puts out a good beam, well regulated, decent mode spacing, etc. I'm finding myself being disenchanted with some of the newer stuff that has been coming out simply because it can't meet my expectations or improve upon what I already have.

hiuintahs said:

I just want something that puts out a good beam, well regulated, decent mode spacing, etc. I'm finding myself being disenchanted with some of the newer stuff that has been coming out simply because it can't meet my expectations or improve upon what I already have.

Click to expand...

^^ THIS. ^^

What's been interesting is to see many of the so-called "budget" light makers creeping upwards in price over the last few years, after flooding the market. Honestly, as the prices increase, I'd rather support U.S.-based companies, manufacturing, and warranties. I don't need five strobe modes or a barn-burner, but I would like good regulation and build quality.

Just a hobbyist here, but I think there's a real opening for small, single "AA" and "AAA" battery flashlights and headlamps that are American made at a decent price. I think SureFire showed that it can be done with their new Titan AAA series. I'm hoping that they (or another company) continue the trend.

I would still go for an up sized SC600 look 3-5 basic modes no strobe thermally regulated. Possibly a side by side 2xAA/14500 light. Budget light makers have been creeping up their prices over the last few years. I really like the current trend of powerful small lights like the S1,S1A,Jet II Pro, RC09, PD25 etc. they vanish into your pocket are very well made and put out plenty of lumens. SC600 MkIII HI is nearly impossible to top for a small light. The bar is really high for small lights now. Armytek is starting to put the XHP35 in all their lights now I am sure other makers will follow.

Id love to make a variable focus light thats as easy to adjust as a Coast yet has all the features of a solid Fenix etc. A side switch or even magnetic ring, put enough O rings in it to make it IPX8, power source could be 3xAA/14500. Emitter would just be a good latest batch XML2.