1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

Joe Talmadge · Oct 13, 2016

I'm looking for a great do-everything light. For me, do-everything = EDC, emergency, defensive use

EDC
- Small enough to carry comfortably for EDC, which for me, means a 1" (25.4mm) body and head. If you have the perfect light but it's got a 34mm head, not interested.
- Can run 18650 or 2x123A -- want it to be easy to feed it
- Instant access to low is a nice to have.

Emergency use: earthquakes, power outages, etc
- Has a low low mode that can run for at least 24 hours straight, preferably longer
- Obviously, I'd like an intermediate mode or two, but I have no religion around spacing, etc.

Defensive use: standard criteria --
- Momentary forward rear clicky
- I have to be able to use momentary as much as I want, without the light changing modes: that is, there must be another way to change modes than the main rear momentary switch
- Must be a way to make the light come on in its highest mode (high or turbo or whatever it's called)
- Competitive lumens and candlepower for a light this size: a very low bar would be >700 lumens and >20kcd (this means a HI emitter, I believe)
- There can NOT be: any type of rear switch delay, or too short a throw on the switch so that momentary is difficult under stress

You'd think this would be easy but I'm actually a bit stuck. Here's some options and why they don't hold up:
- Nitecore P12GT: Switch delay is beyond unacceptable
- Eagletac DX30LC2: I thought this one would be it, but the entire series has switches that are so short, for practical purposes they can't be used in momentary under stress
- Klarus XT2C XPL-HI: This should be the one, but somehow Klarus's lacks any ability to focus an XPL-HI. Specs say a pathetic 14.7kcd, which every other manufacturer can nearly get with an XML2

I haven't found any other vendor that quite matches all the specs, either. Two vendors with poor switch design/execution, and one which can't figure out how to focus a beam.

Any other ideas? Any other 1"-head&body xpl-his on the way?

Grizzman · Oct 13, 2016

The head is a bit larger than 1", but the Malkoff MD2 with High/Low ring is an absolutely outstanding light. I keep one in my front left pocket many more days than I don't. If you wear skinny jeans, it may not work...but that's a problem with your jeans, not the MD2.

It meets every criterion except 700 plus lumens. As stated today in another thread, the output that it does have doesn't step down due to excessive heat after a few minutes to impress the Internet. The standard M61 outputs 325 lumens for the entirety of the 1 1/2 hour specified run time....then starts a very long reduction in output.

The reflector was designed by Don McLeish, and it works fabulously with the XP-G2. The switch is a McClicky, designed by...yep, Don. The switch is recessed in the tailcap so it'll tailstand. If you'd rather it protrude for easier access, any tailcap designed for the Surefire C/P/Z series will work.

You've been around here long enough that this recommendation shouldn't surprise you.

I'm sure others will be along soon to agree with me.

Grizzman · Oct 14, 2016

The low profile head is a bit larger than 1", but an Elzetta Bravo with M61 drop-in and High/Low tailcap is an absolutely outstanding light. I keep one in my front left pocket on a regular basis. If you wear skinny jeans, it may not work...but that's a problem with your jeans, not the Bravo.

To get 18650 compatibility, it will need to be purchased by Oveready. It meets every criterion except 700 plus lumens. The output that it does have doesn't step down due to excessive heat after a few minutes to impress the Internet. The standard M61 outputs 325 lumens for the entirety of the 1 1/2 hour specified run time....then starts a very long reduction in output.

The switch has a long travel in momentary operation before it latches for constant output. Using my standard Harries hold, I am not able to click the switch. I must slightly re-position my thumb. This is an ideal situation, IMHO.

The reflector was designed by Don McLeish, and it works fabulously with the XP-G2.

You've been around here long enough that this recommendation shouldn't surprise you.

I'm sure others will be along soon to agree with me.

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

Thanks Grizz! But even if I ignored the fact that it doesn't meet the size, lumens, and candlepower constraints, the single tailswitch means it's either a single-mode (that is, not as useful for edc and especially emergency use) or else it changes modes with each click of the tailcap (completely unacceptable for tactical use)... But I can definitely see its merit as an amazing defensive use light in single mode, or EDC in multimode. I have a single-mode malkoff dropin in a surefire e2e body with a valiant head, next to my bed, it's a killer solution, just doesn't fly at all for the triple-duty light I have in mind

CelticCross74 · Oct 14, 2016

I feel like the only person that got a P12GT with no switch delay. Being paranoid I changed the rubber boot with a shorter PD35 boot for more tactile feel. I say go with the GT. It is the best P12 yet. It is the first thermally regulated P12 and has stouter electronics than the past P12's due to the power requirements for the XP-L HI emitter. I swear the anodizing is better as well. If you get one with switch delay I will happily send you a couple shorter boot covers. I have a huge parts box and countless switch boots...

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

CC: Hell of an offer, thanks! I'm mulling over that P12... I'm going to wait out responses for other multi-switch, 1" body+head, xxx-HI emitter lights, but I suspect there aren't any. Playing the P12GT lottery is an option, I suppose, but sooooo many people have gotten lights with delays. I don't see how the short boot cover addresses that...

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

Olight M1X Striker, updated w/ an XPL HI (unlight Klarus, Olight knows how to focus these things) and make the strike bezel removable = perfect

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

Another option, Fenix PD35TAC: cannot reach the required intensity (candlepower). Ironically, the "tactical" mode UI is completely unsuited for tactical use, but if I'm understanding it right, the Outdoor mode -- provided you remember to shut the light off in turbo, so it turns back on again in turbo via mode memory -- fits the bill.

CelticCross74 · Oct 14, 2016

are those huge steel teeth on the Striker removable? No it is not I just took a look. It is also on a timer not thermally regulated. Only 9k CD. Those big crenulated teeth must put out some big jagged artifacts around the beam profile. The Fenix TK20R comes out on the 18th of this month. Its head is a bit bigger at 34mm vs the P12GT's 25.4mm but it is thermally regulated, XP-L HI 24k CD, has built in micro USB charging built in with the micro USB port waterproof even with the flap open. It is also Fenix first IP68 light with a dual body battery tube construction. I will have mine on Saturday as I pre ordered one. It also has a crenulated strike bezel nothing like the Striker but it is there.

Oh yw itd be no problem to send out a couple short boots I am always willing to help a fellow CPF'er out.

Grizzman · Oct 14, 2016

The 10 lumen low level of the Malkoff is engaged by slightly loosening the head. The Elzetta does the same by slightly loosening the tailcap. The tail switch doesn't change the output level, only turning it on and off.

Good luck with your search.

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

CelticCross74 said:
are those huge steel teeth on the Striker removable? No it is not I just took a look. It is also on a timer not thermally regulated. Only 9k CD. Those big crenulated teeth must put out some big jagged artifacts around the beam profile.

Right you are sir! That's why I called out that it needs an XPL HI (properly focused -- still disappointed w/ Klarus), and a removable bezel. I'd prefer thermally regulated over timer-regulated, but at this point, beggars can't be choosers, and that's not a deal-killer for me. In both utility and defensive use, I tend to use the highest mode only in flashes anyway.

The Fenix TK20R comes out on the 18th of this month. Its head is a bit bigger at 34mm vs the P12GT's 25.4mm but it is thermally regulated, XP-L HI 24k CD, has built in micro USB charging built in with the micro USB port waterproof even with the flap open. It is also Fenix first IP68 light with a dual body battery tube construction. I will have mine on Saturday as I pre ordered one. It also has a crenulated strike bezel nothing like the Striker but it is there.

Yep, if I go with the next size up -- w/ 34mm head -- there's loads of good options. That just isn't EDC carryable for me, unfortunately.

Oh yw itd be no problem to send out a couple short boots I am always willing to help a fellow CPF'er out.

Totally appreciate the offer! But still not sure what the short boots do, in the case of a switch delay? It doesn't make the switch delay go away, right?

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

Grizzman said:
The 10 lumen low level of the Malkoff is engaged by slightly loosening the head. The Elzetta does the same by slightly loosening the tailcap. The tail switch doesn't change the output level, only turning it on and off.

Good luck with your search.

Oh! I missed that completely... just saw the single switch and assumed. Still not quite at the light levels I'm hoping for, but certainly worth a look regardless, especially if you're prioritizing quality over high-high performance

Grizzman · Oct 14, 2016

1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

I've got a FourSevens QT2L-X (or whatever it's called) that does 700 plus lumens, for about a minute, before stepping down to a bit more than 300. It also changes between high and low by loosening or fully tightening the head.

It's significantly smaller than the Malkoff, which is why it can't maintain the output. It gets hot very quickly.

It's been reliable so far, but if I'm going to war, it's not coming along.

It's also been discontinued, but likely still available via alternate sources.

Joe Talmadge · Oct 14, 2016

Re: 1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

Grizz... I've actually been hoping FourSevens would build something that tickles my fancy for a long time. That QT2L-X w/ burst mode works on all fronts, except it doesn't hit the minimum intensity requirements ... running off an XML. If they upgrade to XPL HI and properly focus it, that'd be a winner

CelticCross74 · Oct 14, 2016

Re: 1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

the shorter boots put more tension on the switch piece itself. There is no more "squish" and the switch presses easier and a touch quicker

Blades · Oct 14, 2016

Have you looked at the FourSevens Smart Quark?
I answered your post and hopefully it is helpful.

Joe Talmadge said:
I'm looking for a great do-everything light. For me, do-everything = EDC, emergency, defensive use

EDC
- Small enough to carry comfortably for EDC, which for me, means a 1" (25.4mm) body and head. If you have the perfect light but it's got a 34mm head, not interested. yes, diameter: 0.86 in
- Can run 18650 or 2x123A -- want it to be easy to feed it -- Not sure if it holds a 18650
- Instant access to low is a nice to have. -- yes

Emergency use: earthquakes, power outages, etc
- Has a low low mode that can run for at least 24 hours straight, preferably longer -- yes
- Obviously, I'd like an intermediate mode or two, but I have no religion around spacing, etc. -- yes

Defensive use: standard criteria --
- Momentary forward rear clicky --yes
- I have to be able to use momentary as much as I want, without the light changing modes: that is, there must be another way to change modes than the main rear momentary switch -- yes - side switch
- Must be a way to make the light come on in its highest mode (high or turbo or whatever it's called) -- yes
- Competitive lumens and candlepower for a light this size: a very low bar would be >700 lumens and >20kcd (this means a HI emitter, I believe) -- yes on the lumens
- There can NOT be: any type of rear switch delay, or too short a throw on the switch so that momentary is difficult under stress I have been playing with my smart Quark a few weeks and I don't notice a delay

You'd think this would be easy but I'm actually a bit stuck. Here's some options and why they don't hold up:
- Nitecore P12GT: Switch delay is beyond unacceptable
- Eagletac DX30LC2: I thought this one would be it, but the entire series has switches that are so short, for practical purposes they can't be used in momentary under stress
- Klarus XT2C XPL-HI: This should be the one, but somehow Klarus's lacks any ability to focus an XPL-HI. Specs say a pathetic 14.7kcd, which every other manufacturer can nearly get with an XML2

I haven't found any other vendor that quite matches all the specs, either. Two vendors with poor switch design/execution, and one which can't figure out how to focus a beam.

Any other ideas? Any other 1"-head&body xpl-his on the way?

Joe Talmadge · Oct 15, 2016

Hi Blades,

Thanks for your reply, another close one -- but not quite there -- from four sevens. It won't run 18650, which puts it out of the running right away. Otherwise, it's the xml2 that doesn't quite make it. A couple of years ago, those were competitive, but no reason to settle for 13k-ish cd today. Although I imagine the lights mentioned above from Olight, Fenix, and 4sevens (and Malkoff?) will get an xpl hi eventually. It's a race between whether they'll update their lights first, or if Nitecore, Klarus, or Eageltac will correct what seem like design deficiencies first...

Grizzman · Oct 15, 2016

A conversation with Vinh may be necessary to get 20K CD from a less than 1" reflector. A 950 lumen PFlexPro drop-in with XP-L and a smooth 1" reflector only delivers about 13K CD. He may be able to do an emitter swap and amperage boost to a light that meets your other needs. I'm not sure if it would support CR123s at this output level.

I didn't mention it before, but Malkoff's M61HOT uses an XP-L HI behind an optic to deliver 500 lumens and a rated 18,000 CD. The head is the same diameter as the standard MD2 (with a larger opening), at ~31 mm. They don't come with High/Low rings installed, but I've been running mine with one since I bought it.

The Klarus XT2C XP-L Hi seems to have a relatively heavily orange peeled reflector. This will seriously hamper the reflectors ability to focus the light for maximum CD. It's quite likely that its output exactly meets their goal. Not everyone, me included, wants a pencil thin 20,000 CD beam with likely minimal spill, in an EDC sized light. I prefer a usefully wide spot and bright spill....especially when low mode is active. Sweeping a small spot around (since the dim spill disappears entirely on low...think Surefire LX2) looking for something you dropped in the yard is far from ideal.

Joe Talmadge · Oct 15, 2016

Grizz... okay, that's something to think about... I had thought 20kcd in a 1" reflector wasn't too high a bar. If they are to be believed -- and I realize manufacturers tend to fib a tiny bit

-- Eagletac DX30LC2 gets 20k with a 22mm diameter light that's only 126mm long, and on a light with 2 switches (so, in other words, not a lot of room for a reflector), and Nitecore's dual-switch 25mm/140mm P12GT is 26kcd. And these are both lights with side AND tail switches, so a lot of that length is taken up with room for switches. Eagletac seems to have always been particularly adept at good throw, but there's Nitecore with a claimed 26kcd too.

Going with a Vinh is definitely not a bad idea... but I was hoping there might already be a production light out there that met the specs, and I feel both Nitecore and Eagletac are just a better-designed switch away from being there...

Agree that running on 2x123A might result in lower output, I like having the option but generally run strictly on 18650s these days.

Loomun · Oct 15, 2016

Joe Talmadge said:
Another option, Fenix PD35TAC

What he said.

Fenix PD35TAC

Length: 5.5″ (139mm)
Width: 1″ (24mm)
Operates on two CR123A batteries or a single 18650

1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

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