In case of an EMP - Does my Computerized Flashlight Still Work?

Arclight01

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
6
So just about every light manufacturer has moved to LED technology, including for lights used in your home.

If an EMP happens, would the electronics in all LED lights and flashlights fry?

Maybe the metal body of the flashlight would act as a faraday cage and protect the microchip's?

Or would we all just go dark and wish we had an old D cell incandescent?
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
I seriously doubt there will be very many (if ever) EMP devices set off that are not nuclear bombs (with accompanying radiation) making those whose devices are affected by an EMP either dead or soon dead by a nuclear blast such that only those outside of the blast range would survive long enough to use the "orphaned" devices.
 

Thetasigma

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Messages
1,197
Location
Michigan, USA
For an EMP such as a purpose-built high altitude detonation, the answer is maybe. Information on these types of events is confused between different types of EMP pulses, and the more useful information, is classified.

For a "slow" pulse like a geomagnetic event like a solar storm, flashlights would probably be alright provided that they are not micro-usb charged and plugged in at the time, the nature of this type of event needs long length conductors such as the power grid to conduct and generate a surge, while things like a car or smaller are unlikely to be affected provided they aren't plugged into the grid at the time of the event.
 

vadimax

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,273
Location
Vilnius, Lithuania
Whuh? You don't believe the media?

I keep oil lamps and candles around, just in case.

And this is good, but if power supply fails, you will learn that first, not journalists :) They will only present it as the start of WW3, alien invasion, the Sun shutdown, whatever.
 
Last edited:

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,467
Location
Dust in the Wind
I wouldn't know if journalists know or not. I haven't watched network TV since about 2003.

But anyway if one does go off I'm sure my neighbors will let me know. lol. If so I'll see if my LED flashlights work.
 

iamlucky13

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
1,139
The EMP discussion is convoluted, and filled with misinformation. There's not much hard info out there beyond the general principles of how EMP's are generated. What hard info exists is mostly classified. As an example of the difficulty discussing the topic, there was a congressional report on the topic a decade or so ago that quite a few scientists dismissed as vague and alarmist. The authors, who themselves were scientists, responded with an answer that could be summed up as, "the detailed information is classified, so we want you to commit to spending billions of taxpayer dollars on private contractors to mitigate this with no way of independently verifying it is actually necessary."

From the more credible discussions I've found of it over the years, the concern for our power grid is more significant from solar storms than nuclear EMP attacks. The latter can not be ignored, but the sun is capable of disrupting the earth's magnetic field more severely and over a larger area than the former. Even so, we're better prepared than the media claims we are - one of the worst solar storm events since the famed Carrington event happened in 1989. It affected millions of people in Canada due to the particular vulnerability of that region, but the overwhelming majority of them got their power back within hours with only a few scattered incidents of permanent infrastructure damage to repair. Another Carrington Event would be significantly worse, but far from civilization ending. The testing the military did (both ours and the USSR) with nuclear EMP's in the 1960's showed real, far from disastrous effects, although the media loves to talk about a single string of badly designed streetlights on Oahu being burned out hundreds of miles away from the detonation. The effects in the USSR were reportedly more significant, because they actually tested over (sparsely) populated areas.

A solar storm is no direct threat to small electronics, but a nuclear EMP is. However, flashlights, with their relatively simple controllers designed for power handling (naturally more robust against the kinds of effects we're talking about than cutting edge processors) and short conductor lengths are inherently one of the less vulnerable electronic items we have around us. And as you observed, the typical aluminum body should actually act as a pretty decent Faraday cage, reducing the intensity of an EMP by several orders of magnitude.

I'm not saying I can prove it is no concern, but I'd be more worried about a computer or smartphone than my flashlights.

Even if a fancy current controlled flashlight might be vulnerable, which I question, a simple LED light with only a current limiting resistor should be extremely robust - probably comparable to an incandescent light.

I seriously doubt there will be very many (if ever) EMP devices set off that are not nuclear bombs (with accompanying radiation) making those whose devices are affected by an EMP either dead or soon dead by a nuclear blast such that only those outside of the blast range would survive long enough to use the "orphaned" devices.

For an effective large scale EMP attack, a nuke has to be set off above the atmosphere. That puts it well out of the range where the blast effects or direct radiation are a significant concern, but the EMP effects can potentially extend hundreds of miles from the epicenter.

Non-nuke EMP weapons (The USAF, for example, has tested a cruise missile payload called CHAMP) would have far, far, far smaller effective ranges. We're talking from a single building to possibly a couple city blocks.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,467
Location
Dust in the Wind
The media has been saying Florida will be under water in 5 years since the 1970's.

They like to cite an island off the Va/Md coast is now underwater, but they leave out the part where the last residents left in the 1800's because... it was sinking and eroding.

So it is best to pay attention to what they are saying on the surface then research the details. Afterall they did correctly predict cold weather in Alaska last winter.

Either way this is a fun topic.
 

irongate

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
372
Location
Rochester Mn.
I'm going to take a nap here and keep one of my flashlights close to me-which one I don't know to many to choose from and maybe a oil lamp also ready to go just in case the sun decides to send a pulse this way.
Great Topic with everything else going on folks-LOL
 

vadimax

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,273
Location
Vilnius, Lithuania
I'm going to take a nap here and keep one of my flashlights close to me-which one I don't know to many to choose from and maybe a oil lamp also ready to go just in case the sun decides to send a pulse this way.
Great Topic with everything else going on folks-LOL

Be careful. If journalists find out that you sleep with an oil lamp nearby they'll predict that oil vapor will poison your brain irreversibly ;)

I am already sick telling my mom not to read all that crap in the newspapers.
 

StarHalo

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
10,927
Location
California Republic
From the last "When EMPs Attack" thread:

We've covered this topic before (it just sounds like a CPF topic, doesn't it) and it turns out that it would be possible for a hypothetical ICBM-armed enemy to do an EMP-specific attack: Setting off a warhead ~120 miles above Los Angeles, for example, would be sufficient to blackout not just the West Coast, but *everything west of the Rockies*, with no blast, heat, or (nuclear) radiation damage at all.

The catch is the aforementioned ICBM - only the countries that can afford the most advanced defense systems have them, so this technique isn't possible for "terrorists" (who are more likely to use a dirty bomb) or even the North Koreans (would use a standard blast nuclear attack), though China could do it.

If you're truly distressed by remote possibility of an EMP attack, or you just want to try a fun project, you can build your own EMP-proof box. Just grab any container (Pelican case, cigar box, even a cardboard box) and some copper screening (available at your local crafts store) - coat the entire exterior of the container with the copper screening, ensuring the screening touches at the seams/openings and there's no bare spots. That's it. Place a small radio tuned to a strong local station inside the box, and if all it receives is static when the box is closed, it works - you now have a fully EMP-proof utility box. :thumbsup:
 

Timothybil

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
3,662
Location
The great state of Misery (Missouri)
The authors, who themselves were scientists, responded with an answer that could be summed up as, "the detailed information is classified, so we want you to commit to spending billions of taxpayer dollars on private contractors to mitigate this with no way of independently verifying it is actually necessary."
This reminds me of the TEMPEST program. TEMPEST is a set of standards that has several goals: Keep people from being able to intercept/overhear data on electronic equipment (Remember the stories about being able to sit in the parking lot and see someone's CRT screen.), protect electronic devices from influence by outside influences, and protect electronic equipment from things like EMP bursts. In order to protect the program, the standards are secret and not available to the general public. This means that if one wants to develop TEMPEST rated gear, the requirements the equipment has to meet are not available to design to. So the designer takes a best guess as to how to design to those goals. One then submits the equipment to some very expensive testing to see if it pases, BUT only if one has a contract to provide said equipment to an end user. Back in the late 80s I worked on a government bid that needed TEMPEST certified video projectors (think war room). There was only one certified vendor, a third party that fitted out one of the leading projectors of the day. Unfortunately, they were currently involved in a lawsuit with the vendor of their projectors, so their product was not available. My boss finally found an outfit that thought they had a pretty good chance to get the engineering right, and were willing to commit to making the attempt, IF we got the contract so they could submit product to be tested. You can imagine that the price of that equipment was rather a lot higher than the already certified equipment, due to their having to CYA the possible expenses involved in reiterative testing. And then some people wonder why equipment sold to the government is so much more expensive than similar things in the marketplace.
 

Illumina

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
11
And as you observed, the typical aluminum body should actually act as a pretty decent Faraday cage, reducing the intensity of an EMP by several orders of magnitude.
If the flashlight is using the aluminum body as the ground, would the body be acting as a Faraday cage, or as an antenna?
 

eraursls1984

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
1,434
Location
Tallahassee, FL.
The media has been saying Florida will be under water in 5 years since the 1970's...
Back in the 70's many papers (who claim global warming now) were saying we were headed for the next ice age.

In the grand scheme of things we have just barely begun to recover from the last mini ice age from 20,000 years ago. We are currently cooling, and will be for 20-30 years at which point we'll start to warm again for 20-30 years.
 
Last edited:

StarHalo

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
10,927
Location
California Republic
Back in the 70's many papers (who claim global warming now) were saying we were headed for the next ice age.

In the grand scheme of things we have just barely begun to recover from the last mini ice age from 20,000 years ago. We are currently cooling, and will be for 20-30 years at which point we'll start to warm again for 20-30 years.

You must index the heat content of an entire global system to determine overall warming or cooling. And this is OT.

I'm still not sure why any of the solder-gun-set here hasn't built a small EMP device to test all these theories, the YouTube videos make it look rather uncomplicated aside from the specificity of the antenna design..
 
Top